Revell's New Midget Kits

[Art Anderson]

I did a little more digging and this car of my buddies is an Eddie Meyer V8 60

Mike,

Both cars are V8-60 powered, given the exhausts on both sides of the body (Offy midgets almost always had their exhaust on the right side, carburetors or fuel injectors on the left (much less chance of dirt or gravel being thrown up into them that way). The car on the left is a Kurtis midget, but the car on the right is an older design, a rail frame car, which Kurtis didn't build, although it may well have some Kurtis body panels on it, which did happen.

Eddie Meyer came from an illustrious racing family--his brother, Louis Meyer, was the first 3-time winner of the Indianapolis 500 Mile Race (1928--his winning Miller 91 also pioneered the use of metallic paint [gold metallic by DuPont] and is on dispiay in the museum at IMS, Meyer driving a ceremonial lap on the Speedway before the 1978 500, only the second Indy driver to drive his winning car there FIFTY years afterward); later partnered up with Dale Drake to form Meyer Drake Engineering, producing the Offenhauser engines 1945-1966 when he took over distribution of the Ford Indy V8. Louis Meyer won in 1928, 1933, and 1936, was challenging Wilbur Shaw for the lead toward the end of the 1939 race when he crashed (uninjured) and retired from driving. Eddie was best known for his creation of perhaps the most successful 2-carb intakes for Ford Flathead V8's, and his company built up a lot of those over the years, in addition to selling intake manifolds to hotroders all over the country. His racing career was more focused on power boat racing though.

I have to wonder though, if your friend's car isn't a somewhat modified Kurtis, and bears the bodywork from the rail frame car in the pic above?

Art

Edited September 14, 2010 by Art Anderson

[Chuck Most]

That's a great sentiment, but other than the one person who's actually seen the Midget parts, what else could really be added except people saying that they're looking forward to the kits?

Perhaps this... in these PC, sensitive times, should we still be referring to these cars as 'Midgets'?

[Pete L.]

i'm new here , as i just joined . my name is jack kissling . i'm a die hard ... i say ..DIE HARD ford man , and that's all i build . i've been a race fan since , litterally , before i can remember , as my parents started taking me to races when i was a toddler . i have an interest in all forms of racing , and i build mostly race cars [ fords ] and showroom stock cars [ again - fords ].

having introduced myself , i hope no one will mind if i answer a couple of questions .

the offy midget engine was a much smaller version of the offy used in champ cars . it was smaller in external dimensions as well as C.I. displacement . they usually displaced around 110 C.I. ,where as the offys that ran in the '50 and '60's were around 255 C.I.

someone asked if midgets used quick changes . yes , most midgets in the '40's , '50's , and '60's ran QCs . however , the edelbrock was somewhat unique . i've always been interested in that car , so 20 years ago or so i started a mostly scratch built model of the car [ including the engine ] . shortly thereafter i found myself in the middle of a divorce , and the model "died on the vine" ... but that's another story . about the time i started on the model , i called edelbrock and spoke with bobby meeks . he'd been with edelbrock since forever , and built the engines for vic - including the original midget engine . he was in the process of restoring the original car at the time [ a 2 part story on the restoration appeared in "circle track" magazine in the late '80's or early '90's ] , so i thought he'd be the best man to ask about details . well , to make an already too long story short , he told me the original car ran a 2-speed rear .

i belong to a forum called "randy ayers' nascar modeling forum ". don't let the "nascar" fool you , however , as they cover all forms of racing - in different sections . i've posted several pix of the edelbrock , as well as bill stroppe' V860 [ these 2 were considered the best fords on the west coast at the time ] in the "drag racing and open wheel" section of randy's , if anyone would like to check them out . they're in the post announcing the midget kits .

sorry to go on . i'll try to keep it shorter next time .

"genuine jack"

Jack,

Welcome, this is Pete L., I've been here for a while, really a great site. I've got a few midget books in my library

and I'm looking forward to the kits. getting ready to go to the Jersey Shore club tonite.

