MrObsessive Posted April 26, 2015 Share Posted April 26, 2015 (edited) Hi Charlie! Great to finally meet you at the NNL! The test shot I was shown was at a secret place shown secretly! Hee-Hee! It wasn't on display anywhere at the show. I was quite impressed at what I saw as I've been waiting for a good kit of this for quite a few years. And I'll admit that I was one of the loudest critics of the initial test shots that were shown. Some may not make a big deal about the small details in a model kit, but it's those small things that drive me batty as to me, that can change the whole character of any one particular vehicle. Edited April 26, 2015 by MrObsessive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie8575 Posted April 26, 2015 Share Posted April 26, 2015 Hi Charlie! Great to finally meet you at the NNL! The test shot I was shown was at a secret place shown secretly! Hee-Hee! It wasn't on display anywhere at the show. I was quite impressed at what I saw as I've been waiting for a good kit of this for quite a few years. And I'll admit that I was one of the loudest critics of the initial test shots that were shown. Some may not make a big deal about the small details in a model kit, but it's those small things that drive me batty as to me, that can change the whole character of any one particular vehicle. Same, Bill. Looking forward to seeing you next year. Maybe I can actually leave on time and enjoy everyone's company Friday night instead of missing all the fun. And I agree...the details do matter. Effort and results are important. Charlie Larkin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Goschke Posted April 26, 2015 Share Posted April 26, 2015 I think I can safely show this pic of corrections I made to an early test shot of the Ventura. This was done to help further illustrate what would be said to the folks in China needed to be corrected on the body shell, a visual aid if you will. Dave gave me the dimensional information needed--the bottom of the rear window, which also forms the "landing point" for the C-pillars and the alteration required to the quarter window sills came from Dave who diligently photographed and measured an actual restoration for reference. The project meant filing down the bottom edge of the back glass, as well as re-cutting the seam between C-post and quarter panel, then leveling out the window sills on both sides. That also meant filing away the lower ends of the drain moldings and rear window moldings, and ultimately replacing those areas with strip styrene. Last, I had to put a fillet in the corner where the window sill curves upward to meet the C-pillar, then replace the chrome molding atop those sills. The rear window glass had to be "stretched" downward from its original bottom edge. After that, a few swipes of putty, some sanding and shaping, and finally a shot of grey primer to further show the shapes and contours. This took about a week and a half at an hour here, an hour there. It got sent to China by David, and I like to think that it helped expedite the process a bit, as yes, the tool shop did nail it. At any rate, I now know I can correct the same problems that appeared on the first test shots of the Pontiac that also appear on the AMT '62 Chevy Bel Air "Bubbletop" and the Lindberg '61 Impala hardtop! So, I learned something too, eh? That looks terrific, Art! Thanks to you and Dave, and the whole team at Moebius for taking the time and effort to get this subtle but very distinctive aspect of the model correct! I know now I'll be buying at least one more to use the roof and glass on an AMT '61 Bonneville. And probably another if I ever find an AMT '61 Buick Invicta that's affordable. That looks SO righteous! Thanks again, guys! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Anderson Posted April 26, 2015 Share Posted April 26, 2015 John, Pretty much Dave Metzner is the whole team! I, along with a few others, are there to lend a helping hand, if and when we are called upon. But, it's Dave who really does all the "grunt work", day in and day out. I was more than happy to do this bit of work on a test shot of the Ventura, in hopes that it would help expedite things past the inevitable language, even cultural barriers. Art Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The70judgeman Posted April 26, 2015 Share Posted April 26, 2015 @Daniel- You can send all the unwanted 8-lugs my way after this kit is released. I think they're one of the best looking wheels ever made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
