Revell's New Midget Kits

[Brett Barrow]

How high of a price tag for all those goodies??

I have $24.95 as the SRP for each kit.

Edited September 11, 2010 by Brett Barrow

[Chuck Most]

From the sounds of things... I'll be getting one of each to build... and twenty or thirty of each to donate parts to my various rod projects!

[Brett Barrow]

Tim,

Thanks for passing the information along. This is such a shot in the arm for the hobby! I think Revell finally 'gets it' when it comes to subject matter. I found some great shots of the Edelbrock midget here:

http://public.fotki.com/wackydave/car_museums/vics-garage/

Makes me think Revell may have copied this trailer and car for the model! Clear the bench!

Jim Kampmann

I think they probably did just that, but chose to not release it as the Edelbrock midget to avoid licensing fees.

You can bet someone will do the decals, though.

Actually, my hope is that someone will reproduce the decal sheet from the old Etzel's Speed Classics midget kit, which contained markings for a number of different cars.

Anybody notice what the tow vehicle is?

Hosted on Fotki

How convenient that they just reissued that kit, and the midget will have specific trailer hitch parts to fit it?

[Eric Stone]

I have a feeling they were striving for accuracy because the subject matter is attractive to a very critical audience (age group) who for the most part won't be happy with a sub-par effort.

[tim boyd]

Tim,

Thanks for passing the information along. This is such a shot in the arm for the hobby! I think Revell finally 'gets it' when it comes to subject matter. I found some great shots of the Edelbrock midget here:

http://public.fotki.com/wackydave/car_museums/vics-garage/

Makes me think Revell may have copied this trailer and car for the model! Clear the bench!

Jim Kampmann

Jim...I understand the Edelbrock Midget was the inspiration for the V860 version. A look at the picture at your link only further confirms that. The trailer is also plainly based on the Edelbrock trailer. However, as an example of the fine tuning of the kit, the wheels and tires I saw for the trailer matched the '48 Ford Woody/'50 F1, rather than the chromed reverse wheels on the Edelbrock trailer.

Best...TIM

[tim boyd]

I have a feeling they were striving for accuracy because the subject matter is attractive to a very critical audience (age group) who for the most part won't be happy with a sub-par effort.

Eric....you just summed up in a few words my overall reaction to the Midgets kits...TIM

[Art Anderson]

Jim...I understand the Edelbrock Midget was the inspiration for the V860 version. A look at the picture at your link only further confirms that. The trailer is also plainly based on the Edelbrock trailer. However, as an example of the fine tuning of the kit, the wheels and tires I saw for the trailer matched the '48 Ford Woody/'50 F1, rather than the chromed reverse wheels on the Edelbrock trailer.

Best...TIM

For starters, the Kurtis Kraft Midget was very likely the most prolific of all racecars, anywhere, any time, with somewhere between 500 and 700 built; KK produced them as complete cars, rolling chassis with body panels (for the buyer to install the engine of his choice), as kits (KK cut, bent and fishmouthed all the chassis tubing, supplied raw bodywork), and from Johnny Pawl of Crown Point IN who bought out the midget from Kurtis in the middle 1950's, offered them for sale well into the 1960's.

There were 4 principal engines used in these midgets in their heyday (1947-about 1955): Of course, the Offenhauser, itself a miniature in many ways of the much larger 270 (Championship engine) and the 220cid (sprint car engine), the exception being that since it was such a small 4-cyl, only three main bearings. The engine began in 1935, with a request from Earl Gilmore (Gilmore Red Lion Gasoline) for a reliable engine for this then-new racing series gathering real steam in SoCal. Fred Offenhauser and Leo Goosen (Goosen was the ONLY American who earned a living virtually his entire life of nearly 90 years designing full-blown racing engines, from the late 'teens to the late 1970's) started with the idea of one cylinder block from a Miller 91 straight 8. At 45cid it was too small, so they worked up a new engine, basing it on that, but at 91cid as a 4-cylinder. Still though, it had the same style "barrel crankcase), was blind-bored (block was machined from a single casting, with no detachable cylinder head, DOHC with two valves per cylinder (the larger Offies pretty much all were 16 valve engines), and all the other little details that Goosen had worked up for both Miller and successor Offenhauser. The 1.5 liter Offy grew to 110cid by the late 1940's, finally allowed 120cid in the 1960's.

