What Irked You Today?

[Ridge Rider]

In all fairness, did any of us learn those things in school? I sure didn't. Whatever "life skills" I have I learned from my family. My Mom taught me to cook, do laundry, and clean my room. My Dad taught me how to manage money and plan for the future. I learned basic mechanics by maintaining lawn mowers, vehicles, and farm equipment. I learned my trade of woodworking thru OJT and trial and error.

My point is: maybe we shouldn't expect understaffed and underpaid teachers to do what families should do.

These courses were offered to me in high school  and I took them.  I also could have easily been a certified welder,  I learned how to rebuild an engine,cook ,sew,type,invest,bank,shop, and play guitar in a school district that still to this day says they are underfunded. This was in addition to 6yrs of wood and metal shop but sadly the structure of education seems more important than the education itself.  To stop teaching because you're underpaid isn't fair to the students and mabey these teachers are in the wrong profession.  My 2 cents. 

[Mark]

When I was in high school, the one teacher that whined the most about being underpaid always had a tan in the middle of winter, this before the advent of tanning salons.  She also whined about not being able to collect unemployment when she was off during the summer.  One kid asked her "didn't you know that when you took the job?"; we never heard that complaint again.  My sister is a teacher; she has a choice of being paid over the course of the school year, or taking smaller payments year round.  She's never whined about being underpaid, at least not in front of me.

[crazyjim]

When a teacher puts maybe 200 grand into their pension fund over the course of their career, then gets to retire in their 50s and live another 20-30-40 years, ultimately collecting millions of dollars of pension benefits, yeah, there's something wrong with that system! (the average retired teacher in Illinois will collect $2,000,000 in pensions).

200 grand in... millions out! The numbers just don't add up. No wonder Illinois is so messed up financially.

And who is paying for those cushy pensions? Why, I am... and all the other working stiffs who don't have a pension. I'm self-employed. I will never have a pension. Yet the money the state confiscates from me via state income tax goes into the pot to pay the pensions of the lucky few. I have to work my tail off to make a living, then the state takes away part of the money I earned to pay the pensions of others.

How is that fair to me?

Yup.  Why stay in Illinois and keep complaining about the state, when you could move and let the fools that are left get another tax increase to make up for you leaving.

[Greg Myers]

 I have no problem with cops and firefighters getting paid well or receiving nice pensions. They put their lives on the line every single day and deserve to be compensated for what are, short of combat duty,

Have you ever been in a class room ?

As an "Overpaid" teacher ? 

When a teacher puts maybe 200 grand into their pension fund over the course of their career, then gets to retire in their 50s and live another 20-30-40 years, ultimately collecting millions of dollars of pension benefits, yeah, there's something wrong with that system!

What's wrong here, is your math. No teacher I know of has ever collected MILLIONS. This is no different than social security, YOU pay in , it's only fair You can enjoy the benefits

, while the last that is, if they stop taking money out for other things. 

Now just imagine if Doctors and nurses felt the same way? Police ? Fire fighters? 

Don't even get me started on the military ! Oh that's right I must have over looked, free clothing, free food, free medical, learn a useful trade, and of course travel to some of the nicest places in the world where the local population just adores you.

[Greg Myers]

I taught high school auto shop for eight years in the late '70's early '80' . Then the district pulled the plug. No more industrial arts. No more vocational arts after all this is the computer age we were told.

The three weeks off in the summer? That was with NO pay. It was little time to continue our education, not unlike doctors, no keeping up with new trends / classes, no pay raise.

Doctors, lawyers have a great support system, secretary's, aids, receptionist, etc. No one does this for teachers.

In the elementary grades most teachers supply materials out of their own pockets, pencils, paper, because the school districts  don't and or wont . The parents try at the beginning of the year , yeah, all that "Back to school" hype you see in the stores, selling BLAH_BLAH_BLAH_BLAH the students really don't need.

Walk a mile in my shoes. 

[Greg Myers]

I agree school systems are top heavy. I agree there are some bad apples, but no more than any where else, it's human nature.

"Why should i pay taxes for schools? when i don't have any kids? or mine are grown and gone?"

You still live in OUR society don't you? Have you checked the cost of housing and feeding a school drop out in prison?

[Ace-Garageguy]

 

Walk a mile in my shoes. 

