FrankenGoat - making something DECENT out of the MPC 72 GTO

[Kmb0319]

Well, what have I gone and bitten off??  I was talking with my best friend, and he had commented on how much he liked my builds.  I asked him what his favorite car was.  He said the 70-72 GTOs, especially with the Judge package.  I asked him about colors... pick anything that's your favorite... he went traditional: orange/black, but wanted to have the "cool metallic orange they came in."  (I think Pontiac called it Copper, but it was metallic orange)  

I bought the kit, knowing all the horror stories about it.  My first thought:  sheesh, this is going to get expensive!  The interior is terrible... classic bad AMT/MPC, with most of the door panel details just drawn/etched in.  The engine, chassis and underhood compartments are worse.  And, of course, there's the body that is too narrow for the rear bumper.  I'm going to have to use a TON of aftermarket pieces and raid my parts box to make this into something good.  Making a list, so far, this is what I'm going to need:

• Reliable Resin 1970 GTO body - Since this is molded from the 1970 kit, it should have the body wide enough so that the bumper will actually fit
• Pontiac Rally Rims - purchased from Model Roundup
• AMT 69 Olds 442 donor for chassis, suspension
• B N L Resins Chevy 454 engine - I need a well-detailed big block with the correct valve covers to add the vacuum hoses and correct position of the oil filler.  (the biggest immediate problem with the Olds kit engine is the large oil filler tube up front behind the fan belt and the alternator is on the wrong side of the engine compared to the 1:1 GTO.  The B N L engine has those elements correct, looks great, and I think I can add details to make a suitable GTO 455)
• Detail Master interior kit, with window cranks, door handles, etc
• DM carb linkage, throttle springs
• Battery cables, Morgan Automotive wired distributor
• AMT Goodyear Polyglas GTs, L-60 size
• lots of spare parts fom my parts box... steering box, pedals, firewall details, hose and wire, etc.  I HAD a set of armrests from the Revell 67 Chevelle... now I can only find 1, of course, so I'm not sure what I'll do there.
• A dried out baby wipe that I will attempt to cut into shape and paint, using it as both a headliner and a package shelf.

In other words, this will be a project.  I have the Cutlass, the rims and tires, and of course, my parts box so far.  While waiting for all the other stuff I'm ordering, I'll try to work on some of the things that I'm actually using from the kit and what's on hand.  So far, I've painted the interior bucket and detailed some of the trim.  The trim is so poorly molded, it's been a challenge, to say the least.  I thought about attempting to foil, but it's molded so faintly, there's no way to find the edges.  I thought about trying to epoxy some fishing line over the trim and paint or foil that, but it was a little too heavy.  So, at this point, it's just paint.  There will be further touch-ups.  I've flocked the floor, painted the seats with  the vinyl/textured inserts, the dash, and borrowed gauge decals from another kit.   

Here's where I am... just painting so far.  The interior bucket was painted semi-gloss black, carpet was flocked, and then i painted the center seat sections with flat black.  I don't think they're cloth in the 1:1, but they are a more textured vinyl giving them less of that vinyl shine, so I needed to have a contrast.  Then I painted the chrome trim on the front seats and started with the easiest trim on the door panels.  The headrests are awful... huge mold lines, and they just look like blobs.  I'll sand them down and see if they get better.

The pedals are from my parts box, and i tried to add in the silver edge trim the real car has:

 

Before I install the front seats, I'll also have to get seatbelts in place front and rear.

After trying a couple different methods mentioned above, i just went with a tiny detail brush and painted the rest of the door trim.

Filled in the silver trim and the Pontiac logo on the steering wheel. (sorry it's so blurry)

Then painted the dashboard.  Throughout all of the interior, I see some touch-ups needed, but it's a solid start.  I will also drop some clear glue into the gauges to make bezels. Hopefully, the photo-etch kit really brings the interior hardware to life.  Now if I can only find that other armrest!!!!!!

Next, I moved on to my resin wheels from Model Roundup.  They are two-piece... the chrome trim ring and a white resin wheel.  I painted them, and then held one against a rim inside my tires to get a look.  These are pretty nice replicas!!!  (again, I blow a picture up to be a close-up and see all the needed touch-ups)

Lastly, I painted up the 69 Cutlass donor chassis, the suspension components and assembled them.  Then I stuck the tires on, put the interior into the body I won't be using, and stuck them together to get an initial mock-up of stance.  We'll see how it looks and what issues come up when I get the Reliable Resin GTO body.