While American Automobile Association's (AAA) Contest Board embraced the Offenhauser Midget Engine wholeheartedly (being the one "money no object" nationwide sanctioning body) several smaller, more regional midget racing organizations balked, citing the roughly $5000 pricetag (Hmmm, cost controls in racing back then?), most notably CRA (California Racing Assn), URA (United Racing Assn) in the East, and several in the Rocky Mountain states. Enter the 132cid Ford V8-60 flathead (originally designed for use in the Ford Popular built in the UK, introduced in the US as an "economy" engine in 1937, dropped midyear 1940 by Dearborn). It was perfect for postwar racing, given the tremendous interest in hotrodding that little V8. The V860 was actually faster on quarter and eighth mile tracks than most Offies, and occasionally gave the Offenhausers fits on even longer tracks, if it held together. For shorter tracks, the ELTO (Evinrude) outboard motor, with two cylinders ganged together, could outscream even the V8 60, with it's HUGE exhaust pipe (some 6" square) and 2-cycle scream letting fans know that it was in town. Another popular small engine was the Drake, produced by Dale Drake (the Drake of Meyer-Drake Engineering, producer of Offenhausers 1945-1979). Drakes were V-twins, made by producing water-cooled cylinders for the Harley Davidson "Knucklehead" '74'.

But by the 60's, midget owners saw a need for something else to replace the aging V860 and the Drake. Enter the smaller of the two 6's introduced for the new Ford Falcon--those ran successfully for several years, but it was Sesco Engineering that finally broke the back of the Offy. Sesco simply sawed Chevrolet 283's in half, making a wicked inline slant 4 (they did a few, less successful V4's as well). Finally, in the late 1960's, Red Caruthers and others in SoCal added EMPI equipped VW flat fours to the scene, and shortly afterward, Caruthers and Bob Higman (among others) came out with their own, new midget chassis to finally replace 20-25 yr old Kurtis chassis, many with thousands of miles of hard racing on them.

Some firsts for AAA Midgets (and Kurtis midgets in particular): The first serious use of aircraft-style fabricated tubular chassis construction; the first widespread use of disc brakes (from Crosleys), first racing cars to use Ted Halibrand's then new magnesium alloy wheels; and I believe they were where Stu Hilborn's fuel injection systems got their first sustained, real use, in racing. They also were built on an assembly line of sorts at KK, Frank Kurtis even having stamping dies made for the aluminum noses, hoods and tail sections. For decades, KK midgets never had a fuel pump (save for the injector pumps), rather relying on a hand-operated air pump to pressurize the fuel tank (on the left side of the bodywork), and relied on a hand lever to operate the hydraulic brakes. They all but pioneered the universal installation of the various quick change rear axle center sections as well, for quick rear end ratio changes at the track, and used several suspension methods: A few were equipped with 4 leaf springs, but early on, most were two spring (transverse front and rear), a few were built up with three springs, one front, two rear, but finally torsion bars found their way into midgets, before they became popular on Indy and dirt track cars. Early KK midgets used Model A Ford transmissions with V8 gears (just low and high gears), graduating eventually to single speed direct drive and an in-and-out dog clutch arrangement.

Nearly every Indy car driver from 1950 until well into the 1970's cut their racing teeth in a Kurtis Midget, as well as World Champions Phil Hill, Jack Brabham (yeah, they raced midgets in Australia and New Zealand in summer down under (winter in the US), and Mario Andretti.

Cool car subject from Revell--can't wait!!!

Art

[Darin Bastedo]

A couple of observations;

Correct me if I'm wrong but these are actually the first all new tool models from Revell since the Hobbico take over (aside from the Revell of germany kits, and the 69 nova which I understand was in progress at the time of the takeover) Perhaps this is the new standard we can expect from the new Revell.

also, did you ever notice that when Revell/Monogram does a new series of race car kits they set the standard for that genre? Look at the Monogram Stock cars and Prostock cars from 1982 -83, the Sprint cars, the indy cars from the 80's -90s, the 80's imsa mustangs and mustang gtp, the Trans am mustangs and camaros, the ASA short track stock cars, etc. That said can you imagine what could be done if they decided to do a series of Front engine dragsters to the same standard as the midgets?

[Brett Barrow]

A couple of observations;

Correct me if I'm wrong but these are actually the first all new tool models from Revell since the Hobbico take over (aside from the Revell of germany kits, and the 69 nova which I understand was in progress at the time of the takeover) Perhaps this is the new standard we can expect from the new Revell.

also, did you ever notice that when Revell/Monogram does a new series of race car kits they set the standard for that genre? Look at the Monogram Stock cars and Prostock cars from 1982 -83, the Sprint cars, the indy cars from the 80's -90s, the 80's imsa mustangs and mustang gtp, the Trans am mustangs and camaros, the ASA short track stock cars, etc. That said can you imagine what could be done if they decided to do a series of Front engine dragsters to the same standard as the midgets?

