A new . . . . Hornet?!

[Smoke Wagon]

The Hudson Hornet is rolling in its step-down grave right now. 

[Rob Hall]

2 hours ago, Smoke Wagon said:

The Hudson Hornet is rolling in its step-down grave right now. 

I doubt if many prospective new car shoppers that would be looking at the new Hornet would be aware of the AMC Hornet, let alone the Hudson Hornet..long time ago..

[redneckrigger]

With the announcement that Chrysler will no longer make their muscle cars after 2023, this is the face of the future, along with EV's? Not in my garage, no sir. Just bought a new truck. Have always been a GM guy, so went to look at the new Silverados. Found that GM was selling their full size 1500 crew cabs that weigh 5000 pounds with a 2.7L turbo 4 cylinder engine.  Nope, sorry..................I chose the 5.3, that is rated at just 1 MPG less than the 2.7. Yup, I am an old guy that does not like change. But a 2.7, even with high torque ratings, in a 5000 pound full size truck? Again, nope. 

Edited March 28, 2023 by redneckrigger

[peteski]

Yes, the negative comments here are very likely from older folks who remember the original AMC Hornet (which was not all that hot either). We are not the car maker's target audience. Millennials and Gen-Z kids will not know or care about the Hornet's name history, or that it is just a rebadged vehicle.  That is assuming that they have driver's license or even  want to buy and own a car.  Many don't even want to drive, and consider driving a chore, not a fun activity.  Why drive when Uber or lift can get them where they want to go.  Those are as close as their smart phone app.

And yes, like pretty much all the automobiles made today, it is a rebadged Alfa-Romeo, which in itself is under Fiat's control.

In today world, individual car companies pretty much don't really exist.  Most (including exotic brands) have been absorbed by the giant car manufacturers. Badge engineering, where the same car (with minor visual or mechanical changes)  is sold under many names seems to have originated in USA in mid 20th Century (or even earlier) and it is rampant in today's world. Unfortunate, but true.

Heck, we even have competing car manufacturers making cars for another. Like Toyota Matrix and Pontiac Vibe as one example.  I still don't know how that one made sense for GM to buy cars from Toyota, since they are rivals.  Whatever it is, it's likely done to maximize profits.

[iamsuperdan]

21 minutes ago, peteski said:

 

Heck, we even have competing car manufacturers making cars for another. Like Toyota Matrix and Pontiac Vibe as one example.  I still don't know how that one made sense for GM to buy cars from Toyota, since they are rivals.  Whatever it is, it's likely done to maximize profits.

Yup! It was a lot easier and a lot cheaper for GM to license the Toyota Matric and slap a Pontiac badge on it, than it would have be to design a compact car that could compete with Toyota or Honda. Might as well rebadge the leader!

 

 

 

Anyway...

• 285hp Turbo 4-cylinder hybrid
• all-wheel drive
• Brembo brakes
• Koni suspension
• 20" wheels
• 14-speaker Harmon Kardon stereo with Android Auto
• Alcantara & leather interior
• heated seats, heated steering wheel
• LED headlights

 

 

That sounds pretty good to me.

 

 

 

 

 

[Ace-Garageguy]

8 minutes ago, iamsuperdan said:

Anyway...

• 285hp Turbo 4-cylinder hybrid
• all-wheel drive
• Brembo brakes
• Koni suspension
• 20" wheels
• 14-speaker Harmon Kardon stereo with Android Auto
• Alcantara & leather interior
• heated seats, heated steering wheel
• LED headlights

That sounds pretty good to me.

Tiny overstressed engine that has unavoidably high mechanical wear rates

Only available with many-speed automatic gearbox

Insane level of complication due to the above, plus the hybrid drivetrains

Poor repairability once it's out of warranty

Pretty much worthless once it hits the secondary markets because all of the above 

Where do I sign up?   

[Rob Hall]

16 minutes ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

 

Poor repairability once it's out of warranty

 

As with any modern vehicle, I wouldn't have one out of warranty.   It's a mainstream lease appliance.

[Ace-Garageguy]

3 minutes ago, Rob Hall said:

As with any modern vehicle, I wouldn't have one out of warranty.   It's a mainstream lease appliance.

Exactly.   

[1972coronet]

1 hour ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

Tiny overstressed engine that has unavoidably high mechanical wear rates

Only available with many-speed automatic gearbox

And that small-displacement engine's in a 5,000 lbs. vehicle at that (perhaps a smidge hyperbolic on my part). 

A multiple-speed auto - planetary gearset - would be better than a CVT. Not by much (talk about 10 lbs. of dung in a 2 lbs. bag), but at least a step about those garbage CVT's.

[Ace-Garageguy]

16 minutes ago, 1972coronet said:

And that small-displacement engine's in a 5,000 lbs. vehicle at that (perhaps a smidge hyperbolic on my part). 

