AMT Parts Pack prices

[ShredHippie]

Hobby Lobby does sell some of them for about $8.00 before coupon.

I have been getting these parts packs from Hobby Lobby as well for $7.99. Two weeks ago I bought the Gasser Wheels & tires for $9.99. I'm not sure why they are so cheap compared to everywhere else..you would think online sources would be cheaper than a retail store..

I really like the Parts Packs though and I'm glad they are bringing them back and more. Keep 'em coming Round 2!

[johnbuzzed]

I hear knitting is cheap, maybe you could take up that as a hobby then you wouldn't have to worry about it. I'm sure those greedy model company execs won't even notice when they ride from their gated communities at the beach in their chauffeur driven limos on your dime to their skyscraper corporate headquarters.

Wow, who knew that model company execs were so well off!!! Skyscrapers and everything!

[johnbuzzed]

I have been getting these parts packs from Hobby Lobby as well for $7.99. Two weeks ago I bought the Gasser Wheels & tires for $9.99. I'm not sure why they are so cheap compared to everywhere else..you would think online sources would be cheaper than a retail store..

I really like the Parts Packs though and I'm glad they are bringing them back and more. Keep 'em coming Round 2!

I haven't noticed them at Hobby Lobby because, quite frankly, I haven't sought them there. Next time we're there, I'll spend a little more time scanning the racks. Thanks for the heads-up.

[Phirewriter]

Wow, who knew that model company execs were so well off!!! Skyscrapers and everything!

I realize that comment was a bit tongue in cheek, however own your own business once and see how peoples perception of you change over night. You might be living in one room studio (after selling your house and cashing out stocks, etc...) and eating boxed mac and cheese for breakfast and ramen noodles for dinner (if your lucky) No matter how well your friends/relatives know your situation, suddenly your a million/billion/trillionaire! Just because you hang an open for business sign out there! People who don't know you as well will treat you worse. "You own a business" - why you're rich of course!!! And then try to get freebees and what ever else they can cause' you can afford it, right?

Yes it's a bit extreme. But having been though business ownership, I've dealt with behavior like that to some degree or another.

Point being, while Revell is owned by a "big" business (Tower Hobbies/GreatPlanes) and they're not big by alot of standards. Moebious and Round2 actually fall under "small business" Remember that before you start throwing stones at those "evil rich thieves"

They're trying to make it, like a lot of other business out there. And we are not in a very business friendly climate these days.

Edited December 18, 2014 by Phirewriter

[lordairgtar]

I paid $3.199 per gallon for gas yesterday and thought I was getting a bargain

2.35.9 here in Wisconsin.

[oneescalante]

I haven't noticed them at Hobby Lobby because, quite frankly, I haven't sought them there. Next time we're there, I'll spend a little more time scanning the racks. Thanks for the heads-up.

top left side on the model car rack, most of the time they are laying on there back and hard to spot, I was buying a pack each visit till the price was raised from 8 to 10$ those piecrust are sweet! Edited December 19, 2014 by oneescalante

[Mark]

I don't remember ever hearing so much griping about Pegasus wheel/tire sets going for $8-9, or American SATCO tire sets fetching $6-7 when they were available...

[slusher]

Rick you are indeed Krazy. You provide no facts, only your own angry opinion that things are too expensive. But you cannot provide any numbers or evidence to support your position.

You can rant all you want that 'big mean corporations' are picking your pocket, it's obvious that you don't know who you are talking about. There are those of us in the hobby who have met and know the people behind Revell, Round 2 and Moebius. All of them are real model guys who are as excited about the hobby as we are. No corporate ghouls. Knowing the integrity of those involved, as well as their intentions to provide us with new products, I trust their judgement and support them.

And yes, I stand behind my statement that if we don't buy the product, there won't be more in the future. If a company cannot make a profit on a product, it's only common sense that they won't repeat the mistake. Where you guys see buying the product at closeout in the clearance bin as a win for you, you don't understand that it's a major FAIL for the hobby. It means that somewhere in the supply chain, somebody lost their shirt on the product. And business can't afford to repeat that.

Personally I wouldn't be in the business of providing product to this market. Overall, we are known as cheap. It seems everyone is on the band wagon demanding better, more detailed kits and accessories, but when the manufacturers listen to us, we then retract back to "oh, I didn't mean I'd spend money on it." Quite frankly if I was Round 2, I'd be doing detail kits for military modelers. They don't seem to have a problem paying for what they want.

And production costs are less expensive in China. Some of that has resulted in better product. Cleaner castings, better chrome, small items individually taped for protection... all this involves labor that wasn't being done in the US. We seem to forget that we'd get parts slammed in a box with scratched glass and flaky chrome. And since it's been maybe 15-20 years since we sent production off shore, who is to say what kits would cost if we had continued to make them here? Probably a lot more than we are paying now.