High octane Posted April 26, 2015 Share Posted April 26, 2015 That Ventura sure is tempting. I'd like to pass on that kit as I have plenty to build, but??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sport Suburban Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 I'm not big on building Pontiacs of this era but this kit looks so good I have to have one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edsel-Dan Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 Andy, If I can Manage to get any of these, I will TRADE you 8-Lugs fro Stock Hubcaps!!!!!!!!!!! I will likely have to use AMT tires though. Did Catalina/Ventura offer a Convertible?? I would Love one Wide-Whites for that one!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordairgtar Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 @Daniel- You can send all the unwanted 8-lugs my way after this kit is released. I think they're one of the best looking wheels ever made. Awe man, the old Foster Pontiac show. I used to DJ that until they got "Elvis"....LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khier Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 (edited) Did Catalina/Ventura offer a Convertible?? Yessssss......http://www.oldcarbrochures.com/static/NA/Pontiac/1961%20Pontiac/1961_Pontiac_Prestige_Brochure/1961%20Pontiac%20Prestige-14-15.html and even better..... they made Candian Pontiacs with similar dimensions to the Ventura/Catalinahttp://www.oldcarbrochures.com/static/Canada/1961%20Pontiac%206%20Brochure/1961%20Pontiac%206%20Brochure-04.html ... but with 6 cylinder engines, probably taken from cheverolet. Edited April 27, 2015 by khier Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edsel-Dan Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 Wonder if we might be getting a convertible kit in a year or 2??? I Would Love to see that one come out!!! I also wonder if some of the parts will fit an Old Original AMT annual Bonneville??!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Goschke Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 Did Catalina/Ventura offer a Convertible?? Ventura was available only as two- or four-door hardtop. Catalina offered a lower-priced convertible. Bonneville also offered a pricier convertible on the longer wheelbase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edsel-Dan Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 I know Bonney was Longer body & wheelbase, But What about Width?? were Ventura/Catalina narrower or same as Bonneville. That MIGHT tell me if rear bumper will fit an AMT annual Convertible!! Most I find are missing the upper segment like Both of mine!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike 51 Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 (edited) Same width...on 1 - 1s Edited April 28, 2015 by mike 51 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Anderson Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 I know Bonney was Longer body & wheelbase, But What about Width?? were Ventura/Catalina narrower or same as Bonneville. That MIGHT tell me if rear bumper will fit an AMT annual Convertible!! Most I find are missing the upper segment like Both of mine!!!! The only difference between Bonneville and Catalina/Ventura is the overall length (Bonneville was built with an extra long trunk--otherwise, the body is the same as any other full-sized '61 Pontiac. Bonneville has a longer wheelbase (the rear of the frame is extended farther aft--forward of the middle of the car, dimensions are the same for all full sized '61 Pontiacs. Art Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edsel-Dan Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 Now the only question to be answered, is How close to Acurate is the Original AMT Annual vs the new Moebius kit??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Goschke Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 Now the only question to be answered, is How close to Acurate is the Original AMT Annual vs the new Moebius kit??? I have an original restorable built-up of the AMT '61 Bonneville hardtop and judging by photos we've seen of the Moebius kit I certainly think that the new Ventura kit is more accurate. The old AMT kit suffers from a weak interpretation of the roof, particularly in the area of the rear window and base of the C pillars. The edges of the rear window opening are much too thick forcing the window to be recessed too far, resulting in a large "step" where the window meets the roof. These issues can be helped to a degree with careful reshaping of the window and roof. However this is why I'm hoping that the Moebius roof and glass will fit on the AMT body, which otherwise captures nicely the look of the Bonneville. That is dependent on how closely they match in width, length, and curves at the cowl and tulip panel. AMT had two other versions of this same roof in the SMP Impala kit and the AMT Buick kit and they are more inaccurate than the Pontiac. It would be great if the Moebius roof section also fit the AMT Buick and the Lindberg '61 Impala (now the kit to build of that car, which has its own roof issues.) Of course the AMT kit has much simpler engineering, with the traditional four screws and two wire axles, so it's really not fair to compare the two kits on that basis. That said it IS a Bonneville rather than a Ventura, so if you want to have a stable of '61 Pontiacs, you need both! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisBcritter Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 (edited) Edsel-Dan - I've mentioned my '61 Bonneville project before, but briefly: it's composed of a rough builtup coupe, a decent unpainted convertible body I got cheap because it was missing the windshield frame, and the roof from a '62 Bel Air. I made the usual correction in the kickup at the rear quarter windows and it looks about as good as is possible; the Bel Air glass needed reshaping to fit because the roof of the Pontiac was about 3/32 narrower at the body. That said, the rest of the AMT Bonneville looks very accurate for a kit that's 53 years old. A couple issues on the Bonneville I have noticed: The front bumper/grille fit is very sloppy; I had to shim the tabs to get it to line up, and the hood doesn't align with the grille very well. On the driver's side it's molded too short and doesn't reach the grille. And of course the chrome moldings that are supposed to be on the hood are molded into the grille, so that needs correcting. Edited April 28, 2015 by ChrisBcritter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Anderson Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 Edsel-Dan - I've mentioned my '61 Bonneville project before, but briefly: it's composed of a rough builtup coupe, a decent unpainted convertible body I got cheap because it was missing the windshield frame, and the roof from a '62 Bel Air. I made the usual correction in the kickup at the rear quarter windows and it looks about as good as is possible; the Bel Air glass needed reshaping to fit because the roof of the Pontiac was about 3/32 narrower at the body. That said, the rest of the AMT Bonneville looks very accurate for a kit that's 53 years old. A couple issues on the Bonneville I have noticed: The front bumper/grille fit is very sloppy; I had to shim the tabs to get it to line up, and the hood doesn't align with the grille very well. On the driver's side it's molded too short and doesn't reach the grille. And of course the chrome moldings that are supposed to be on the hood are molded into the grille, so that needs correcting. Hmmm, scale, dimensional and proportional inaccuracies all the way back then, in the "Golden Age"? Who'd have thunk it? (tongue in cheek!) Art Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edsel-Dan Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 Well, I have a Convertible so don't really care about roof inaccuracies in the hardtop. All I need to know is whether the Grill/Bumper, Hood, And Primarily the Rear Bumper will fit the Old AMT Body We will have to wait until the kit is available to test that!! I have the Original Grill, but the rear bumper is missing Both upper trim pieces. I don't have a Hood or Fender Ornaments (But those might be different on the Catalina/Ventura) I had a Complete Promo that had been Brush painted, but Wesley's Attacked the plastic It softened it almost Rubberizing it The Boot cover MIGHT fit a 1/32 or smaller kit now!! The right side of the body is Very warped now!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Goschke Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 Hmmm, scale, dimensional and proportional inaccuracies all the way back then, in the "Golden Age"? Who'd have thunk it? (tongue in cheek!) Art I could write a book... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danno Posted May 4, 2015 Share Posted May 4, 2015 Was disappointed to not see the Moebius people and their upcoming kits at the 25th GSL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The70judgeman Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 Sorry guys. Haven't seen this post in a while. @Dan- I'm planning on getting at least a few of this kit. So, absolutely I'd trade the caps for 8-lugs! @lordairgtar- I used to go to almost all of the local dealer car shows during the summer. I have a pretty thick photo album from all of those shows over the years. Great reference pics for me to use. It's too bad those shows aren't around anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfhess Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 Was disappointed to not see the Moebius people and their upcoming kits at the 25th GSL.From my experience manufacturers and big aftermarket companies do not venture to GSL for some reason, although John Grezcula from Round 2 was there in 2011 and 3013. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Anderson Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 From my experience manufacturers and big aftermarket companies do not venture to GSL for some reason, although John Grezcula from Round 2 was there in 2011 and 3013. Traveling to a show of course, does take time away from the "office", and there is also the expense involved. Generally, a show such as GSL is not a huge crowd, as far as huge crowds go. Most of the Mfr's have been at say, NNL-East, NNL Nationals, along with some other model car events which are much closer at hand to them, Considering that Moebius' product development, Revell Monogram, and Round2 are all located in the Indiana/Illinois area, that makes a big difference as well. This isn't to denigrate GSL, just the logistics and some concept as to the cost-effectiveness of mfr's exhibits at what is, for nearly every model company, a rather remote location. Art Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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