StevenGuthmiller

You could very well be right. But, if they're going to do it, is it too much to ask that they do it right? Either that or scrap them altogether. Steve

Ooh! Now I'm scared. That's a good idea! Have them read it. Maybe they'll address the situation so that some confidence can be restored for the next time, and then they won't need you to run interference for them. No "keyser", this is not about me. It's about every individual who enters a model in a show and expects some semblance of fairness if awards are offered. I entered a few builds, and left the voting to the other participants, expecting that it would be "participants" doing the voting, and planning on nothing else. I suppose that I could have voted for my own model and had my wife and everybody else that I know vote as well, because lord knows, that door was left standing wide open. I guess it's more important to insure that the organizers don't get their feelings hurt than it is to guarantee that there is integrity in their voting system. Steve

Agreed Wayne. The guys from RPM that run the NNL North show know exactly what they're doing! This is without a doubt the show that I had in mind when I made the statement about never exiting a show a feeling like something weird was going on. I believe that those that organize and attend the show are all absolutely conscientious about the responsibilities that they are tasked with. That includes voting for prize winners, whether it's for club or peoples choice awards, because despite some peoples assertions that the organizers of these shows are the ones that deserve our deference, I believe it's the participants that should always be provided the ultimate consideration. If you don't respect the participants enough to get it right, how can you expect them to return the respect. Steve

You're correct. It is unfair to those that made the event happen. The participants are the ones that made this event happen. Without "us" there is no event. Steve

You're probably right Steve. I believe that it's time to have the thread locked. It's likely to begin going off the rails at this point. Steve

It's no surprise to me Steve. These individuals just don't like me personally for whatever reason, so it was completely predictable that they would eventually materialize on this thread with no other agenda than to contradict. I think most people that have responded so far understand what I'm saying. It's very simple. If you are going to have a show and offer a prize that is supposed to be awarded to the "best", then at the very least, be sure that the people who are voting at least have some sort of interest in providing a meaningful verdict. Otherwise it just becomes a joke and serves no purpose whatsoever. If some individuals can't understand that, well, so be it. Steve

Not everyone "deserves" a prize. Foremost the person that received it in this case. The "rules of engagement" are the responsibility of the promoters. I suppose I should have expected that there would be apologists afoot. It doesn't surprise me in the least. Steve

Really? I never have. I always walk away feeling satisfied that everything was conducted properly in general and any winners deserved what they received. In every case that I can think of where I have attended a show, I can't think of one case where something this blatant has taken place. All that you need is a pair of functioning eyeballs to see that there was some hanky panky going on here. Interpretation always enters into any kind of judging, and there is the possibility that the best examples might not always win, but if something this conspicuous had happened at any of the shows that I have attended, I would expect that there would be a great deal of suspicion.......and rightfully so. Steve

A hope not either...... because it shouldn't! Participating in the show that you gentlemen put on was a delight, and it should not be equated with this sort of event. I had high hopes for the ACME show as well. Participation numbers were astronomical, and it was highly entertaining to view all of the really spectacular builds displayed there. But this sort of "black mark" doesn't help anyone that hopes to put on a really great show, whether it be online or in person. I can see how anyone looking at the abundance of terrific models on display in this show in the future and then seeing what was selected by our "peers" as being the top dog in this category would view the entire enterprise as farcical. I normally don't pay very much attention to the winners in a show because as a general rule they are all absolutely worthy of the recognition that they receive. But when this result was first revealed, my immediate reaction was to chuckle a little, followed by puzzlement and finally irritation. It just shouldn't happen if the promoters of the show expect to respected. Steve

Personally, I would consider this one more desirable. At least I would know that it's not an AMT '57 Chevy in a freshly shrink wrapped vintage box! And for a third of the price! Steve

I really think that this was the ultimate mistake made. There were no fees collected for entries, which is why there were so many. But the fact that they allowed absolutely "anybody" to vote, whether you were involved with the show or not, set off red flags with me from the beginning. I honestly don't understand how they didn't think that had a large probability of becoming an issue. Steve

If this is the quality of events that we can expect, who needs them. As I said, if they're going to take the time and responsibility of offering any kind of prizes at all, wouldn't it benefit all involved if the selection of the recipients of those prizes at least had some integrity? If you just want people to display their work, fine. But if you're going to offer prizes, you should probably get your act together first. This is not the only online event to take place this year. I participated in the "Desert Classic" show, and while it was a smaller show, it was run with the utmost integrity. Likewise, I just returned from an NNL event in Bloomington Minnesota last week. I didn't win a peoples choice award their either, but the folks that deserved them did. Steve

Yeah, but they're both super models when you compare them to someone like this. Steve

If you haven't heard from them by now, you likely didn't win anything. I won a couple of F1 models and was notified by email almost a week ago. Steve