 

So far, so good.  I'm sure I'll invent 40 new cuss words trying to get the exhaust under the glued-in rear suspension, and the replacement body and engine will cause a ton of heartburn, but hopefully it'll all be worth it. If I'm screwing something up or you have a better idea on fixing some of this mess, let me know.  

Edited October 11, 2017 by Kmb0319
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[Ace-Garageguy]

I would respectfully suggest you might consider using a Pontiac engine rather than the resin big-block Chevy you mention above.

There are MANY immediately visible differences between a Chevy and a Pontiac engine that anyone who's spent time under hoods will spot right off. The timing covers, water pumps, valve covers, intake manifolds, valley covers, oil pans and exhaust-port spacing are completely different on a big-block Chevy and a 455 Pontiac.

The old Revell parts-pack Pontiac engine LOOKS like a Pontiac, because it's a well-scaled model of a Pontiac. You can't readily tell the displacement from looking at a 1/25 scale model, either. The old Revell Pontiac kits are plentiful and cheap.

          

Since you're going to all the trouble to correct and modify much of the model, it only seems reasonable (to me) that you'd try to start with an accurate-appearing engine.  

[Kmb0319]

I would respectfully suggest you might consider using a Pontiac engine rather than the resin big-block Chevy you mention above.

There are MANY immediately visible differences between a Chevy and a Pontiac engine that anyone who's spent time under hoods will spot right off. The timing covers, water pumps, valve covers, intake manifolds, valley covers, oil pans and exhaust-port spacing are completely different on a big-block Chevy and a 455 Pontiac.

The old Revell parts-pack Pontiac engine LOOKS like a Pontiac, because it's a well-scaled model of a Pontiac. You can't readily tell the displacement from looking at a 1/25 scale model, either. The old Revell Pontiac kits are plentiful and cheap.

          

Since you're going to all the trouble to correct and modify much of the model, it only seems reasonable (to me) that you'd try to start with an accurate-appearing engine.  

Thanks, Ace!  I saw the Revell 421, and thought about it, bit I was worried that since it's an older engine from the SD Catalinas and such that it wouldn't look the same... kind of like the Chevy 409 looks very different from the 427s and 454s later in the decade.  Plus it's a more significant difference in displacement.   But if you think it's a better choice than a 454, it's certainly cheaper and easier to find.  Thanks!

[Ace-Garageguy]

Thanks, Ace!  I saw the Revell 421, and thought about it, bit I was worried that since it's an older engine from the SD Catalinas and such that it wouldn't look the same... kind of like the Chevy 409 looks very different from the 427s and 454s later in the decade.  Plus it's a more significant difference in displacement.   But if you think it's a better choice than a 454, it's certainly cheaper and easier to find.  Thanks!

In the Chevy family, the 348-409 engines are referred to as "W" blocks, and are a completely different design from the later big-blocks.

In the later Chevy big-block series, everything from the 396 through the factory 454 and up to the 572 crate engines are all the same basic design, and can all pass for each other in 1/25 scale.

Pontiac, on the other hand, used the same basic design from the little 287 introduced in 1955, all the way through the 455. The only immediately obvious difference is the odd reverse-flow cooling system Pontiac used through 1959 (the engines look the same, other than the coolant hoses that come out of the front of the cylinder heads on the early ones; the freeze-plugs on the ends of most Pontiac heads are vestigial evidence of the old cooling system design). 

The 455 is essentially a bored and stroked 421, and though the engines in the 421-428-455 series are "large journal" engines (the crankshaft main bearings are larger) all the Pontiac engines (not, of course, the post-'82 "corporate" Chevy smallblock and Olds engines) appear much the same externally, other than superficial things like specific induction and exhaust systems and accessories.