I might be wrong, but I think the 62 Impala, 72 Hurst/Olds, and 09 Challenger are all-new tooling that have come out since the Nova, I don't know if they're all done post-Hobbico, though.

And, on the other hand, I've heard these Midget kits are an on-again-off-again pet project that dates back almost 20 years!!!

And it appears that the upcoming new-tool Charger Funny Cars are going to set the new standard for vintage Funny Car kits.

[Art Anderson]

Wasn't the '72 Cutlass done after Hobbico took over? What about the '62 Impala? I thought those were both all-new tooling.

Also, while most Revellogram race kit series were good in their day, the Indy cars are a mess. They shared way too many parts between the March and Lola kits, and they're not very accurate if you look at them closely at all. The AMT kits were much better.

Mark,

As an AVID Indy car modeler for 19yrs (1966-85), I can offer this observation: If there is one constant about Indy cars since the late 1960's, it's that NOTHING is constant with them. Where before, the roadster was the roadster, only a few things got shuffled around on the cars from race to race, by the 1980's, major race teams had a stable full of cars, cars for Indianapolis, cars for shorter ovals, cars for road courses. While they all might have looked, at first glance, to be the same, each one was different--different wings, different suspensions, and often different markings. As such, while Revell-Monogram, and AMT/Ertl as well, liked to capitalize on the notion that "this is the Indianapolis Car", the truth was simply that by the time their people got to it, the car almost always had changed. That was simply due to the time lag, lead-times if you will, that exist in the world of plastic model companies.

This is even true if one looks closely at several of the cars on display at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway's Hall of Fame Museum. Perhaps the most correct car in the place is Foyt's 1964 Sheraton Thompson Offy roadster. That car is exactly as it appeared at the finish of the Bobby Ball Memorial race at Phoenix Intl Raceway that October: It is very much as it raced at the Speedway in May, only a few fittings differ. Mario Andretti's 1969 Brawner Hawk was a backup short-track car--the REAL '69 STP Hawk resides in the Smithsonian. Foyt's 1961 winner is a restoration using a few parts borrowed from other cars in the Bowes Seal Fast stable in that era, the hood panels being from 1962 (no air scoop in the hood in 1961--I was there, saw that car run all day long, saw it up close and personal in Gasoline Alley after that race). The two restored 1968 Lotus 56 Turbines have some inaccuracies as well, notably the over-finishing of inner surfaces (raw aluminum in 1968, now painted grey), even the legendary 1967 STP #40 Turbine appears as it did in 1968 (it didn't run, but was at Indy), no airscoop on the top of the nose in '67.

But, with the wide variety of wing designs used by even the mid-1970s from track to track, different nose cones, and later on, different side pods, even different ground effects undertrays, it's pretty hard for modelers, even model companies, to capture a particular car exactly as it appeared on a particular day, on a particular racetrack. It's just one of the handicaps that exist with such cars.

Now of course, R-M did take some curious, but predictable shortcuts with those car kits, given that each was more or less predicted to be a "one hit wonder", given that modelers who are turned on by kits of them have pretty much only a rather narrow window of interest--by the time the kit comes out, it's already a year or more old in many cases, and "last year's racecar just isn't as commercially interesting as what TV and photographs are showing this year.

Art

[Darin Bastedo]

Wasn't the '72 Cutlass done after Hobbico took over? What about the '62 Impala? I thought those were both all-new tooling.

Also, while most Revellogram race kit series were good in their day, the Indy cars are a mess. They shared way too many parts between the March and Lola kits, and they're not very accurate if you look at them closely at all. The AMT kits were much better.

You are right I forgot about the Cutlass, But I was under the impression that the 62 was based on the 63 impala kit, Though I haven't had a chance to look at one. That is one I have on must must get list

[MikeMc]

Art.....follow this link and if you can How about some info on it. I am a buddy of its current owner and it is under a bunch of parts, but I can get more info

The manifold is marked Eddie Meyer.....

LINK

[tim boyd]

A couple of observations;

also, did you ever notice that when Revell/Monogram does a new series of race car kits they set the standard for that genre? Look at the Monogram Stock cars and Prostock cars from 1982 -83, the Sprint cars. That said can you imagine what could be done if they decided to do a series of Front engine dragsters to the same standard as the midgets?