I have the same attitude as well. When I attend a show, I have no expectation of winning anything, and I don't plan on it. I just let the chips fall where they may under normal circumstances. But when something like this takes place, which can really only be explained by some form of gerrymandering, it has a tendency to burn my backside. If there are going to be any kind of awards offered at all, one would expect that there should be some semblance of protection to ensure that the art displayed is considered fairly, and at least my expectation would be that the best examples should be recognized. I understand that we live in an "everybody gets a trophy" society these days, but what is our incentive to do the best that we can do, at least in the perspective of contests and shows, if all that's really needed is an established network of people to cast votes for you. In my opinion, this sort of development is a black eye for model shows and will only serve to dissuade attendance in this type of show. I have no particular appetite for a wall full of plaques, and to be totally honest, I didn't even vote in this contest, but we should all be able to expect that the voting system should be secure enough to ensure that the best examples get the attention that they deserve. I have the feeling that the biggest mistake made in this contest was allowing any Tom, Dick or Harry to vote, whether they were interested in the hobby or not. It should have been limited to the participants who know something about what they're looking at. I suppose I should digress and say that this might not have been a case of stuffing the ballot box. It could just as easily have been a bunch of jokers who just wanted to screw with the results because they thought it might be funny, but then I would have expected the same type of results in other categories, which didn't seem to be the case, or at least not to the same extent. Either way, I wouldn't think that it would help the credibility of the show in the future. At least I can tell you that it has damaged my view of it. I will ignore it next time around. Steve

Or you could fill it with water and add a few guppies! that'll keep the dust out! Steve

Could it be that special deference was given to "junior modelers"? There was no juniors category and I don't think that there was any way of discerning who the models were built by prior to voting, so I think not. I really think this is a prime example of some sort of "telephone campaign", calling everyone you know to have them log on and vote in favor of your model. I really have a hard time coming up with any other plausible scenario. I really think that this is the sort of thing that will eventually kill model car shows and contests. Steve

My expectation was never really to win anything, and to be honest, I really didn't care much. As I said, there were a ton of really fantastically done entries. I would have been happy to see "any" of the really fine entrants recognized for their work, and I'm sorry, but this Charger should not have even ranked within the top 100! Even someone with no modeling knowledge whatsoever should be able to see that there is no comparison between the above Charger, and something like these, which are just a couple of a myriad of exceptional builds displayed. Steve

I understand how the "good old boy network" phenomenon works, but usually there is at least the "appearance" that the winning model is a good one. In this show, there were 1,257 participants, 4,534 entries and 2,896 votes. Just guessing, I would say that there were several hundred "factory stock" entries! There was a "TON" of fantastic builds entered, yet somehow we are supposed to believe that the "best" model was a blue 1967 Dodge Charger with a dull paint job, no represented body trim or badging and sewing thread engine wiring? I mean, c'mon. If these are the kinds of outcomes expected, I think it would be beneficial to all involved just to dispense with the participant voting and peoples choice awards altogether. It's quite apparent that the quality of the model has nothing to do with the result. Either the people voting have no concept of what they're looking at, or the fix is in. I suspect a combination of both might be at play. Of all of the hundreds of fine models entered in the factory stock category, we are supposed to believe that this is the finest of them all. Steve

I don't know if anybody has seen the winners from this show, but I just have to vent a little. I understand that it's an NNL event and that the awards, if any, are chosen, for the most part, by the participants. (and in this case, anyone who cared to visit the site and vote) But after seeing some of the results from this particular show, I'm not sure if I'll bother participating in another one like it again. As I said, I understand that it is not a "judged event", but it's also pretty obvious in some cases that the guy who can get the ballot box stuffed most efficiently, wins. Maybe I'm naive, but I just kind of expected that the "best" models in a particular category would receive some recognition. That very obviously did not happen. What happened was that the people who could scrounge up the most family members and friends to vote for their model gained the recognition. I won't say that this happened in every case, but there is no doubt that it did in the "factory stock" category. I can honestly, and literally say that almost every other entry in the category was a better model than the winner! That's saying a lot, but that's what I'm seeing. I apologize in advance if the winning person is a member here, but I'm sure that even he knows that he could never make a convincing case that his model was the best in the category. Anyway, I just had to get that off of my chest. It just seems as if these shows are a bit of a waste of time if the best of the best are not recognized, but the best "campaigners" are. Steve

The only particular ones that I can remember driving in my dreams were a late 60s to early '70s Chevy 4x4 in medium green, and a dark green '69 Pontiac Grand Prix. The Grand Prix kind of threw me, which is probably why I remember it. I own a turquoise 1:1 '69 Grand Prix with a painted top, but the one in my dream was dark green with a darker green or black vinyl top. Your guess is as good as mine. If memory serves me correctly, the truck looked a lot like this: And the Grand Prix like this: Steve

Okay, that's easy. The Godfather!! No doubt whatsoever. Steve

I agree. I've never been a Joplin fan, but my point is that currently, unless you look like a model, your chances in the entertainment business are pretty limited. Talent is secondary. The world is full of people that can sing like a bird, but if you look like Steve Buscemi........good luck! Steve

Maybe. But if she looked and sounded like Janis Joplin, you wouldn't even know who she was by today's standards. The difference is that nobody will ever forget who Janis Joplin was. Steve

To an extent. There was no problem distinguishing Hank Williams from Johnny Cash or Willie Nelson. Likewise, though I suppose that you couldn't call them ugly, Patsy Cline and Tammy Wynette weren't going to win any beauty contests. Today, regardless of the music genre, all that you need is a pretty face and a fairly good voice to become a star. No other talent required. I like to use some of the truly talented people from my generation of rock music as examples of people that would most likely not make it by today's standard of "talent" due to their look and sound. People like Mick Jagger, Rick Ocasek, Joe Cocker, Alice Cooper or Lemmy Kilmister wouldn't have a chance in hell today, just to name a few. Not a single melodious voice among them and they were all about as appealing to look at as a hat full of *ssholes! Steve