Motor City

I bought a book on Nascar for one of my nephews about ten years ago. I had wondered when they went from racing real cars to close facsimiles, as I had watched both on television. According to the book, 1967 was the year that teams could start using a template to approximate the looks of a real car, but had to meet certain critical dimensions. I also read elsewhere that Ford chassis have been used on all cars for years, but that may have changed within the last several years. I quit following when they did that "chase to the cup" thing.

'69 Coronet R/T convertible sale prices: green $1580.55 yellow $3550.00 red $3920.00 a blue '67 Corvette convertible went for $1654.09 and a red '69 Mach 1 went for $1869.00 All were from the same seller. Years ago, I remember a guy selling a black '69 Mach 1 promo for $25.00 when most good promos were selling for $10.00. Other sellers were outraged at the audacity of the asking price, but he got it. I went back to a nearby table to get a purple '70 'Cuda for $10.00, but it was sold.

4 people and a small doghouse

I see lots of Fusions around here (Dearborn & Detroit). People quit buying cars because the rear seats barely fit two adults (uncomfortably, I might add) and you hope your head doesn't hit the ceiling when going over a bump since the sloping roofs aren't tall enough, creating huge blind spots (buy our expensive blind spot alert system) and the trunk openings are totally worthless. Thanks, but I won't be buying a Chinese-made Focus. I'll keep my fleet of old GM cars.

What's the name of Dave's company?

Art, I built the Jo-Han Fleetwood Town Car years ago and still have it. I was at a classic car show several years ago and saw the real thing. As I recall, it had black painted simulated cane work. It was a painted effect much like the plaid-side Willys Knights. I think two of these Fleetwoods were made with the caning. I was shocked that it wasn't real caning.

I think we should start a Go Fund Me page so you can buy an authentic AMT or MPC Corvette kit from that era. I've got a Palmer '72 El Camino that I think will fit into the bed of one of my other El Caminos.

How does a goofy thing like that even come to market when they were SO MANY good cars that could have been tooled instead?

The '69-'72 GP had a long hood, but I think the '71-'78 Eldorado and Toronado would win that contest! I think there is a strong market for some large 1970s cars. 1970 was the last year more than one make of full-size car was available to build as a kit or buy as a promo (Impala, Bonneville, Wildcat, Coupe deVille, LTD). That's pretty sad as there were many cars from that period that should have been done. Most of the tooling is now done overseas at lower labor rates, and I think the naysayers on this board would be surprised at how well some of these would sell. Those who want typical family sedans and wagons can probably forget it as there is really no market for those outside of the resin casters. How about a '70 or '71 Sport Fury GT, '70 XL, '70 or '71 300, or a sharp convertible like the '71 Delta 88 Royale? Going down a bit in size, how about the '72 Thunderbird, Mark III, Mark IV, and Mark V, and '71-'73 Rivieras? How about an Eldorado convertible? For the intermediates, a '70-'73 Ranchero GT, or a '77-'79 Ranchero GT, along with early to mid-'70s El Caminos, would sell, as would a '73 442 and any Indy Pace Car. How many Yenko or Baldwin Motion Camaros or other cars we never saw do we really want as a kit? Wouldn't most of you rather see cars you remember from that time period?

Roy and Bill, I was referring to the optional tires available on certain sporty cars in the 1960s. As most of you know, Instead of a whitewall tire, a redwall tire was standard or optional on many of the muscle cars. A goldwall (or goldline) tire was available on the mid-'60s Corvette, and bluewalls (I think they were called Blue Streaks) were available on one or two models. The lettered tires pictured earlier in the thread were what was used for Indy car and drag racing.

The 500 was introduced on the '70 Eldorado. It was the only engine available on the Eldorado from 1970-1976, followed by the 425 for 1977 and 1978. It became standard on the other large Cadillacs for 1975 and 1976 only. It was never an optional engine on the other Cadillacs. There is a tune-up or emissions label on the cars with the 500 engine with a '501' printed on it. It does not refer to the engine displacement, but I don't know what it signifies. former owner of a '71 Eldorado, current owner of a '68 and '77 Eldorado

thank you very much, Casey; that would also be useful for some of the mid-sixties AMT kits that came with decal whitewalls

Hi, Does anyone make the gold line tires like what was available on mid-sixties Corvettes? Also, what about the blue line tires? I remember AMT had a two-sided tire on their '69 Impala kit that was red on one side and blue on the other.

