Electric cars and state and federal gas taxes?

[clovis]

With all the talk of electric and hybrid cars, how do you think the states and federal government will tax us when the majority of cars sold are either hybrids or total electric?

It seems to me, that there will be a day that there will be a significant drop in fuel tax revenues should electric and or hybrid cars take over the marketplace.

Thoughts???

[clovis]

Interesting comparison of state fuel taxes:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_taxes_in_the_United_States

[Ace-Garageguy]

The thing about the fuel taxes is that, of course, they are fairly apportioned to road users based on actual use. More miles driven, more road use, more fuel used = more taxes paid at the pump.

With the widespread use of onboard data collection technology (OBD II etc), it would be relatively easy to monitor electric vehicle usage and charge a "road use tax" based on miles traveled. Pretty easy to shut your vehicle down if you fail to pay your tax bill, too, through a system similar to OnStar.

It would be tricky otherwise to add a fairly-apportioned highway tax to electricity used for charging cars, especially ones charged at home. After all, how do you separate out the power used to charge your car from the power to run your washing machine, and only tax the car part? Maybe a dedicated plug with a tax-meter attached to it??

Right now with many jurisdictions offering tax-incentives to buy alternatively-powered vehicles, it's essentially a negative tax (you know, either you don't pay or you get money back)...but that will end when enough folks have made the switch. Governments WILL get their cut. After all, that's their whole raison d'etre.

Edited September 4, 2014 by Ace-Garageguy

[Quick GMC]

they are already trying to implement a sun tax for solar panels, so I'm sure they'll think of something.

[Joe Handley]

I'm thinking that when EV sales hit that level, increase the licensing fees on them in a way that would compensate for the loss in gas taxes with a sliding scale based on what you drive. Leave taxes for diesel and gas/flex fuel vehicles as is or something reasonable, raise it a lower amount on more combustion motivated hybrids (Toyota, Honda, Ford, some GM) than you would on cars like the Volt and ELR (mostly electric with an onboard generator), and higher still on pure electrics like the Leaf and Teslas.

[Harry P.]

Don't you worry... if politicians are good at anything, it's figuring out new ways to tax us.

I'm sure they'll come up with something...

[Mike Kucaba]

That's right I read where they are going to drop all the paper work and just reach into your wallet and take what they want...

OH wait.... that's what they're doing now!

[martinfan5]

Its going to be long time before any of us need to worry about it IMHO

The infrastructure needed for 100% electric cars isnt even in place yet.

We are going to see all cars become hybirds before all cars are replaced with by electric cars

[Craig Irwin]

Here in Madison County Indiana we have a wheel tax, and a motorcycle pays more than an 18 wheel simi truck. Real fair set up.

[Ace-Garageguy]

Here in Madison County Indiana we have a wheel tax, and a motorcycle pays more than an 18 wheel simi truck. Real fair set up.

That really bites. Do you happen to have a link to that particular law?

[Joe Handley]

Here in Madison County Indiana we have a wheel tax, and a motorcycle pays more than an 18 wheel simi truck. Real fair set up.

Why?

A semi is going to do way more road damage in 5 years than a motorcycle ever will.

[Craig Irwin]

Why?

A semi is going to do way more road damage in 5 years than a motorcycle ever will.

True, but the powers that make such calls say that trucks make jobs, ect, I think it has something to do with donations during election years.

[Ace-Garageguy]

True, but the powers that make such calls say that trucks make jobs, ect,...

Boy, don't let the Fed find out that trucks make jobs. Congress will pass a law requiring EVERY business, no matter how small, to buy at least one tractor-trailer rig. Or pay a fine.

[Mike Kucaba]

I decide to research this wheeltax and got an eyeful!! Seems like Madison County, Indiana is a hot bed of political hijinx and crony-capitalism.

http://www.indianaeconomicdigest.net/main.asp?SectionID=31&SubSectionID=201&ArticleID=69920

In some other articles it appeared that the tax WAS repealed for one year . This effort was attributed to a Tea party republican group.

[Mopar - D]

I'm glad I don't live in Nevada where they are going to pay for a new battery plant with there tax money so Tesla can make more money off tax payers.

[Ace-Garageguy]

I'm glad I don't live in Nevada where they are going to pay for a new battery plant with there tax money so Tesla can make more money off tax payers.

Do you have ANY idea how much of HIS OWN money Mr. Tesla, Elon Musk, how many MILLIONS of $$ of his OWN money the man has spent trying to change the world (to fix things that greedy moron businessmen and idiot politicians have almost hopelessly screwed) because everyone else just talks and talks and talks...and does NOTHING?

That battery plant and Tesla's associated solar collector plants will make THOUSANDS of jobs for AMERICANS in AMERICA. GOOD PAYING JOBS. MAKING STUFF IN AMERICA.

I guess you'd prefer we just keep pumping money into the CHINESE economy, eh??

[Craig Irwin]

I decide to research this wheeltax and got an eyeful!! Seems like Madison County, Indiana is a hot bed of political hijinx and crony-capitalism.

http://www.indianaeconomicdigest.net/main.asp?SectionID=31&SubSectionID=201&ArticleID=69920

In some other articles it appeared that the tax WAS repealed for one year . This effort was attributed to a Tea party republican group.

Research the reservoir they are trying to force down our necks! (I wanted to say up our, well...)

[Harry P.]

I agree with Bill. We need more Elon Musks, Steve Jobs, etc.

[clovis]

I decide to research this wheeltax and got an eyeful!! Seems like Madison County, Indiana is a hot bed of political hijinx and crony-capitalism.

http://www.indianaeconomicdigest.net/main.asp?SectionID=31&SubSectionID=201&ArticleID=69920

In some other articles it appeared that the tax WAS repealed for one year . This effort was attributed to a Tea party republican group.

