Curious; why are there so few tuner classes at a lot of model shows/contests?

[Aaronw]

I kind of like the term Tom had in his post, modern day muscle.

With as broad as the general use of the "muscle car" term is it seems appropriate and could easily include subjects like the modern versions of the Challenger, Charger, Mustang, Camaro, Impala SS etc which in many ways share more with the heavily modified imports than they do the 1960s cars they are named after.

[Tonioseven]

Excellent answers, gentlemen!! Your comments are greatly appreciated!!

[chunkypeanutbutter]

Well think about how hot rodding got started.

Young kids coming back from WWII bought cheap grocery getters, beefed up the engines, repainted em, made me look cool and go fast.

Much akin to what kids are doing THESE days.

[1930fordpickup]

Tom has made some great point as have others. Antonio I would guess that the first guys that made Rat Rods though the same thing . Fads come and go but people will build as long as we have kits. Your taste and mine do not have to be the same for us to have a nice conversation at a show. The way all kits are made is the same, just the subject matter is different. The old guys forget they were young once and the old guys to them did not think much of the muscle cars they craved . As long as people are respectful at a show I do not care what they build. Come to think of it the larger the crowd the better .

[willimo]

I lurk here and I finally had to register because of this topic. Tom is completely correct. Guys who build tuner cars get runned off. We're not just punk kids, nor is the tuner community dying. It's gotten a lot more specialized, and a lot more sophisticated, so it doesn't have the visibility that it had back when Fast and the Furious was a new thing. Keep in mind the cars in the Fast and the Furious were already out of date when the movie came out, so when print publications did print a tuner in their show coverage (it was always in the show coverage, never in features) the car was "inspired by the Fast and the Furious movies," it was insulting to us regular tuner car modelers. Things have changed a LOT in the decade and a half since that movie came out. But the tuner car hobby and movement and community is just as strong as ever.

Don't believe me? That's fine. There's another, just as vibrant forum out there that only in the last few years added a subforum specifically for muscle cars and hotrods because people were complaining that they weren't represented well among the Euro cars and tuner cars. There are companies out there constantly introducing new and awesome kits, transkits, and detail parts specifically for tuner cars. Google Eightyone81. Hobby Design. C1 Models. Aoshima keeps introducing kits of older, iconic tuner cars (they are pairing with BeeMax to do an EF Civic, which will be an easily convertible motorsport subject) as well as brand new, super trendy cars like the Rocket Bunny modified FR-S that took the tuner community by storm this last spring (they did two runs of this kit and sold out within a couple weeks each time). It's ok if you don't know what Rocket Bunny is - but please keep in mind that just because you don't see it doesn't mean it's not there.

It's really frustrating when people dismiss the little Japanese cars as a "fad" for people who can't afford anything else. I promise you, my 1:1 project Civic makes my wife as mad as anyone's. It's just a different flavor, and telling people your ice cream is the best and everyone else's is ok if that's all they can afford is pretty off-putting. I like my rocky road as much as you like your vanilla bean. I've dedicated a LOT of my energies to rocky road, thank you very much.

Just like the 1:1 "tuner" community, the model tuner community is growing. It's growing in size and sophistication. It's growing in interest as us young punk kids come inside and calm down long enough to build a model. I think a lot of y'all would be shocked to see what's out there. What's available in kits and parts, and what's being built. But the attitudes in this thread are a really great example of why tuners don't show up at the model show, or meet, or on the street. We're tired of the derisive looks and the absolute lack of respect. I just moved to a new city and tomorrow I'm going to a Build-n-Bull at the local hobby shop to check out the community here. I was excited about it. Now I dread the inevitable reaction from all the "real" builders out there making muscle cars and hotrods when I pull out my Fujimi EK4 kit. Thanks a lot.

Edited October 18, 2014 by willimo

[ERIK88]

I think that "tuned" svts, Hennessey vipers , or corvettes would fall into the modern muscle car category. Tuners remind me of 4bangers, regular sedans hooked up with body kits and spoilers , loud mufflers, loud exhaust. It's all subjective however.

  On 10/18/2014 at 3:34 AM, Chuck Most said:

I think the label "Tuner" might be a tad too generic to have much meaning.

What exactly is a tuner? Well, judging from what I've seen as far as tuner category entries, it can be anything from a factory stock SVT Focus to a Skyline given the full "Dyno Queen" treatment. Obviously the term gets tossed about quite a bit as far as import cars are concerned, but what about a Hennessey Viper, or a Calloway 'Vette? Those are "tuned" by outside "tuning" firms, after all. So depending on how you want to define the term, it might cover quite a bit of ground.

As has been pointed out, many of them could just as well fit into another category. I seem to remember a Mazda RX-7 winning the "Street Machine" class at a big contest several years back. Granted, maybe not as many people are building them these days, but there are still plenty of categories for them, even for lack of a dedicated Tuner class.