Edited November 15, 2016 by Ace-Garageguy

[JerseyRed]

WOW! You're a great friend. He's gonna owe you a nice steak dinner and some good beer for this one 

[espo]

I can see that you have already got your interior pretty well done, but just for the future, you might try outlining all of the detail with your #11 before you even primer the interior. This holds true for all of the moldings on the body also. These features are often molded very lightly just as your interior was here. I have found that if you outline all of these moldings on the interior and the body as part of your basic prep before primer you don't lose the feature after paint. I even go so far as to make a very visible line along the body moldings that will be foiled later. These usually get covered under several layers of paint and get very hard to find the edge when you go back to foil.  You have gotten a lot of valid information on sources for a Pontiac engine . Another possibility if you have the Revell  '69 Firebird kit.

[Snake45]

I like where you're going with this. Drive on!

[DumpyDan]

Looks like a good build, really like the wheels

[Ron Hamilton]

Good Luck!!!!!

[Kmb0319]

Good Luck!!!!!

Thanks Ron!!  Hopefully I'll get some work done on it over the Thanksgiving weekend and have more to post.

[blunc]

I second Bill's advice regarding Pontiac engines, even in full size Pontiac engines you wouldn't be able to be sure what the displacement was without looking at casting numbers or other manufacturing clues.

here is one from the Monogram 69 GTO kit.

[ZTony8]

The biggest external difference on the later Pontiac engines came in 1967 when the heads were upgraded and the the thermostat placement was changed.The newer design has the thermostat facing up,the older design has the thermost facing forward.

[dodgefever]

Reliable Resin 1970 GTO body - Since this is molded from the 1970 kit, it should have the body wide enough so that the bumper will actually fit

I wouldn't...  but if you do try to purchase from Reliable Resin, use your credit card and/or Paypal and keep track of when you placed the order, so you can file a claim if he doesn't deliver.

As an aside, I have the MPC '70 GTO and the rear bumper is too wide on that too.

Finally - as Bill and the others said, use a Pontiac engine.  A BBC is nothing like a Pontiac.

 

 

 

[Kmb0319]

I wouldn't...  but if you do try to purchase from Reliable Resin, use your credit card and/or Paypal and keep track of when you placed the order, so you can file a claim if he doesn't deliver.

As an aside, I have the MPC '70 GTO and the rear bumper is too wide on that too.

Finally - as Bill and the others said, use a Pontiac engine.  A BBC is nothing like a Pontiac.

 

 

 

Wow... really?  Thanks for the heads up,  but now I'm confused.  I had started a thread in the aftermarket forum months ago and was told the body was narrowed when they made the 71 David Pearson NASCAR edition, but to get a 1970 version before that Pearson model was made would give you a body that was a correct width for the bumper.  I was sent pics of the version to get, and found it a couple places that had it  for about $40.  But when I looked at the Reliable Resin body, it said it was cast from the 70 GTO, which would make the body the proper width for the bumper.  In addition, it had the clear headlights and turn signal lamps, so I thought I'd try using it.  Modelhaus used to make a bumper, but now that they are closed, I'm not sure what to do.  I don't have the proper cutting tools and don't want to mess up the bumper, so I really need either an aftermarket body or bumper that's going to fit.  Not sure where to turn now.

[Snake45]

As an aside, I have the MPC '70 GTO and the rear bumper is too wide on that too.

 

Interesting. I have an original MPC '70 promo and the bumper width is fine on that one.

[dodgefever]

My '70 GTO is the 1980s reissue.  I wasn't aware the body had been modified from the first issue. 

[Kmb0319]

I was told this version had a correct body/bumper fit.  

Anyone know for sure before I potentially waste $50?  I thought since the Reliable Resin body was a corrected version of the MPC 1970 body, I would get that because it would be based from the "pre-narrowed" body for proper rear bumper fit and it also includes clear headlights and driving lights.

 The other potential was the kit above, as it was supposed to have the right body/bumper fit.  Now it sounds like there is nothing out there other than an old 70 promo kit that would work.  Nobody has just a correct bumper anymore since Modelhaus closed.  I'm really nervous about trying to cut the bumper and end up with a good result, but it sounds like I may not have a choice.

[Snake45]

I was told this version had a correct body/bumper fit.  

Anyone know for sure before I potentially waste $50?  I thought since the Reliable Resin body was a corrected version of the MPC 1970 body, I would get that because it would be based from the "pre-narrowed" body for proper rear bumper fit and it also includes clear headlights and driving lights.