Greg, the good teachers I had over the years were worth at least twice what they were probably paid, in my humble opinion, and if they have comfortable pensions and live a long time after retirement, as far as I'm concerned, they deserve it. They were inspiring, found ways to make the material come alive, and were thrilled if any kid actually took an interest in learning. To those teachers, their profession must be one of the most constantly demanding and disappointing on Earth. So few kids really seem to want to learn, for whatever reason, and trying to teach to a room full of bored, distracted idiots must take the patience of Job. It must also be one of the most rewarding when a teacher finally sees the dawn of comprehension in a young person's eyes.

But just like in every profession, the ones who are really good are vastly outnumbered by those who just go through the motions.

The RESULTS of today's American educational system tend to make anyone who's awake wonder just what's going on. I'm sure there are plenty of good, highly motivated and gifted teachers who are hobbled by the system, and lose their spark after a while.

The system IS broken, if the countless studies and articles from respected sources are to be believed.

[Greg Myers]

My prideful accomplishments, one student was on the Penske Indy team pit crew. another was Carl Edwards Chief mechanic for several years. Several went into drag racing . of course there were others, many going the other way I'm sure.

[Agent G]

BLAH_BLAH_BLAH_BLAH straight.

 

I have no problem with cops and firefighters getting paid well or receiving nice pensions. They put their lives on the line every single day and deserve to be compensated for what are, short of combat duty, the most hazardous occupations to work in. Every other civil servant.......keep walking.  

From all of us who keep the wolves away from the flock, we say thank you. 

What irks me though? An old friend, 61 years old and only retired for three years, died Wednesday. Now, the widow receives a small percentage of his pension, but where in hell does the remainder of that 35 years of  accrued pension go to? 

Oh and teachers?

Clark County School District teachers routinely put $3000- $5000 of their own money annually into their curriculum for basic supplies. They aren't paid squat out here. CCSD is ranked in the bottom 10 nationwide, in fact I believe they ranked 48 of 50. That's because they don't pay well, benefits are fairly good but hey, 40-45 kids in each class?  We are building the first new school here in over a decade. My BIL retired from CCDC and a co workers wife is a teacher. I get the facts straight out. 

G 

[Harry P.]

From illinoispolicy.org...

The average pension for a career teacher in Chicago who recently retired is $71,700 – a full $24,000 more than the average for all teachers. It’s also more than double the maximum $31,700 Social Security benefit that private sector workers who reach full retirement age can receive. To put that further into perspective, a recently retired career teacher makes more in retirement than the average Chicago household income ($71,020).

And the median benefit of recently retired career teachers is nearly $67,000. That’s 23 percent higher than the median family income in Chicago ($54,188) and more than double the median earnings of Chicago workers ($31,052).

Pension benefits for most career workers don’t reflect today’s fiscal and demographic realities. People are living longer, which means government retirees are collecting more retirement benefits for longer than in the past.

On top of that, the average career worker in Chicago retires at or near the age of 60. some career city workers even retire in their mid-50s while collecting pension benefits equal to most of their final salary. In contrast, private sector workers cannot begin drawing a full Social Security benefit until nearly a decade later – at the age of 67.

The amount of money a career city worker contributes to his or her pension has no bearing on what that worker will receive in retirement. With every paycheck, a city employee contributes a fixed percentage of his or her salary to the pension system. Over a worker’s career, their total contributions are based on their average salary. But pension benefits aren’t based on those contributions. Instead, pension benefits are based on a worker’s end-of-career salary, when their salary is likely to be at its highest point.

Retirees with 30 or more years of service will receive, on average, total pension benefits nearing, and sometimes exceeding, $2 million over the course of their full retirement. In contrast, an individual in the private sector would need to have $1 million to $1.5 million in the bank at the point of retirement to purchase an annuity that mirrors what career city workers receive during retirement.

Rhea Fries Boldman’s experience as a Chicago Public Schools teacher reveals just how out of sync city worker contributions are compared to the benefits they receive. Boldman retired in 2012 at the age of 59 with a final average salary of $87,057. Boldman is receiving an annual pension of $71,674 – and she will receive $2.4 million in pension benefits during her retirement if she lives to her full life expectancy. Yet she contributed just $147,032 to the pension system over her 30-plus year career. Her direct contributions to the Chicago Teachers’ Pension Fund will cover just 6.2 percent of her expected lifetime benefits. Including the interest earned on those contributions, the total would cover approximately 12 percent of her expected lifetime pension benefits.

Chicago Public Schools – and by extension city taxpayers – will foot the lion’s share of Boldman’s pension benefits in retirement.

That’s the problem with the current system: worker contributions are completely unrelated to their retirement benefits.