A multiple-speed auto - planetary gearset - would be better than a CVT. Not by much (talk about 10 lbs. of dung in a 2 lbs. bag), but at least a step about those garbage CVT's.

Oh boy...did I miss the fact it has a CVT? Oh boy.

While a great idea on paper, in the field many have been somewhat less than ideal...so far.

[Rob Hall]

20 minutes ago, 1972coronet said:

And that small-displacement engine's in a 5,000 lbs. vehicle at that (perhaps a smidge hyperbolic on my part). 

3362 lbs is what I’ve seen. This is a compact.  

[Rob Hall]

4 minutes ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

Oh boy...did I miss the fact it has a CVT? Oh boy.

No, ZF 9 spd auto according to the Dodge website.  

[Classicgas]

2 hours ago, peteski said:

Yes, the negative comments here are very likely from older folks who remember the original AMC Hornet (which was not all that hot either). We are not the car maker's target audience. Millennials and Gen-Z kids will not know or care about the Hornet's name history, or that it is just a rebadged vehicle.  That is assuming that they have driver's license or even  want to buy and own a car.  Many don't even want to drive, and consider driving a chore, not a fun activity.  Why drive when Uber or lift can get them where they want to go.  Those are as close as their smart phone app.

And yes, like pretty much all the automobiles made today, it is a rebadged Alfa-Romeo, which in itself is under Fiat's control.

In today world, individual car companies pretty much don't really exist.  Most (including exotic brands) have been absorbed by the giant car manufacturers. Badge engineering, where the same car (with minor visual or mechanical changes)  is sold under many names seems to have originated in USA in mid 20th Century (or even earlier) and it is rampant in today's world. Unfortunate, but true.

Heck, we even have competing car manufacturers making cars for another. Like Toyota Matrix and Pontiac Vibe as one example.  I still don't know how that one made sense for GM to buy cars from Toyota, since they are rivals.  Whatever it is, it's likely done to maximize profits.

May not have been hot, but at least it had style. And with a V8 it wasn't that bad. I had a 71, 6 with a 3 on the tree, could get it rolling from a stop in 3rd and get a chirp in all 3.

[1972coronet]

56 minutes ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

Oh boy...did I miss the fact it has a CVT? Oh boy.

While a great idea on paper, in the field many have been somewhat less than ideal...so far.

[ see my response below ]

54 minutes ago, Rob Hall said:

3362 lbs is what I’ve seen. This is a compact.  

Heck, that's more than my 1972 Swinger weighed, and it was a 'compact' during its era.

51 minutes ago, Rob Hall said:

No, ZF 9 spd auto according to the Dodge website.  

I obviously didn't bother reading the article (my bad). Frankly, I'm surprised that it has a planetary gearset trans, as most new(er) vehicles have those junky CVT's (as @Ace-Garageguymentioned, good concept and theory, but awful in practical applications). Either way, nine forward gears is a lot to cram-into a transaxle (let alone a transmission). And, just as likely, it "skips" gears which the ECM [et alia] deems to be "inefficient" due to "demand" -- ostensibly an in es. CVT, but with planetary gears (solenoids replacing bands).

[Rob Hall]

2 minutes ago, 1972coronet said:

[ see my response below ]

Heck, that's more than my 1972 Swinger weighed, and it was a 'compact' during its era.

 

That was also over 50 years ago...cars were much less densely packed with content than today.  Today we have larger, heavier wheels and tires, safety equipment, vastly more electronics, etc.  I think my '67 Cougar, '69 Mustang and '87 Mustang GT are all in the 3200-3300lb range w/ V8s, but again, simple cars compared to today.   I think my late model Jeep w/ the 3.6 V6 and ZF 8spd auto and AWD is about 4950lbs, which is reasonable for a 2 row midsize SUV. 

[1972coronet]

6 minutes ago, Rob Hall said:

[My] late model Jeep [ is equipped] w/ the 3.6 V6 and ZF 8spd auto [.]

Is that the longitude-mount trans. ? 

Is it a nice shifting gearbox ?

[Rob Hall]

30 minutes ago, 1972coronet said:

Is that the longitude-mount trans. ? 

Is it a nice shifting gearbox ?

Yes, longitudinal..  very smooth.  WK2 Grand Cherokee..very widely used transmission--also used in the Chrysler 300, Challenger, Charger, Durango, various Audis, BMWs, Rolls Royce, Land Rover, Jaguar etc..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZF_8HP_transmission

Edited March 27, 2023 by Rob Hall

[NYLIBUD]

That thing is awful looking,from the tires to the roof.Yea I wondered how Chrysler was able to get away with using the name Hornet,but then again,as you pointed out.and I forgot,Chrysler ate up AMC,years ago…But come on boys go back to the drawing board on this giant POS.??.Mopar is going to go straight down the garbage chute once they finish with the Challenger,and Charger.Too bad Lee Iacocca isn’t still around.Cause if Chrysler does start to churn out garbage such as this (Hornet),something tells me their gonna need another bail out.Just saying,IMO..