[Art Anderson]

i'm new here , as i just joined . my name is jack kissling . i'm a die hard ... i say ..DIE HARD ford man , and that's all i build . i've been a race fan since , litterally , before i can remember , as my parents started taking me to races when i was a toddler . i have an interest in all forms of racing , and i build mostly race cars [ fords ] and showroom stock cars [ again - fords ].

having introduced myself , i hope no one will mind if i answer a couple of questions .

the offy midget engine was a much smaller version of the offy used in champ cars . it was smaller in external dimensions as well as C.I. displacement . they usually displaced around 110 C.I. ,where as the offys that ran in the '50 and '60's were around 255 C.I.

someone asked if midgets used quick changes . yes , most midgets in the '40's , '50's , and '60's ran QCs . however , the edelbrock was somewhat unique . i've always been interested in that car , so 20 years ago or so i started a mostly scratch built model of the car [ including the engine ] . shortly thereafter i found myself in the middle of a divorce , and the model "died on the vine" ... but that's another story . about the time i started on the model , i called edelbrock and spoke with bobby meeks . he'd been with edelbrock since forever , and built the engines for vic - including the original midget engine . he was in the process of restoring the original car at the time [ a 2 part story on the restoration appeared in "circle track" magazine in the late '80's or early '90's ] , so i thought he'd be the best man to ask about details . well , to make an already too long story short , he told me the original car ran a 2-speed rear .

i belong to a forum called "randy ayers' nascar modeling forum ". don't let the "nascar" fool you , however , as they cover all forms of racing - in different sections . i've posted several pix of the edelbrock , as well as bill stroppe' V860 [ these 2 were considered the best fords on the west coast at the time ] in the "drag racing and open wheel" section of randy's , if anyone would like to check them out . they're in the post announcing the midget kits .

sorry to go on . i'll try to keep it shorter next time .

"genuine jack"

Offenhauser built DOHC 4-cyl engines in several sizes, actually, primarily to meet the formulae set out by AAA's Contest Board, and later USAC's displacement limits. The smallest of these engines was of course, the Midget engine. The Midget Offy started out at 91cid, and was later enlarged to 102cid, then to 110cid (where it remained until the mid-1960's when USAC allowed it 120cid, it's largest displacement). In addition, a few 74cid blocks and cranks were made, for a handful of supercharged engines. The Offenhauser Midget, just as with every Miller engine before it, and all Offies after it, was built up from a cast-iron cylinder block with blind-bored cylinders, bolted to an aluminum crankcase, its crankshaft suspended round, diaphragm-shaped main bearing webs that were mounted to the crank, then the assembly press-fitted into the case (3 mains in the small midget engine, 5-mains in the larger sprint and championship engines). This made displacement changes easy to do, along with repairs and rebuilds.

The largest engine used in AAA/USAC competition was the Championship Offenhauser, which ran at 274cid (4.5 liters) from 1937-1955. USAC, coming on in 1956, after AAA (American Automobile Association) discontinued its sanctioning of Indianapolis, the Championship Trail, Sprint Cars and Midgets in the wake of not only the fatal crash of Bill Vukovich at Indianapolis in 1955, but also the disastrous crash of driver Pierre LeVegh at LeMans that year, which killed not only LeVegh, but nearly 90 spectators (a couple hundred spectators were also injured, many seriously, when Levegh's Mercedes Benz 300SLR crashed into the crowd, and burst into flames); reduced the displacement for pure racing engines to 255cid, which remained the displacement limit for normally aspirated Championship racing through the end of the Offenhauser and Drake-Goosen-Sparks engines in 1979.

Offenhauser also produced a 220cid engine, to the same pattern as their 274/255 for sprint car racing, where it reigned supreme until Parnelli Jones introduced small block Chevy V8's to sprint cars in 1960, along with another young "hot shoe", Jim Hurtubise. With that, the 220cid engine faded from racing.

Offenhauser also produced the big engine in 318cid form, for use in IMCA in the late 1930's, and at least one of those was installed in a sports car built up from a Miller-Ford frontdrive chassis, for sportsman Tonny Lee, son of the famed Don Lee, 1930's dealer in the likes of Cadillac, Packard, and a few import luxury cars (also campaigning Alfa Romeo and the legendary Mercedes Benz W-163 V-12 Grand Prix car at Indianapolis 1946-48). Frank Kurtis handled all the modifications made to the 1935 Miller-Ford front-drive Indy car chassis for Lee.

