DoctorLarry

I sent him a Facebook message. He posts sometimes on a FireAm page for enthusiasts so we shall see.

I found a copy of Herb Adams' book "Chassis Engineering" on EBAY and ordered it. The reviews were mixed but it might have some insights on how he would set up a chassis. One reviewer complained it was too simplistic and another said it spent too much time on oval track cars so maybe for my purposes it will give me some insights. I did some web searches for Matt Adams and VSE and it seems there is not much out there. He may have closed up shop or just not have much of a web presence.

If you look closely at the Gray Ghost rear end, as you correctly note, the upper control arm points are lowered (they normally attach to "ears" cast into the diff housing) and the upper control arms are now adjustable tube creations. If you look closely at the lower mounts you also see that they are lowered by pieces of angle welded to the old mounts. You can still see where the old lower arms mounted. Also, as you note, they boxed the lower arms for strength (which GM did on later models) but on the close up you showed earlier evidently the shocks were off the car. This photo shows them mounting in nearly the same place as stock-probably to the lower mounts. The insight is always appreciated!

Looking at the top photo I posted of the rear seat area, the two plates bolted to the floor pan may have been reinforcements for something. Did the Gray Ghost have rear shocks on it? I can't see it on any pictures.

Here is a chassis picture that looks similar to the one above:

One less thing to build, then..

Looking at the top photo I posted of the rear seat area, the two plates bolted to the floor pan may have been reinforcements for something in the rear suspension. They are in front of the rear axle so unlikely they are for a sway bar. On the A body platforms, sway bars mounted to the lower control arms in stock configuration. In the Grey Ghost Tempest, it mounts more like a 78-81 Camaro rear bar with the post mounts and the bar behind the differential. I think I will scratch build something and add the lines for the rear differential cooler. I'll use the rear suspension from either the Cutlass floor pan I'm using or from a 66 GTO. The Revell 66 GTO has very detailed suspension components. I'll need to find some rear disc calipers and rotors but I think I have a junk 67 Corvette I bought for parts somewhere. The rest of the front suspension is from the Cutlass. I will have to flip the sway bar over and fab up front frame rails and shock mounts but this is really easy to build because it is so stock! I used part of the roll cage from a NASCAR Buick Regal and scratch built the rest along with a resin firewall that I made for my Grand Ams. I ordered some resin Holley Dominators and have an intake that closely matches the one on the car. PPP wheels, Monogram 1/24 tires (larger size) and my own body and I'm almost there on parts. It also has a non-NASCAR seat so I ordered a resin Don Hardy race seat which matches pretty well. This could be the most expensive modeling project I've ever done...

Thanks for the shots-those really help. Adams was quoted in Motor Trend something to the effect of "everybody else just buys stuff from Holman Moody and they all do the same thing. We don't think you need to do that and we think we can use factory parts" so your photos show that. A very rough idea of what he said, obviously and since he was a suspension engineer I believe he could back it up. The Motor Trend article mentioned that they lost brakes in the race because the chrome wheels flexed more than they thought and ground the bleeder screw off a rear caliper-which was from a stock Corvette so they were using stock parts as much as possible. I just wonder if he used a rear say bar on the Grand Am. The one on the Tempest did not mount in the stock locations and would be invisible from the rear of the car.

Photos courtesy of the Petersen Archives. Thanks to Swede 70 for the link as it has a ton of archival stuff.

I've been mining these archives and am still amazed at the "stockness" of this car. The only thing lacking is a detail shot of the rear suspension. There appear to be some sort of traction bars on the lower control arms and there are some reinforcing plates bolted to the rear seat area but it does not look like truck arms. Also can't see a Panhard bar or Watts linkage in the back to control side-to-side motion. I also can't tell whether it has a nine inch Ford rear or a GM rear so I will wing it on those details. The rest of the car has a ton of remarkably detailed pictures so I should be able to replicate it pretty faithfully.

I saw the photos of the car after the wreck. There was not much left and unfortunately it was a fatal crash.

How about this one?

How about this one?

Tim, any decal possibilities on that blue car and who does it belong to? Thanks both of you guys!

Tim-any more pictures of that one? Mike-thanks for surfing the site and tipping me off. The pictures are amazing. There are over 100 shots and they show everything in detail except the undercarriage. My engine is inaccurate as well-their engine used a single plane intake like an Edelbrock Torker and a Holley Dominator. I had to order some resin carbs and will scratch build the intake. It looks like an earlier period car. I mean this thing is really stock-frame, firewall, suspension, dash, steering column and wheel, floorpans, everything.

Can't tell from the pictures, but I would not be surprised if it had stock rear suspension as well. No evidence from interior shots of floor pan mods for truck arm mounts.

It still has the stock steering column! The ignition lock is still in there. My respect for this team just went way up. No wonder people thought they were crazy.

Looked closely at the pictures. The car has stock frame and floor pans. It was not "clipped" in the front with a Holman Moody clip. Front bars and roll cage were added, shocks were added and the front sway bar was flipped and mounted above the frame. Looks like stock control arms and steering as well. This thing was REALLY low-buck! It was literally a STOCK car that had safety stuff added and then, as they say, went racin'. It has the stock cowl and firewall still welded to the body like it left the factory. The trunk was cut out and re-done for the fuel cell but this thing is really stock. How cool that they could run very competitively with professional racing teams with this car. Of course I will basically start over and save my current frame for another body. I made up a resin frame and floor pan for my Grand Am cars so I guess I will start over with that as well as my resin firewall. Good thing I made molds and copies of all the stock stuff! I have a new Pepsi Laguna that will sacrifice many of the other parts and another Elliot TBird chassis that will give up the truck arms and nine inch rear. Back to the table here. Interesting treatment of the rear spoiler as well. I always wondered why you saw squarish decals with 69 on the rear-the entire back of the spoiler was flat and covered up the rear tail lights. There is a shot with that panel off and you can clearly see the rectangular tail light openings. This is really cool and exciting (except starting from scratch, of course).

Totally changes the build as the interior and underhood are different than the model. Looks like it comes back apart for about the 50th time.....

3 full pages, 48 images per page. Everything-now I have to change some things around. Thanks-what a treasure trove.

Have not seen those but I will! The Youngblood cutaway does not have a lot of underhood or interior detail Thanks! LB

Look to the right of it and in the second picture. There is a box with hat appears to be battery cables coming out.

I'm trying to finish my 73 Grand Am project and something has been stumping me for awhile. Where are the batteries on these cars? The early AMT Chevelle had a battery in the trunk but I have not seen any vintage photos with batteries in the trunk. Most interior shots don't have them either. I read that late model cars have them in the driver footwell extending into the fenderwell. I have seen one older picture which appears to have a box there. I think it was Benny Parson's 73 Chevelle. If you look at the Rhine Built web site for the Gray Ghost 77 Cutlass it shows a box with cables behind the driver seat behind the cage. I also saw a picture of a mid 70's Monte Carlo where it was in the driver rear wheelwell extending into the interior. Any thoughts?

Here's a 1973 427 Chevy that shows the pump and pan:

Here's a three stage that might be easier to model. This is what I am doing on my 73 Grand Am.