Darin....as I looked over the parts trees and digested what I saw, thoughts of the original Monogram Pro-Stocks, Nascar series, and Sprint Cars and their ground breaking nature came to mind, as well as their original Boss 429 Mustang, which when introduced in 1982 was the first really serious, super-accurate muscle car model kit of the time, in my view.

Then I told myself, let's not get carried away, Tim. Buy the kit, build it, let it sink in, then make the call. But yes, the thought did occur to me.

As far as the possibility of Revell ever doing front engine rail kits, a few years ago I would have said never in a thousand years. But then again, I would have said the same about a chopped '49 Merc, a truly accurate new tool Chi-Town Hustler, and, well, a series of midgets. Imagine the possibilities...they could call it the 1/25th scale Cacklefest Series....oh...there I go again, getting carried away.

TIM

[Zoom Zoom]

Though I don't have the 62 yet, if it's based on any previous Revell Chevies, it would be the 64, judging from the various photos of the 62 kit I've seen. The 63, while decent is a much simplified kit compared to the 64, & from what I've seen the 62 is as detailed as the 64 was.

I was also under the assumption that the '62 was based on the '64. I don't own a '64 Revell Impala, but a friend brought one to a club meeting for me to look at. They are not the same...I was wrong. Biggest change is the '62 has the frame molded integrally with the chassis, the floorboard/interior stack on top of the chassis...the floorboard of the '64 is molded as part of the chassis and there's a completely separate frame.

[Art Anderson]

Art.....follow this link and if you can How about some info on it. I am a buddy of its current owner and it is under a bunch of parts, but I can get more info

The manifold is marked Eddie Meyer.....

LINK

Doesn't look like any Kurtis midget I ever saw, for starters. Also, while of course early midgets did use stock Model A Ford rear ends, by the time of tube frames, quick change was where it was at in that department. Also interesting is the use of welded up steel wheels, instead of alloys.

Art

[Art Anderson]

Also, the wheels look pretty large for a midget, as nearly every sanctioning body specified 12" diameter rims, about the only ones that size being from Crosleys.

While Frank Kurtis built the vast majority of midgets in their heyday (when it was possible to watch midgets racing literally 7 nights and days a week!), there were others who also built some chassis, from one-offs, to perhaps a half dozen or so.

Art

[Art Anderson]

Oh, I dunno ... possible building variations, perhaps? More reference photos of 1:1 midgets that could be built from these kits? Info on the history of midget racing ... oh, wait, Art's already done a great job of covering that one. How about some suggestions on possible other variants of these kits that R-M could offer in the future? Suggestions for aftermarket vendors on products that could be developed to enhance the kits?

I already mentioned several possible engines. In addition, there were a lot of variations on tires over the years, the neatest dirt track tires having been the earliest ones used: Ward's Riverside Knobbies. They did use steel wheels early on, then Halibrand came up with several varieties of magnesium alloy wheels. Firestone was pretty much the only tire supplier until Goodyear got into racing tires in a big way in the 60's, but Firestone still seemed to dominate.

There was at least one Midget which used a supercharged, 75cid Offy in the 50's, the blower having been taken from a Bugatti Type 35B. Bob Higman, the most prolific midget chief mechanic of the 50's and 60's (also a car owner in his own right) built up a pair of turbocharged 75cid Offies in the early 70's, Larry Rice (later of the "Thunder" racing series on ESPN, drove a Kurtis clone with one of those to an all-time one lap record at Trenton International Speedway, in Trenton NJ.

One Kurtis midget was fitted with a large, squarish fairing in place of the tail cone, to provide a windbreak for a World Land Speed Record bicycle run in the 1950's. Bob Peck, out of Chicago created a low nose with a smaller horizontal grille in the late 1950's, which a lot of Offy midget owners installed (this is the nose that is on the Monogram 1/24 scale Kurtis Midget slot car body/static shelf model kit). And of course, there were many car owners who made up their own nerf bars for the front, and for the sides, and those were as varied as the paint schemes and graphics. Many of them had the owner's initial welded into the front bars as well.

Art

[Bernard Kron]

Great stuff, Art! And so well written, always a delight to read.

...One Kurtis midget was fitted with a large, squarish fairing in place of the tail cone, to provide a windbreak for a World Land Speed Record bicycle run in the 1950's. ...