 The other potential was the kit above, as it was supposed to have the right body/bumper fit.  Now it sounds like there is nothing out there other than an old 70 promo kit that would work.  Nobody has just a correct bumper anymore since Modelhaus closed.  I'm really nervous about trying to cut the bumper and end up with a good result, but it sounds like I may not have a choice.

This came up in another thread not long ago. I took out that kit and checked it and the rear bumper IS different--it is narrower than the bumper in the '72. I'm not 100% sure that it's narrow enough, but it IS narrower than the '72 bumper--so much so it can be seen with the naked eye, dial caliper not even necessary.

[dodgefever]

 

That's the one I have.  The bumper is too wide, to my eye...  as a result it's remained untouched in the box for years.

[Can-Con]

OK, Here's a couple pics of the bumper from the '70 sitting on the '72 body. ,, looks OK to me. Not perfect, it is a touch wide but "OK".

 

I did widen the bumper from the '72 and it's in the mail on it's way to the platers now as they were wider.

 

As for the Reliable Resin piece, I just looked on his site and I don't think the back bumper comes with the body.

[Kmb0319]

Thanks so much for the pictorial evidence!! The bumper from that kit is a MUCH better fit.  Looks like I'll be buying that one instead of the Reliable Resin body.  I'm placing my order tonight for throttle springs, carb linkage, window crabs and other detail parts along with the Pontiac 421 kit.  Looks like the parts are altered but the plan is back rolling!  Thanks and Happy Thanksgiving everyone!!

[Geno]

Ahhhh, that's going to be one sweet Tin Indian.

[Snake45]

If you want to save 50 frogs and don't want to risk chopping the rear bumper from the '72 (which isn't really that big a deal), you could always cut body in the trunk area and widen it slightly to fit the bumper. I'm not kidding. It's completely do-able, and wouldn't be that difficult. I'm thinking of doing this myself, as the '72 body is measurably thinner than the original '70 promo body in the rear (I measured all this stuff with a caliper a while back and posted all the numbers, but I don't remember what thread it's in now).

[Kmb0319]

If you want to save 50 frogs and don't want to risk chopping the rear bumper from the '72 (which isn't really that big a deal), you could always cut body in the trunk area and widen it slightly to fit the bumper. I'm not kidding. It's completely do-able, and wouldn't be that difficult. I'm thinking of doing this myself, as the '72 body is measurably thinner than the original '70 promo body in the rear (I measured all this stuff with a caliper a while back and posted all the numbers, but I don't remember what thread it's in now).

I've thought about it... my main concern is having the styrene remain aligned with the contour of the trunk.  I have zero experience doing anything like that, and since I'm building this for someone else, I'm afraid of experimenting and having it fail.

[Kmb0319]

Well, this has been sitting for a few months, but I got back on it last week and accomplished a little.  I still have to purchase one of the Revell parts pack engines and probably some photo-etched interior details, but I got a few key things accomplished:

This is a total experiment, but I thought I'd try.  I glued a baby wipe into the roof to make a headliner, then trimmed around the edges:

It's not perfectly clean, but my blade isn't sharp enough.  For the bumper, I decided to try to the cut-the-trunk method.  It will look a little wonky in the end, but the 70 GTO kits are getting really hard to find, and the cheapest I've seen is $65.  So, I'll try this:

Got the tailight trim painted and the lights installed, just need to paint the license plate frame and I can try to make it fit.

Next, seatbelts.  Rather than use the fabric belts, which are too wide for the openings in the photo-etched buckles, I cut some masking tape down, so I can run them through and fold over to actually have the buckles/clasps properly attached.  Then I glue them down and paint the tape.  Attached:

And painted:

Finally, I needed get paint on.  I used Testors Fiery Orange Metallic one-coat lacquer... 3 coats.  After wet sanding and compounding, I used the Mr. Hobby clear glaze... 3 coats again.  I like the finish:

Then I painted in the side vents and did the wash in the panel lines.  This is the easiest kit I've ever done those on, as the lines are quite promient

 

Finally, stuck the chassis and  interior bucket into the body and put two of my wheels on to get a test stance:

Lots more to do, but I'm glad to have finally made a little more progress.

Edited October 11, 2017 by Kmb0319
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