Meyer-Drake Offenhauser built up a special 241cid Offy for car owner Merle Belanger, of Crown Point Indiana, which engine won Indianapolis in the Belanger Special, essentially a Kurtis Midget stretched out to 96" wheelbase (the Kurtis Midgets ran a 72" wheelbase, standard for AAA and USAC Midgets) to meet Championship specs, with stretched midget bodywork, and a stretched sprint car tail) with driver Lee Wallard up. In addition, Meyer-Drake Offenhauser built at least one 183cid engine, with centrifugal supercharger for car owner Roger Wolcott, of Wolcott IN, which he had installed in a couple of different chassis for Indianapolis and Championship Trail competition. For 1966, Meyer-Drake built up two versions of a 168cid Offy, one for use turbocharged, the other for car owner JC Agajanian, mounted with a Rootes-type supercharger (similar to a GMC blower common in drag racing back then). The Rootes equipped engine ran only in 1967, but the turbocharged versions, funded by Goodyear Tire & Rubber, carried on through the 1970's, first at 168cid, then 159 cubic inches, finally ending up at 151cid, with most of the developlent work done by the legendary chief mechanic, Herb Porter. Before pop-off valves limited turbo boost, 151cid Offies could crank out over 1100hp at approximately 10,000rpm, with one engine running away on Porter's dynomometer, reaching an astonishing 1,500hp before they shut it down! That does, I believe, represent the most power ever gotten from such a small displacement engine.

The last variant of the Offy 4 was the DGS, or Drake-Goosen-Sparks, which name came from Dale Drake, by 1967 the sole owner of Offenhauser Engineering (Louis Meyer, Eddie Meyer's older brother, having sold out his part of Offenhauser to be the agent for the Ford 4-cam Indy V8, and involved in the Turbo-Ford project as well), Leo Goosen (by then nearly 90 years old and still the only man in the US making his living as a racing engine designer), and engineer Art Sparks of ForgedTrue piston fame. (Art Sparks was an accomplished engineer in both Civil Engineering and Mechanical Engineering, having designed the best of the board--wooden--superspeedways of the 1920's, which became pretty much the pattern for the likes of Daytona International, Charlotte, and Taladega along the way) and the brains behind the Sparks 6-cylinder DOHC's, which were funded by Millionaire Playboy Joel Thorne 1936-46, winning Indianapolis in 1946 with George Robson driving). The DGS was essentially an Offenhauser, with the valves set at an included angle of 60 degrees, rather than the 90-degree angle that had been used on Offy's and their predecessor, the famed Miller racing engines, and the engine that started it all, the 1913 Peugeot GP engine that won Indianapolis that year. The DGS powered numerous Champ cars 1977-82, but was pretty much overcome by the Cosworth Ford DGS, which was pioneered in USAC in 1975 by Vel's Parnelli Jones Racing, stemming from their aborted Formula 1 effort. For 1978, Drake Engineering built up a turbocharged Drake V8, using much of Offenhauser design tradition, along with DGS technology, but it wasn't successful, and only 2 or 3 were ever built (the weak point of that engine was the use of open Gilmer belts to drive the overhead cams--they never did get the bugs worked out of that.

But by 1982, it was all over for the Offenhauser in serious racing, as Dale Drake closed Offenhauser Engineering shortly before he passed away, Leo Goosen passed away in 1979, and Art Sparks retired, by then himself a very old man.

FWIW, as I know someone will wonder, and ask: Offenhauser Speed Equipment was originally produced by a nephew of Fred Offenhauser, who capitalized on his more famous uncle's name--they were not particularly close as relatives after that, from my readings. Fred Offenhauser would not be bothered by high compression heads for mere Fords.

Art

[MikeMc]

Thanks again Art...lots of good info

[Chuck Most]

The more I find out, the more I want 'em!!!!

[oldscool]

Thanks for the history lesson Art. Good reading.

oldscool

[Hondo]

Great to hear this about these kits.

I'm excited that Revell has come out with these, the '68 Dodge Dart and all the new earlier year funny cars.

As usual, I don't have any more time to build, but I'm sure I'll be buying more kits.

I think we should all email or write Revell a big THANK YOU note.......

(And drop a few hints while we do it)

Thanks Revell !!!

Also, welcome ... Genuine Jack.

Edited September 22, 2010 by Hondo

[jbwelda]

anyone have any pics of the motors used in these midgets...the plastic sprues i mean?

i am wondering for instance how many pieces make up a motor assembly, either the flattie or the offy. also the general level of detail of engraving on the block etc.

i guess it wont be long until the first is on the shop shelves.