The largest majority of central Indiana, outside of Indianapolis, is run by a one party system.

Let me tell you, nobody wins.

BTW, our county tried to levy a wheel tax a few years ago. Everyone in the county would have had to pay it, but the biggest kicker is that they wanted people who lived in another county, but worked in our county, to pay it too. The idea was to levy it as an annual payroll tax on all employees!! Why not tax someone who has no vote?!?!?!?!

Thankfully, it failed...at least until the tax-and-spend politicians can figure out another way to push it through.

Edited September 6, 2014 by clovis

[Tom Geiger]

Many years ago in New Jersey they got the bright idea to double the registration cost on SUVs because they were obviously luxuries that people really didn't need, so they should be taxed. In the days when the average registration was $35-45 for cars, suddenly SUV registrations started at $100. The stupid part was that they included mini vans in the definition of SUV. So all the families who had the modern equivalent of station wagons, got hit. I had a Caravan and my Geo Tracker at the time and both got hit with this stupid tax.

Another thing that's popular is voting in taxes on people who can't vote. Florida had a deal where they were taxing people who were moving to the state by charging them $500 to title an out of state car. The bright stars in office got that through since current voters didn't care since it didn't effect them. They reasoned that people moving into Florida would sell their cars before moving and buy new cars in Florida to avoid this tax. I don't think it worked.

[Ace-Garageguy]

Many years ago in New Jersey they got the bright idea to double the registration cost on SUVs because they were obviously luxuries that people really didn't need... In the days when the average registration was $35-45 for cars, suddenly SUV registrations started at $100. The stupid part was that they included mini vans in the definition of SUV. So all the families who had the modern equivalent of station wagons, got hit....

... Florida had a deal where they were taxing people who were moving to the state by charging them $500 to title an out of state car. They reasoned that people moving into Florida would sell their cars before moving and buy new cars in Florida to avoid this tax. I don't think it worked.

And here, boys and girls, we have two clear examples of why most governments aren't fit to govern.

Civics 101.

[Tom Geiger]

And here, boys and girls, we have two clear examples of why most governments aren't fit to govern.

Civics 101.

Oh one more... many years ago New Jersey decided to add a tax to the purchase of new trucks. Most large trucking companies aren't just in NJ, so they just adjusted their purchasing to buy their trucks in adjoining states, and avoid the NJ tax. It cost NJ not only the new tax, but the existing sales tax, title fees, registrations etc of having those trucks bought, titled and registered in the state! They nearly put all the big truck dealers out of business before they were pressured into repealing that tax. Brilliant!

And don't get me into Governor Jim Florio and the toilet paper tax. At least the press picked up and that and it didn't go through!

[Mark]

Another thing that's popular is voting in taxes on people who can't vote. Florida had a deal where they were taxing people who were moving to the state by charging them $500 to title an out of state car. The bright stars in office got that through since current voters didn't care since it didn't effect them. They reasoned that people moving into Florida would sell their cars before moving and buy new cars in Florida to avoid this tax. I don't think it worked.

"They won't tax you, they won't tax me...they'll tax that man behind the tree...". That's how they get elected: divide and conquer. You're going to get something, and someone else is going to pay for it. How can you beat Santa Claus? I like the taxes on hotels and car rentals to pay for a stadium. Let's tax people from outside the area. I read somewhere awhile back, that not one of those deals ever raised as much money as was estimated...

[Tom Geiger]

"They won't tax you, they won't tax me...they'll tax that man behind the tree...". That's how they get elected: divide and conquer. You're going to get something, and someone else is going to pay for it. How can you beat Santa Claus? I like the taxes on hotels and car rentals to pay for a stadium. Let's tax people from outside the area. I read somewhere awhile back, that not one of those deals ever raised as much money as was estimated...

New Jersey combined all their toll road authorities... NJ Turnpike, Garden State Parkway and Atlantic City Expressway into one agency with the theory that having one entity would save money... shortly after that move, they raised the tolls! They tried to convince NJ residents that it didn't affect them because the majority of the tolls paid on these interstates were paid by people passing through the state!

[clovis]

"They won't tax you, they won't tax me...they'll tax that man behind the tree...". That's how they get elected: divide and conquer. You're going to get something, and someone else is going to pay for it. How can you beat Santa Claus? I like the taxes on hotels and car rentals to pay for a stadium. Let's tax people from outside the area. I read somewhere awhile back, that not one of those deals ever raised as much money as was estimated...

Around here, the NFL, the Colts and the city decided we needed a new sports stadium. The stadium that was built in 1980-something, which was to be the answer for the ages, was no longer a useful place.

They started taxing everything under the sun. They added a "value" restaurant tax to every meal served in central Indiana. All warm carry out food, like fried chicken at the grocery also had the tax added.

Okay, I realize that we are the weird and abnormal people, but we pretty much quit eating out at sit down restaurants when that tax was enacted. It was fun eating out with my folks and friends every weekend night, but we also realized, at the time, that we shouldn't have been eating out as often as we were. The stadium tax was the straw that broke the camel's back for us...even though it was just pocket change...we all got sick of paying 20% gratuity, and another (almost) 10% in tax.

Our tabs went up less than $1 per person, but that was enough, at least for us. And yes, once again, I realize that we are the odd people of the world.

In reality, I believe it was just the thought of being taxed on a stadium that we were already opposed to. I wish the city of Indianapolis would build me a building, and do everything that they could to make my business profitable and easy to run.

Isn't it funny, like you said, the big estimations that they proposed with the new stadium tax didn't even come close to their expectations??