Well said, Tom...

[Art Anderson]

Rick you are indeed Krazy. You provide no facts, only your own angry opinion that things are too expensive. But you cannot provide any numbers or evidence to support your position.

You can rant all you want that 'big mean corporations' are picking your pocket, it's obvious that you don't know who you are talking about. There are those of us in the hobby who have met and know the people behind Revell, Round 2 and Moebius. All of them are real model guys who are as excited about the hobby as we are. No corporate ghouls. Knowing the integrity of those involved, as well as their intentions to provide us with new products, I trust their judgement and support them.

And yes, I stand behind my statement that if we don't buy the product, there won't be more in the future. If a company cannot make a profit on a product, it's only common sense that they won't repeat the mistake. Where you guys see buying the product at closeout in the clearance bin as a win for you, you don't understand that it's a major FAIL for the hobby. It means that somewhere in the supply chain, somebody lost their shirt on the product. And business can't afford to repeat that.

Personally I wouldn't be in the business of providing product to this market. Overall, we are known as cheap. It seems everyone is on the band wagon demanding better, more detailed kits and accessories, but when the manufacturers listen to us, we then retract back to "oh, I didn't mean I'd spend money on it." Quite frankly if I was Round 2, I'd be doing detail kits for military modelers. They don't seem to have a problem paying for what they want.

And production costs are less expensive in China. Some of that has resulted in better product. Cleaner castings, better chrome, small items individually taped for protection... all this involves labor that wasn't being done in the US. We seem to forget that we'd get parts slammed in a box with scratched glass and flaky chrome. And since it's been maybe 15-20 years since we sent production off shore, who is to say what kits would cost if we had continued to make them here? Probably a lot more than we are paying now.

VERY well said, Tom!

And, FWIW, I was IN the hobby shop trade back in the early-mid 1960's when the likes of Revell, AMT, and Aurora all went "head over heels" making parts packs for us model car guys. And, guess what? I heard, over the counter, the same grousing and griping, from people completely without a clue.

Art

[jbwelda]

lets document this:

>from people completely without a clue.

whom exactly do you mean by that, Art?

jb

[Danno]

[Art Anderson]

lets document this:

>from people completely without a clue.

whom exactly do you mean by that, Art?

jb

William, just exactly that. Many people have virtually no knowledge of what is involved in the design, tooling, production of anything plastic model kit related. Frankly, just because a parts pack is smaller, has less product in it, does not necessarily translate into a "price" at any stage of the production/distribution/retailing pipeline that is anything comensurate on the basis of "it only has X% of the raw material/parts count as a regular model car kit".

For example, while a parts pack of just tires is released does not translate directly into massive sales just because everyone wants tires for their model kit. Therefore, while there will be the potential for sales, the volume of sales would not be sufficient to cover the investment in tooling, raw materials, production, packaging and distribution IF the price were to be based on "tires are X% of the cost of a model car kit. Were that to be a valid measurement of how much a parts pack of tires should sell for, then for gosh sakes, a fret of photoetched emblems & details ought to be about the price of a 1st class postage stamp, given the miniscule amount of material present in any PE detail set compared the the sheer volume of plastic in any model car kit. Bottom line: It just does not work that way, never has, and never will.

Art

[southpier]

i think he wanted you to "name names"

[turbo nova]

Everyone knows what the question was as well as the dance around LOL. Ive seen tooling brought up several times in this thread and while I do understand that tooling requires touch ups and repairs, how many of these parts packs are new tools? while Im happy to have them and many of the reissues now available it isnt lost on me that in many cases a 40yr old tool is being used to produce a kit that cost more than a state of the art modern tool kit. Ive never worked in the production side of the model industry but fail to see how it could differ that much from any other, yes I understand lic. agreements etc. as they to exist in other industries.

I hope no one in here gets theyr feathers to ruffled over this thread. I dont take this stuff that seriously.

[Casey]

i think he wanted you to "name names"

I think he's looking for Elaine Benes.

while I do understand that tooling requires touch ups and repairs, how many of these parts packs are new tools?

All of the recent AMT tires/slicks/wheels parts packs are 100%, never before offered. The recently reissued parts pack Chrysler and Chevy engines, etc. are old creations from the '60s:

[johnbuzzed]

I would think that the old dies would require a lot of "touch up" before being re-used. That would add to costs. In my opinion, the problem with parts packs is perception- you get some cool stuff, but you pay what seems to be out of proportion for a relatively small, skinny box of plastic. At least with a kit, the box is BIG and you get a lot more stuff, even if you don't use it all.