This is something I know know a litlle about. My recollection, too, was that the record was set around 1950 but it turns out that Alfred LeTourneur, a French 6-day racing cyclist who already held the world's motor-pace speed record for a bike behind a motorcycle on an indoor track set this record on May 18th, 1941 in California, near Bakersfield. He went 108.92 mph behind a midget driven by the great Ronney Householder. I knew that midgets had been around before the war so that must have been a relatively early example of Frank Kurtis' production. IIRC he opened up shop on his own around 1938. Here are a couple of pictures of Ronney Householder and Alfred LeTourner breaking the land speed record. Those must be the steel wheels you refered to. That's some chainring on Alf's Schwinn Paramount! Musta taken him a while to get that thing turning over...

[charlie8575]

These sound great...not a subject matter I'd usually be drawn to, but something about them is making me think I have to get and build at least one of them.

Thanks for the info!

I concur, and I distinctly feel that a lot of these kits will be bought for what sounds like an awesome Flathead to use in other builds.

Charlie Larkin

[Rob Hall]

I'll probably get one of each, definitely not my usual kit genre, though I have been getting into vintage racing car kits (mostly F1 and Indy Car), still these would be something completely different for me...and what about the Kurtis Kraft Indy Car kit that is out now? Is that an old Monogram tool? Not familiar with it.

[jbwelda]

wow. wow X 3!

way to go revell! this is the first kit from revell ive been truly excited about in a very long time. 32 fords are nice and i looked forward to them, but i wasnt excited over them. i AM excited over these. im going to buy two of each just to begin with.

are there any photos built or unbuilt or prototypes available?

way to go revell!

[genuine jack]

These sound very good Tim. Is the Offy in these kits different from what would be seen in the early 60's Indy Roadsters?

i'm new here , as i just joined . my name is jack kissling . i'm a die hard ... i say ..DIE HARD ford man , and that's all i build . i've been a race fan since , litterally , before i can remember , as my parents started taking me to races when i was a toddler . i have an interest in all forms of racing , and i build mostly race cars [ fords ] and showroom stock cars [ again - fords ].

having introduced myself , i hope no one will mind if i answer a couple of questions .

the offy midget engine was a much smaller version of the offy used in champ cars . it was smaller in external dimensions as well as C.I. displacement . they usually displaced around 110 C.I. ,where as the offys that ran in the '50 and '60's were around 255 C.I.

someone asked if midgets used quick changes . yes , most midgets in the '40's , '50's , and '60's ran QCs . however , the edelbrock was somewhat unique . i've always been interested in that car , so 20 years ago or so i started a mostly scratch built model of the car [ including the engine ] . shortly thereafter i found myself in the middle of a divorce , and the model "died on the vine" ... but that's another story . about the time i started on the model , i called edelbrock and spoke with bobby meeks . he'd been with edelbrock since forever , and built the engines for vic - including the original midget engine . he was in the process of restoring the original car at the time [ a 2 part story on the restoration appeared in "circle track" magazine in the late '80's or early '90's ] , so i thought he'd be the best man to ask about details . well , to make an already too long story short , he told me the original car ran a 2-speed rear .

i belong to a forum called "randy ayers' nascar modeling forum ". don't let the "nascar" fool you , however , as they cover all forms of racing - in different sections . i've posted several pix of the edelbrock , as well as bill stroppe' V860 [ these 2 were considered the best fords on the west coast at the time ] in the "drag racing and open wheel" section of randy's , if anyone would like to check them out . they're in the post announcing the midget kits .

sorry to go on . i'll try to keep it shorter next time .

"genuine jack"

[MikeMc]

I love the vintage racing photos Bernard!

I think Art was refering to the steel wheels in the old midget my buddy owns now....here are a few pics...

[MikeMc]

Doesn't look like any Kurtis midget I ever saw, for starters. Also, while of course early midgets did use stock Model A Ford rear ends, by the time of tube frames, quick change was where it was at in that department. Also interesting is the use of welded up steel wheels, instead of alloys.

Art

Also, the wheels look pretty large for a midget, as nearly every sanctioning body specified 12" diameter rims, about the only ones that size being from Crosleys.

While Frank Kurtis built the vast majority of midgets in their heyday (when it was possible to watch midgets racing literally 7 nights and days a week!), there were others who also built some chassis, from one-offs, to perhaps a half dozen or so.

Art

I did a little more digging and this car of my buddies is an Eddie Meyer V8 60

[kingiguana]

Funny thing is Hotwheels had a set with the woody, trailer and a midget ! Mine was yellow woody, with yellow trailer, and a black and white midget I believe. I'm normally not into midgets, but these might change my mind. And I wonder since we cant call little people "midgets" amymore, does that mean thses cars have to be called "little race cars" or perhaps "Full sized challenged" ?