My first car was a '71 Eldorado and it was a great highway car.

The '71 Eldorado promo came in versions with single and dual exhaust, but only the single exhaust version is correct. I wonder if Jo-Han used the Toronado chassis because they ran out of Eldorado chassis. By the way, I remember when the '72 Toronado came out and the E.P.A. rated it as having the worst gas mileage of any American car that year.

It's actually the '77 Cutlass body updated. The all-new Cutlass came out in '78. The '80 442 used the formal roofline and is quite rare. That's what I was expecting to see here. Oh, well!

I remember the AMT '69 Impala SS Custom Coupe had plastic front axle assemblies that were a bite to install, and never looked right. I eventually sold it and bought the MPC convertible version of it. That's a sharp looking Torino!

I've bought some of the Moebius models (300s, Hudsons, Comet), but haven't built any yet. I have no interest in the big Ford trucks or Nova, but both will probably sell decently. I'm hopeful that some Ranchero GT, Buick GS, and '65 442 kits eventually get made. It's a different world today than what we had to choose from decades ago, so I've been buying old promos and kits instead.

They only have it listed for the '70. Does anyone make the '71-'72 hood?

I just looked at my collection of promos. The '79 is Camel with buckets and rally wheels. The '80 is Cinnabar with buckets and rally wheels. The '81 came in Brown and Silver, with buckets and wheel covers. The '82 is Dark Redwood with bench seat and wheel covers. They are quite affordable and a lot easier to find than the earlier kits. It took me about 10 years to find the '82 kit at Toledo before the Internet was popular. I almost bought the kit new, but I didn't buy a real El Camino until I ordered my '87, which I still have. I will use the '82 and '86 SS kits to build a replica of '87.

The Royal Knight kit is of a 1979 model. The Black Knight appearance package was only available for the 1978 El Camino SS. The GMC Caballero Diablo is of a 1980 model. The Monogram kit of the 1978 Black Knight is 1/24th scale. Promotional models were made for the 1979-1982 model years only. The real 1986 and 1987 El Caminos are identical, so the 1986 SS kit can be built to represent either year. As I recall, the promos were only available in tan, cinnabar (orange), dark claret (mahogany) and silver.

Note the wider heads and valve covers used on the 396/427/454 (this is a '66 Impala SS with the 427 option). The '66 AMT kit still used the small heads. The MPC kits of the '70s had the larger heads and painted valve covers for building an accurate big block Impala or Caprice.

oops ... Gerry's correct on the '65 kit having the 409 (at least the fender emblems are)

Snake, That's kind of a trick question. AMT's '65 and '66 Impala SS models both have front fender 396 emblems ( I'm not sure why the '66 wasn't upgraded to a 427). The engines look like the previous generic engines of 265/283/327/348/409 variety. I can't get at my AMT '67 Impala SS 427 kit right now, but the MPC '68 and '69 Impala SS 427 kits have larger heads as used on the real car. AMT's '69 Impala SS 427 is also a big block. If you're looking for an authentic big block, the MPC 454 as used on the '71 Impala and '73 Caprice (and possible later) kits is a good one to use. I owned a '73 Caprice 2-door hardtop with the 454 that my Dad ordered new, so of course I built the kit to look like it (black, black vinyl top, red interior). A trivia note: all '69 Impala SS models came only with a 427 engine, but the engine was also available on all full-size Chevies. The MPC '72 Impala kit is a 400 even though the box says it's a 454, and the fender emblems are also 400.

The Riviera was reissued in the mid-'70s in a nice metallic gray or silver (Buick called it Silver Cloud). The wagon would be a great basis to make the rare 2-door wagon that Chevy made from '64-'65.