[LDO]

Which is why I prefer getting a whole kit to rob for parts. You get that cool Jaguar 3.8 inline six, plus some really nice wire wheels, then you have 3 curbside Mk.II Saloons. Nice car on its own, or make a British lead sled.

Some of those original parts packs are just blobs that vaguely resemble what they're modeled after.

[jbwelda]

thanks Art; I wasn't trying to be difficult I was just wondering specifically who you class as not having a clue. because I do have a clue or at least think I do. and I know there is an axiom in marketing about giving people good value for their money. that's all I am saying...if you are going to charge near full kit price (yeah I know its not literally NEAR full kit price but its creeping up toward it) then give the people a full package. I was quite surprised to see what came with that newest tire/wheel set...I thought it was very skimpy for the price and I think it would have been much better if they gave 2X what was included. people aren't dumb and of course a certain segment is always happy with anything they get but for me and most I know, we want value for our money or we just aren't going to part with the money.

the funny thing is about those engine and body parts packs is as I have pointed out before, all that has more or less been available, if not on the new market than at least on ebay, forever and the prior issue of it included all the engines, the body, frame and a bunch of other stuff for only twice or less than twice the price of one engine kit (containing two engines). and that tooling had to cost close to nothing to get ready to run, there was no new tool making involved that I know of, so there was just new packaging and of course the marketing and advertising budget to consider.

jb

[Krazy Rick]

Rick you are indeed Krazy. You provide no facts, only your own angry opinion that things are too expensive. But you cannot provide any numbers or evidence to support your position.

You can rant all you want that 'big mean corporations' are picking your pocket, it's obvious that you don't know who you are talking about. There are those of us in the hobby who have met and know the people behind Revell, Round 2 and Moebius. All of them are real model guys who are as excited about the hobby as we are. No corporate ghouls. Knowing the integrity of those involved, as well as their intentions to provide us with new products, I trust their judgement and support them.

And yes, I stand behind my statement that if we don't buy the product, there won't be more in the future. If a company cannot make a profit on a product, it's only common sense that they won't repeat the mistake. Where you guys see buying the product at closeout in the clearance bin as a win for you, you don't understand that it's a major FAIL for the hobby. It means that somewhere in the supply chain, somebody lost their shirt on the product. And business can't afford to repeat that.

Personally I wouldn't be in the business of providing product to this market. Overall, we are known as cheap. It seems everyone is on the band wagon demanding better, more detailed kits and accessories, but when the manufacturers listen to us, we then retract back to "oh, I didn't mean I'd spend money on it." Quite frankly if I was Round 2, I'd be doing detail kits for military modelers. They don't seem to have a problem paying for what they want.

And production costs are less expensive in China. Some of that has resulted in better product. Cleaner castings, better chrome, small items individually taped for protection... all this involves labor that wasn't being done in the US. We seem to forget that we'd get parts slammed in a box with scratched glass and flaky chrome. And since it's been maybe 15-20 years since we sent production off shore, who is to say what kits would cost if we had continued to make them here? Probably a lot more than we are paying now.

And you can provide numbers and evidence to support your position ?...please enilghten, let's have it. - Guys like Ron, Mike & yourself can contribute love offerings & explanations all you want, I have no problem paying a fair price for an item I want; but I refuse to give into obvious stupidity. In my books, that isn't being cheap; that's being wise.

[Ben]

Ya know, it sure is funny that Moebius released a wheel and tire set that has TEN wheels and tires in it and it costs just about the same as what the AMT Gasser wheels parts pack costs!

The Moebius Lonestar and Prostar kits run about 65.00 so only 17.00 for the wheels and tires is much more reasonable!

If Moebius can do it, why can't AMT?

Edited December 19, 2014 by Ben

[Phirewriter]

And you can provide numbers and evidence to support your position ?...please enilghten, let's have it. - Guys like Ron, Mike & yourself can contribute love offerings & explanations all you want, I have no problem paying a fair price for an item I want; but I refuse to give into obvious stupidity. In my books, that isn't being cheap; that's being wise.

And you have what experience in the industry? - or any business operation for that matter? Love offerings?! Really! As it's been pointed out by myself and the other posters that you are skewering, we do have the experience and contacts to shed some credible light on this. If it's not in line with your OPINIONS, I can't help that.

As to the cost of the Moebius parts vs AMT's? There could be a number of factors. How the production line is managed, they could be sourced from a outside vendor, any number of things can contribute to the cost variances between companies. Every one does business differently, unless of course you believe there is an evil cabal between the model companies to steal all your money and your first born too.