[tim boyd]

anyone have any pics of the motors used in these midgets...the plastic sprues i mean?

i am wondering for instance how many pieces make up a motor assembly, either the flattie or the offy. also the general level of detail of engraving on the block etc.

i guess it wont be long until the first is on the shop shelves.

JB - I would describe the engines as having enough parts to be very accurate, but not so many parts as to be fiddly in the assembly. And the engraving is consistent with the best of the work out of Revell in the last couple of years - very, very good.

But what impressed me the most was the accuracy of the scale of the parts. For instance, the gear shifter that comes out of the tranny is incredibly delicate in its execution - much more realistic to its real 1.1 size than almost any other scale shifter I can think of, most of which, if scaled up to 1.1, would be 2 or 3 inches in diameter.

Also, as I noted in the original posting way back there, there are fuel lines for the V860 and overall, the Offy looks like the best scale rendition yet of this iconic engine. But as alwasy, the truth will be in the building and as you say, that does not appear too far away (I am estimating mid November to mid December at the Hobby stores).

Hope that helps....TIM

[jbwelda]

thanks tim, very interesting and now i cant hardly wait EVEN MORE!

[Gregg]

Ahhhhhhhh......

[Darin Bastedo]

Phineas J Whoopee, you're the greatest! Thanks for the info art. You really need to write a book on indy cars and related matter. I'd buy it.

[Gregg]

Here are some quick pictures:

More later.

[highway]

Thanks Big Kahuna! I see some nice parts to steal in that kit!

[Danno]

Wow!

Can't wait ...

[iBorg]

I'm worried. After some of the parts on the Ch-Town being so good (check out the transmsson!), the engine/transmission/shifter/driveshaft looks like a step backwards. Also does this have plastic tires? The body looks good but the parts I want to steal may not be any better than what we've had for several years.

The pictures remind me too much of a Monogram kit from the early 80's. I'll be waiting for the build up reports.

Mike

[Gregg]

I'm worried. After some of the parts on the Ch-Town being so good (check out the transmsson!), the engine/transmission/shifter/driveshaft looks like a step backwards. Also does this have plastic tires? The body looks good but the parts I want to steal may not be any better than what we've had for several years.

The pictures remind me too much of a Monogram kit from the early 80's. I'll be waiting for the build up reports.

Mike

No way!

I think this is one of the best kits made in a long long time

The kit has some very delicate parts, and I am impressed with all of it.

The tires are rubber, all six!

Two for the trailer :-)

I am shooting in the studio tonight/tomorrow.

[Gregg]

Here are the studio shots: New Revell Midget

[iBorg]

Those studio shots are quite reassuring. I know what my first kit bash will be!

Mike

[MikeMc]

Very cool.....does it have 2 nose pieces???

[Guest Johnny]

Thanks for the pictures Gregg! Looks like a great deal of care was used to get this car as close as they could!

I have never built a car of that type but it looks like I will have to add a coupleto my build list!

[Harry P.]

Totally not my thing... but WOW!

What a nice kit! PE, satin plated parts, etc. Very nice! Makes me wish this sort of subject matter was my thing! Congratulations to everyone involved in designing/engineering/producing this kit. All new kits should be this nice. Kinda makes me wonder why they're not...

[Guest Johnny]

Totally not my thing... but WOW!

What a nice kit! PE, satin plated parts, etc. Very nice! Makes me wish this sort of subject matter was my thing! Congratulations to everyone involved in designing/engineering/producing this kit. All new kits should be this nice. Kinda makes me wonder why they're not...

What you got to lose Harry?

I have 1 indy car in my collection! I actually built it while on the road in a truck! It was in a sales rack in a drugstore for 2.50 with a wrinkled up looking tube of glue taped to it! I picked it up for something to do while on a three day layover for truck repairs in Idaho! Bought the paint at a hardware store stated it in the Motel room and finished it in the truck!

Never had built one before and never was interested in building one since. But that is now one of my favorite models!

[Rick Forrester]

I SEE SOME HOT ROD PARTS. AND A NICE TRAILER TO PLAY WITH. TIM BOYD HAVE A NICE BUILD UP ON SPOT LIGHT HOBBY BOARD. THE CAR WILL LOOK COOL BEHIND ANY OF THE 50'S PICK UP TRUCKS. JUST MY TWO CENTS. PAPAFO