Edited October 18, 2014 by ERIK88

[turbo nova]

  On 10/18/2014 at 6:02 AM, willimo said:

I lurk here and I finally had to register because of this topic. Tom is completely correct. Guys who build tuner cars get runned off. We're not just punk kids, nor is the tuner community dying. It's gotten a lot more specialized, and a lot more sophisticated, so it doesn't have the visibility that it had back when Fast and the Furious was a new thing. Keep in mind the cars in the Fast and the Furious were already out of date when the movie came out, so when print publications did print a tuner in their show coverage (it was always in the show coverage, never in features) the car was "inspired by the Fast and the Furious movies," it was insulting to us regular tuner car modelers. Things have changed a LOT in the decade and a half since that movie came out. But the tuner car hobby and movement and community is just as strong as ever.

Don't believe me? That's fine. There's another, just as vibrant forum out there that only in the last few years added a subforum specifically for muscle cars and hotrods because people were complaining that they weren't represented well among the Euro cars and tuner cars. There are companies out there constantly introducing new and awesome kits, transkits, and detail parts specifically for tuner cars. Google Eightyone81. Hobby Design. C1 Models. Aoshima keeps introducing kits of older, iconic tuner cars (they are pairing with BeeMax to do an EF Civic, which will be an easily convertible motorsport subject) as well as brand new, super trendy cars like the Rocket Bunny modified FR-S that took the tuner community by storm this last spring (they did two runs of this kit and sold out within a couple weeks each time). It's ok if you don't know what Rocket Bunny is - but please keep in mind that just because you don't see it doesn't mean it's not there.

It's really frustrating when people dismiss the little Japanese cars as a "fad" for people who can't afford anything else. I promise you, my 1:1 project Civic makes my wife as mad as anyone's. It's just a different flavor, and telling people your ice cream is the best and everyone else's is ok if that's all they can afford is pretty off-putting. I like my rocky road as much as you like your vanilla bean. I've dedicated a LOT of my energies to rocky road, thank you very much.

Just like the 1:1 "tuner" community, the model tuner community is growing. It's growing in size and sophistication. It's growing in interest as us young punk kids come inside and calm down long enough to build a model. I think a lot of y'all would be shocked to see what's out there. What's available in kits and parts, and what's being built. But the attitudes in this thread are a really great example of why tuners don't show up at the model show, or meet, or on the street. We're tired of the derisive looks and the absolute lack of respect. I just moved to a new city and tomorrow I'm going to a Build-n-Bull at the local hobby shop to check out the community here. I was excited about it. Now I dread the inevitable reaction from all the "real" builders out there making muscle cars and hotrods when I pull out my Fujimi EK4 kit. Thanks a lot.

I was judging my statement based of market share and projected sales $$$$, I get that you passionate about them and thats great, just explaining my post is all.

[FASTBACK340]

Coming from an older modeler, but full-time "car guy" I can see why a replica of a tuner car is less appealing, but purely for unintended reasons.

A musclecar or hot rod has a pretty much visible engine compartment, face it a focal point, with pretty much familiar systems. Late model cars (even the new Camaro's & Challengers) have plastic shielded engines or transverse 4 cylinders where if you detail the life out of it, nothing is visible due to design. To my eye, that's not going to grab my attention on a contest table. Paintwork is another story as that's going to work no matter what the subject matter. But again, details from a vintage car are more intricate than the jelly-bean look of todays designs. Ever walk into a new car dealership and see the display of aerodynamic nondescript shapes in all the manufacturers colors? Put wheels on them and that's almost as common all cars look today at a glance. At my shop extra effort is put into routing and bracketing and details because everything is seen. When we do late model stuff, it rarely looks aesthetically interesting after modifying. And it's all because of evolution by design.

Same game, different playbook. Unfortunate todays youth has a different car to grow up with….

[FASTBACK340]

  On 10/18/2014 at 6:02 AM, willimo said:

I promise you, my 1:1 project Civic makes my wife as mad as anyone's. It's just a different flavor, and telling people your ice cream is the best and everyone else's is ok if that's all they can afford is pretty off-putting. I like my rocky road as much as you like your vanilla bean. I've dedicated a LOT of my energies to rocky road, thank you very much.

Well said. I had Hot-Rodded Beetles 30 years ago and continued to drive 4 cylinder cars as recently as 2 years ago before my Wife's GTI was totaled. 5 years ago I had a `94 SE-R that would run away and hide from my Wife's V-dub…. But I also had the `Cuda. Although I'm not a religious person, my philosophy is this:

Same Church, different pews.

[ERIK88]

Tuners kinda remind me of when lowriders hit the scene. Lowriders were highly opposed by authorities and the general population, there was a long list of stereotypes against people who drove lowriders. How dare you rebel against society and drive these cars with such a low ground clearance? destroying our infrastructure (as they claimed in the 70s). Hydraulics came into existence to resolve that issue, if there is a cop around , just raise your car up a few inches ! Haha. Before hydraulics, the lowered ride height was for the most part permanent, it's not like they could pull over and untie the chains used to lower their suspensions before the cops caught up with them. The new tuner scene is pretty much the same, younger crowd, shiny paint, lowered ride height, except it has not really kicked off really well, and learned to be appreciated over this past decade and a half. The hobby was at its peak during the lowriding scene. The tuner fad is now for these youngsters, the majority in this hobby are still those baby boomers who experienced the lowrider era, and the golden years of the modeling industry.