Edited December 19, 2014 by Phirewriter

[Exotics_Builder]

It seems that these topics generate a range of opinions across the board and never get to a real conclusion because those that generated the price do not post their reasoning for it.

For us, there is something called marginal utility. Rather than go through the economic theories, the gist is that there is a price point where the value of the object is not worth the price. And, that price point may be different for each of us and at different points in time. For the example stated in this thread, the value may not be worth the $15 price usually, but could be if one were trying to cobble together a contest entry of a drag car that requires this wheel set. Notice, I said could be.

I don’t know if it still holds true, people like Art or Dave could confirm, but the suggested retail price used to be about twice what the manufacturer sold to the distributor (with no allowances for additional discounts). Thus, a $20 kit at the local LHS would get the manufacturer $10 (gross not net). Various cost components of making a kit (or parts pack) have already been stated, so I won’t belabor them.

One thing both Revell and Round2 indicated to me in interviews, though, is that they cannot just run a partial or specific tree through the molds. This goes for producing a parts pack or any kit variation. Molds usually carry multiple parts trees. If you look at the big block Chevy engine Revell offers in many kits, they don’t have a specific mold for it. They have the design and they move it into another mold pattern for another kit. They may also need to modify the design for the engine bay, mounts, accessories, et al. I’m positing the tires are mass produced separately and just need to be packaged.

Getting to a comment that we car modelers in general are cheap, I have heard that from multiple sources. Even a few local LHS’ that have recently closed felt that. I was cited many cases where modelers would come in and window shop (even looking at kit contents) and then go for it at Hobby Lobby, Michael’s or online. The LHS’ said they couldn’t survive on just selling paints or tools and couldn’t match discounting. So, the inevitable happens.

We all want a fair price, good deal and quality for our money. So I can understand why that seems a tough price to pay. But, I suspect for pricing, the manufacturers looked at their potential market; the cost to produce, package and market; and the projected sale loss of a donor kit with the parts.

Personally, I have amassed a stash of different wheels and decide their value before I put my money Down (sample below).

[Phirewriter]

We all want a fair price, good deal and quality for our money. So I can understand why that seems a tough price to pay. But, I suspect for pricing, the manufacturers looked at their potential market; the cost to produce, package and market; and the projected sale loss of a donor kit with the parts.

True! And the model companies (or any company that produces consumer goods) have a marketing department (or work with one) that works with accounting, that works with manufacturing (includes labor, materials, shipping, etc...) to determine the viability of a product.

After a kit or parts or whatever is announced, a companies will look at pre-orders for an item and make a further determination to manufacture it. Regardless if there is tooling already done or not, there is always labor, materials and those wonderful licensing costs involved. As we have seen by the topics of announced but unreleased kits, often times a company that thought there would be a good market for a kit finds that pre-orders don't justify the cost to produce. That doesn't mean they wouldn't make money on that item. It's the percentage of how much profit vs cost and it may not be enough to take a chance on.

As to percentage of mark up, etc... That is a fluid equation that's determined by the previous factors. Gerry is not too far off (60/40 is a bit closer but is not a fixed in stone equation) As stated the financials are the business's private matter. That being said companies are aware of what many are willing to pay for a particular offering. It's not a matter of sticking their finger in the wind and making a decision based off that.

[Tom Geiger]

Commenting on the last two posts...

There are three, possibly more, supply paths...

1. Entities large enough to do direct orders with Revell / Round 2. These are larger hobby shops that can move full cases of each SKU, hobby dealers we see at shows that do a large quantity of sales.

2. Distributors - These are the middlemen that sell goods to hobby shops. They'll sell broken cases and whatever meeting of the minds there are between them and the hobby shops they serve. I know of one hobby shop that has standing order of 2 of each new release kit from their distributor.

3, Big Box - For this illustration lets include Hobby Lobby, Michaels, AC Moore, and other large multi state or national companies with many stores. They obviously buy in very large quantity, direct from the manufacturers to their own warehouse and distribution network. And on top of that is Walmart, who basically dictates pricing / terms to their suppliers. The competition to get a product into the big box category is wicked.

Each of these has it's own set of numbers and since we are talking about privately owned manufacturers, we don't have access to their costs / sales breakdowns. The business model of markup in retail, marking up something 100% (called marking it up a 'key') is probably out the window in this complex business world today. The cost of a single model to our Number 1 example is obviously less than our Number 2 example since we've eliminated a middle man. The Number 3 example obviously buys at the lowest possible price because of the huge quantities they purchase.

Edited December 19, 2014 by Tom Geiger

[Phirewriter]

Thanks for the breakdown Tom. This is an excellent explanation for my point of "not cast in stone or fluid equation"