Current pension benefits for city workers are no longer sustainable or affordable.

It’s not fair to ask Chicago workers, who earn a median income of $31,052, to pay for career government workers to retire in their 50s and draw lifetime pension benefits nearing $2 million.

 

'nuff said..

 

[mikemodeler]

Harry,

There were a couple of articles in today's Chicago Tribune detailing the financial mess of the Chicago Public School system and others in the state of Illinois and how much debt they have. I find it interesting, given your information above, that Chicago Public School teachers are planning on a strike in late May because they feel they aren't compensated properly.

Another problem that plagues these government pension systems is the "loading up" that is done in the final years before retirement. I have known teachers who have sought opportunities to earn extra money in the years leading up to their retirement, all in an effort to increase their pension benefit. They will do whatever they can to pad their paycheck and some of it is downright funny. There is an instructor at my daughter's high school who gets paid $60 to keep score at the basketball and baseball games and figures the extra $$ helps with his "golf fund". Add in the extra couple of thousand they get for being department heads and pretty soon they get a nice chunk of change.

 

I left the cesspool of corruption and high taxes that is Illinois 11 years ago and do not miss it one bit. 

[Harry P.]

Harry,

There were a couple of articles in today's Chicago Tribune detailing the financial mess of the Chicago Public School system and others in the state of Illinois and how much debt they have. I find it interesting, given your information above, that Chicago Public School teachers are planning on a strike in late May because they feel they aren't compensated properly.

Another problem that plagues these government pension systems is the "loading up" that is done in the final years before retirement. I have known teachers who have sought opportunities to earn extra money in the years leading up to their retirement, all in an effort to increase their pension benefit. They will do whatever they can to pad their paycheck and some of it is downright funny. There is an instructor at my daughter's high school who gets paid $60 to keep score at the basketball and baseball games and figures the extra $$ helps with his "golf fund". Add in the extra couple of thousand they get for being department heads and pretty soon they get a nice chunk of change.

 

I left the cesspool of corruption and high taxes that is Illinois 11 years ago and do not miss it one bit. 

Yep, I saw that article. Front page. And yet the teacher's union is talking strike! What planet are these people living on???

You are correct in every way.

[Olskoolrodder]

Not today,but Friday I was irked that I went in for a single "simple extraction (tooth) and cleaning,but wound up with unplanned oral surgery and ultimately 6 teeth lighter than when I went in 

Today what irked me (since I was feeling much better yesterday) was I forget how one feels when recouping from any kinda "major surgery" (doc's words,not mine). Well,at least it's done,and it was free (Friday was a local clinic's annual "Veteran's Free Dental Day")

[blunc]

Not today,but Friday I was irked that I went in for a single "simple extraction (tooth) and cleaning,but wound up with unplanned oral surgery and ultimately 6 teeth lighter than when I went in 

Today what irked me (since I was feeling much better yesterday) was I forget how one feels when recouping from any kinda "major surgery" (doc's words,not mine). Well,at least it's done,and it was free (Friday was a local clinic's annual "Veteran's Free Dental Day")

sounds more like a "complex extraction", at least it was affordable. 

[Olskoolrodder]

LOL,yeah,I like that ("complex extraction")  :)

[Mark]

I was going to mention the "loading up" in the final years...a lot of these people refuse extra assignments or overtime for many years, then grab all they can in the last five years before retirement to pad the pension payment.

In New York, public employees (including the politicians that never met a tax they didn't like) receive pensions exempt from New York State income tax. 

[charlie8575]

 

Give people GOOD basic education, you won't NEED entitlement programs anyway.

This quote perfectly sums up one of the reasons why education now is so terrible in my opinion.

Dependency is usually created. Sometimes, it's beyond anyone's control (e.g. mental retardation, severe birth defects, accidents or acts of aggression not the fault of the recipient.)

But, all too frequently, it's other things in control of the recipient.

Charlie Larkin

[charlie8575]

I have never been more disgusted with our government than I am right now.

Follow along closely, this gets a little complicated.

I had my taxes done the other day. I have three separate IRA retirement accounts–let's call them accounts A, B, and C. Each account is made up of many smaller pieces... I'm invested in many different companies, stocks, bonds, securities, etc. In other words, I'm not invested in only A, B, and C... but rather my accounts A, B, and C are each comprised of many smaller bits and pieces. It's all about diversification, or not putting all your eggs in one basket (or in my case, three baskets).