[espo]

5 hours ago, peteski said:

Yes, the negative comments here are very likely from older folks who remember the original AMC Hornet (which was not all that hot either). We are not the car maker's target audience. Millennials and Gen-Z kids will not know or care about the Hornet's name history, or that it is just a rebadged vehicle.  That is assuming that they have driver's license or even  want to buy and own a car.  Many don't even want to drive, and consider driving a chore, not a fun activity.  Why drive when Uber or lift can get them where they want to go.  Those are as close as their smart phone app.

And yes, like pretty much all the automobiles made today, it is a rebadged Alfa-Romeo, which in itself is under Fiat's control.

In today world, individual car companies pretty much don't really exist.  Most (including exotic brands) have been absorbed by the giant car manufacturers. Badge engineering, where the same car (with minor visual or mechanical changes)  is sold under many names seems to have originated in USA in mid 20th Century (or even earlier) and it is rampant in today's world. Unfortunate, but true.

Heck, we even have competing car manufacturers making cars for another. Like Toyota Matrix and Pontiac Vibe as one example.  I still don't know how that one made sense for GM to buy cars from Toyota, since they are rivals.  Whatever it is, it's likely done to maximize profits.

You mention the GM situation involving GM and Toyota. The Pontiac Vibe was built in a joint factory in the LA area called NUMI. This wasn't their first venture in building a jointly developed car as they did with the Toyota Corolla and some of the Chevrolet cars marketed under the GEO brand. The plant was owned by GM and used to build Camaros. GM couldn't develop and build as well as market a brand-new product as cheaply as they could by pertaining with Toyota. Ford had done this with Mazda in the past, mainly for compact trucks. Chrysler has had a working relationship with Mitsubishi as well. You even have Toyota and Subaru building a sports car, much like Toyota and BMW. To many of the everyday cars in the marketplace today seem like homogenized milk. Any more you just pick the color and two or three equipment levels since they are no longer built as an ala kart like long ago, and who's name you want on the back.  

[Rob Hall]

8 minutes ago, espo said:

You mention the GM situation involving GM and Toyota. The Pontiac Vibe was built in a joint factory in the LA area called NUMI. This wasn't their first venture in building a jointly developed car as they did with the Toyota Corolla and some of the Chevrolet cars marketed under the GEO brand. The plant was owned by GM and used to build Camaros. GM couldn't develop and build as well as market a brand-new product as cheaply as they could by pertaining with Toyota. Ford had done this with Mazda in the past, mainly for compact trucks. Chrysler has had a working relationship with Mitsubishi as well. You even have Toyota and Subaru building a sports car, much like Toyota and BMW. To many of the everyday cars in the marketplace today seem like homogenized milk. Any more you just pick the color and two or three equipment levels since they are no longer built as an ala kart like long ago, and who's name you want on the back.  

The NUMMI plant is in Fremont, in the SF East Bay Area.   It is now owned by Tesla. 

[iamsuperdan]

36 minutes ago, NYLIBUD said:

That thing is awful looking,from the tires to the roof.Yea I wondered how Chrysler was able to get away with using the name Hornet,but then again,as you pointed out.and I forgot,Chrysler ate up AMC,years ago…But come on boys go back to the drawing board on this giant POS.??.Mopar is going to go straight down the garbage chute once they finish with the Challenger,and Charger.Too bad Lee Iacocca isn’t still around.Cause if Chrysler does start to churn out garbage such as this (Hornet),something tells me their gonna need another bail out.Just saying,IMO..

 

 

 

 

Nah, as long as they keep pumping out Ram trucks and Jeeps, Stellantis won't be going anywhere anytime soon.

 

 

 

 

[NYLIBUD]

7 minutes ago, iamsuperdan said:

 

 

Nah, as long as they keep pumping out Ram trucks and Jeeps, Stellantis won't be going anywhere anytime soon.

 

 

 

 

Yea that is true.Their truck division,etc will keep their heads above water..

[NYLIBUD]

You’ve got a very good point there Espo.Something also to think about some more.

[Classicgas]

53 minutes ago, NYLIBUD said:

That thing is awful looking,from the tires to the roof.Yea I wondered how Chrysler was able to get away with using the name Hornet,but then again,as you pointed out.and I forgot,Chrysler ate up AMC,years ago…But come on boys go back to the drawing board on this giant POS.??.Mopar is going to go straight down the garbage chute once they finish with the Challenger,and Charger.Too bad Lee Iacocca isn’t still around.Cause if Chrysler does start to churn out garbage such as this (Hornet),something tells me their gonna need another bail out.Just saying,IMO..

Sweet!!

[Little Timmy]

That is just one ugly car.

Think I will take my chances with the actual Hornets  in a paper bag.

? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?

 

( now,  let's just stick my head in the bag and see what all the fuss is about... )