Edited October 18, 2014 by ERIK88

[deuces wild]

  On 10/18/2014 at 1:56 AM, Snake45 said:

Agreed. I think there was one named Nikki something or other who was cuter.

Jungle Pam Hardy was hotter than Linda.

But I understand that Linda has a near-photographic memory about the good old days--she is apparently a walking, talking encyclopedia about all that stuff--and she was there. Supposed to be a real nice person, too.

Pam is a sweetheart.. I chatted with her on the hamb a while back...

[Tonioseven]

Clearly you haven't much of a clue to what's REALLY happening in that scene.

[mnwildpunk]

Hey I am not a TUNER guy but I will look at one talk to the owner and appreciate the work and craftsmanship that went into it even if I don't agree with radical camber and things like that but I give um credit for what they did

[Kennyboy]

Just to show that there is still SOME interest in tuners out there....the other model magazine did a shoot at the NNL's in the recent issue. My F+F Supra made it in there for the Milwaukee NNL.....and that is about as TUNER as it gets!

Edited October 18, 2014 by Kennyboy

[chunkypeanutbutter]

I appreciate tuners.... However, splayed out wheels are NOT something I respect. Have fun with your bearings, buddy.

[DrKerry]

Well I'm 45 and I build a tuner from time to time. I like the Euro styling as long as it's done right. Not over done like some people do now a days....

[niteowl7710]

I would like to interject that added a wing, some fake carbon fiber, and a fart can exhaust doesn't make a car a "tuner" any more than going shopping in the Edlebrock engine dress-up section of Summit Racing and tossing on a set of Keystone mags makes something a "Hot Rod/Muscle Car".

Also if you airdropped someone from another planet into the 1940s to look at the sea of.jellybean shaped cars (everything old is new again) they wouldn't be able to tell the difference. Same goes for the Fabulous Fins of the 50s. Regardless of what you think of current automotive styling, you're looking at things through a haze of nostalgia and memories at best if you really want to pretend that once the newest automotive styling trend hit in whatever decade of the past, that in a few short years EVERY car didn't immediately adopt it and everything started to look the same.

Edited October 19, 2014 by niteowl7710

[Joe Handley]

  On 10/18/2014 at 10:23 PM, chunkypeanutbutter said:

I appreciate tuners.... However, splayed out wheels are NOT something I respect. Have fun with your bearings, buddy.

Honestly, that's the only one that bothers me, from a looks like somebody blew all their lower ball joints stance to the tires that are 2-3 inches too narrower that the rims (that just scares me to be honest.)

[Aaronw]

I could be wrong, but my assumption is that "tuners" are primarily performance based modifications. There may be some cross over in style with more visual modification (splayed out wheels, hydraulics and such), but I think that is really something different. Seems kind of like lumping lowriders and hot rods into the same group just because they are modified cars.

[Aaronw]

Oh, and just because this give me an excuse to post this

Fast & the Furious Stockholm style

I'm assuming this is a parody, but there really are people out there getting 400+ hp out of Volvo's 1980s era 2.3 liter turbo 4 cyl. The old brick is apparently becoming popular with the tuner and drifting crowd.

[slusher]

  On 10/18/2014 at 10:16 PM, Kennyboy said:

Just to show that there is still SOME interest in tuners out there....the other model magazine did a shoot at the NNL's in the recent issue. My F+F Supra made it in there for the Milwaukee NNL.....and that is about as TUNER as it gets!

Ken, I loved that build you did on your F+F Supra and gave me interest in building one some time. Nothing wrong with building tuner if that's what someone likes..

[S. Svendsen]

It's funny. In real life I own all Hondas and I have driven mostly tuner cars. But I build mostly 60's-70's American model cars. I guess it's because building models is sort of an escape for me and I like to build cars that I would probably never really own in real life.

[PARTSMARTY]

JUST MY OPINION-TUNERS MAY BE FLASHY BUT AMERICAN MUSCLE IS THE REAL DEAL.NOTHING COMPARES WITH HOT ROD POWER-SORRY !!!- I CAN'T STAND TUNERS.

[chunkypeanutbutter]

You might get one of the buzz bombs in the straights, but he'll getcha in the corners.

[ERIK88]

Haha funny clip.

quote name="Aaronw" post="1287261" timestamp="1413695109"]Oh, and just because this give me an excuse to post this

Fast & the Furious Stockholm style

I'm assuming this is a parody, but there really are people out there getting 400+ hp out of Volvo's 1980s era 2.3 liter turbo 4 cyl. The old brick is apparently becoming popular with the tuner and drifting crowd.