So it turns out I have to pay taxes on several thousands of dollars of capital gains, even though each of my three accounts (A, B, and C) lost value in 2015. Let me say that again. I have to pay taxes on GAINS, even though my accounts all LOST value overall in 2015.

Here's why: Some of the individual investments contained within my three "umbrella" accounts (A, B, and C) actually made money. So there were capital gains in those isolated cases. But most of my individual investments lost value, the bottom line being that my accounts A, B, and C all lost value overall in 2015.

Yet the IRS doesn't look at it that way. They see the individual investments that gained value and tax me on those. They don't see the many more individual investments that lost money.

Bottom line: I lost money on my investments overall in 2015. I had less money in December 2015 than I had in January 2015. Yet I owe tax on the "gains" I made (but in reality never saw).

It' about enough to make me want to pack up and move to Canada.

This really doesn't ring true. Speaking after spending all winter preparing income taxes, something really sounds messed up to me.

So, it prompts the following questions.

1. Are these Roth or Traditional IRAs?

2. Did you withdraw anything? Even if so, only what you withdrew should be taxable from a Traditional IRA. Roths will most likely incur an penalty of some kind; both have a few exceptions.

While I'm not saying your guy was wrong or incompetent, it might not hurt to have someone else check it over. H&R Block (my employer) does offer a "Second Look" program year-round for free, available to anyone. The only fees incurred are if you decide to file an amended return. 

I do know in some regions they're offering a $50 coupon good until the end of the month for holds; you might be able to use it for an amendment, too. 

Charlie Larkin

[charlie8575]

In this case, living in a sometime backwards state apparently has some advantages.

The "tag" renewal thing started to be a hassle some years back, and the state came up with a simple solution that works great.

Tags must be renewed BY your birthday, so there's no oddball timing to remember and no excuses. You can do it any time in the 90 days preceding the date. Vehicle emission inspection must be done PRIOR to applying for the tag renewal (and within the 90 day window) but when you get the inspection it's automatically entered into the state tag-computer, as is your proof of insurance.

The system has taken the loads off of the tag offices, which would sometimes have very long lines in the past. Now if you go in for something that requires a physical appearance, like a transfer or to take a disabled vehicle off the road or register a "kit" car, they usually get to you in 15 minutes or less.

 

When Massachusetts converted over to sticker-covered perpetual plates in 1967, the Registry of Motor Vehicles actually had a pretty good idea.

The plate expires every two years according to the last number of your plate, with all vanity, antique, motorcycle/moped and trailer plates expiring in November and most commercial plates in Decemeber.

Regular, reserved and other special passenger car plates go by 0-9, with 0 being October. So, my plates, for example on both cars, have a 4 for the last number. So, April of every odd year (lucky me,) I get to renew both plates at $60/whack.

Now, one of my plates will be exchanged for one of the special plates (Masons,) which will come out in September. I chose plate MM1993, using that to commemorate my high school class (with whom I'm very close, as they, in a real sense, are my family.) So, the other plate will expire in March of even years, giving me 13 months between renewals, but the renewal will be $100, with the extra $40 going to the Masonic Medical Library and Research Center being constructed.

Charlie Larkin

[charlie8575]

I don't think the board has a font big enough for me to agree with you (re: the post above about making kids take Economics and passing it)!  Schools are so focused on their core classes and 'no student left behind' that we aren't preparing them for life.  Recently my teenage son was at work when one of the delivery vans wouldn't start.  He was the ONLY person that knew how to jump start it!  Wait.....this was a catering company and there were a dozen people with no clue what to do.   This is why athletes burn through their big contract money when they go pro as the schools don't teach them about budgeting, preparing for the future and spending wisely.  

I am fifty years old and yet to use (from high school):  British Authors (unless I end up on Jeopardy), Calculus (never had to find the area under the parabola), two years of German (unless I buy a Volkswagen).  

Bring back wood shop (teach them how to use tools properly and SAFELY), auto mechanics (how to safely change a flat or jump start a car), How to balance a checkbook and set a personal budget, take home economic to learn to cook for yourself instead of making a daily run to the artery clogging fast food, how to complete a job application and properly interview.

 

Now you know why I stopped teaching.

We have eliminated virtually all that is useful from education.

Charlie Larkin

[charlie8575]

In all fairness, did any of us learn those things in school? I sure didn't. Whatever "life skills" I have I learned from my family. My Mom taught me to cook, do laundry, and clean my room. My Dad taught me how to manage money and plan for the future. I learned basic mechanics by maintaining lawn mowers, vehicles, and farm equipment. I learned my trade of woodworking thru OJT and trial and error.

My point is: maybe we shouldn't expect understaffed and underpaid teachers to do what families should do.

It's a cooperative effort. 

Also, let's be honest, not every parent is handy, a good cook, or similar, and not every kid has the opportunity to learn stuff like you had through informal education and/or work. And there are plenty of families that cannot manage money. 

The classes like IA and Home Ec are taught by specialists who are trained to teach those courses. Sometimes, this is the only exposure these kids get to any of that, and sometimes, it's the only exposure they get to doing it right.

I do agree that things like basic courtesy and respect should start at home, but why not reinforce it in school? When I taught, I reinforced it, sometimes, with emphasis on "force." I had more than a few kids tell me that I was the first adult that actually demanded and expected respect from them. That's disturbing. 

Charlie Larkin

[Kit Basher]

It's a cooperative effort. 

Also, let's be honest, not every parent is handy, a good cook, or similar, and not every kid has the opportunity to learn stuff like you had through informal education and/or work. And there are plenty of families that cannot manage money. 

The classes like IA and Home Ec are taught by specialists who are trained to teach those courses. Sometimes, this is the only exposure these kids get to any of that, and sometimes, it's the only exposure they get to doing it right.

I do agree that things like basic courtesy and respect should start at home, but why not reinforce it in school? When I taught, I reinforced it, sometimes, with emphasis on "force." I had more than a few kids tell me that I was the first adult that actually demanded and expected respect from them. That's disturbing. 

Charlie Larkin

Your points are all well taken, Charlie. I suppose the basic intent of public education has always been to educate children beyond the level of their parents.

I do not know what IA is, but when I was in school, Home Ec was an elective, and almost exclusively girls. Perhaps that has changed. Hopefully, these classes are taught with more professionalism than the so-called "health" classes we had. Those were taught by a coach who went thru the motions, only because he was required to do something more than sit in his office all day.

The demise of "shop" classes is criminal. Not everyone can or should go to college. An alternative that could lead to a decent job is necessary. Plus, all students could benefit from some basic practical knowledge.

Really, all forms of education, including art and music, are valuable. I hope that all students are exposed to everything at some level, even, as Bill said, the elementary level. Managing a checking account is simple adding and subtraction, first or second grade stuff.

[Harry P.]

My high school offered wood shop, electric shop, auto shop, foundry, heck, even aviation shop classes! That sort of education is sorely missed in today's high schools.

[charlie8575]

Your points are all well taken, Charlie. I suppose the basic intent of public education has always been to educate children beyond the level of their parents.

I do not know what IA is, but when I was in school, Home Ec was an elective, and almost exclusively girls. Perhaps that has changed. Hopefully, these classes are taught with more professionalism than the so-called "health" classes we had. Those were taught by a coach who went thru the motions, only because he was required to do something more than sit in his office all day.

The demise of "shop" classes is criminal. Not everyone can or should go to college. An alternative that could lead to a decent job is necessary. Plus, all students could benefit from some basic practical knowledge.

Really, all forms of education, including art and music, are valuable. I hope that all students are exposed to everything at some level, even, as Bill said, the elementary level. Managing a checking account is simple adding and subtraction, first or second grade stuff.

IA is Industrial Arts. 

And yes, its replacement with nothing or PC-ed shop called "technology education" is criminal. It's taken skill and pride and workmanship and extended the trophy mentality to it, along with a lot of drivel. 

I taught business- you know, accounting, career ed., basic business procedures, and economics. Who needs that anymore? Answer: everyone. 

My high school offered wood shop, electric shop, auto shop, foundry, heck, even aviation shop classes! That sort of education is sorely missed in today's high schools.

Aviation? Wow. That's a pretty advanced IA department. I'm guessing this was a Chicago or Chicagoland high school? 

Remind me to show you how I redesigned high school for my M.Ed. a few years back. Not quite like that, but I think you'd like what I came up with. 

Charlie Larkin

[Crazy Ed]

   The High School I went to had the regular list of Shop Classes and an Electronic Class with a fully equipped Lab that Lenkurt Electronics supplied all the Equipment for the Lab.

   There was a Program for Students that were looking at a Career that might not require Collage called 4 - 4. Where you went to school for 4 hours a day and went to work for (at least) 4 hours a day. Something like that today'd make everybit as much sence today as it did then. Those folks hit the floor runing after Graduation. Electrictians, Plumbers, Chefs, Auto Mechanics Welders etc.