Mark C.

The point is, I’ve been reading here and on other forums that sci-fi collectibles is a much bigger market than car models and that in some cases the only way we could ever expect to see certain new releases is if they are tied to some successful sci-fi show or movie. I think the Supernatural Impala is a prime example of this. I can say with confidence that we would never have gotten a 4 door hardtop Impala without the tie-in to the show. I have no source of sales information (which some here appear to), so I have no idea whether the sci-fi affiliation is a guarantee of sales success or not. But going by what has been said here, I expected the Stranger Things kits to have been gobbled up by the sci-fi collectors… but it’s being speculated that they are a sales flop and that Revell doesn’t know what it’s doing. I’m just trying to get some clarity on the subject. For my perspective, I’m purely a car guy and have little interest in modern sci-fi (or superhero movies, etc.). So I still buy mostly based upon vehicle subject matter, not show affiliation, etc. In fact, I have never seen any of these shows, and there’s a good chance I won’t. I actually wouldn’t even know about them if not for the models with the show branding on them. Edit: I should add that I have purchased copies of these kits just because I want to build the vehicles depicted. They will not be built to replicate any of the versions depicted in the shows, however.

It has been written that the science fiction show tie-ins expand the market from just car and truck builders to SF builders/collectors as well. Perhaps the show’s popularity is declining? Otherwise, not sure why they wouldn’t be selling as an all-new tooled, detailed square body Blazer should sell well on its own merit, shouldn’t it? Seems like it should check all the boxes to be successful. Did I mention that the Blazer is all-new tooling, highly detailed, and n-o-t a reissue? What’s the deal? Isn’t new tooling what everybody wants?

Wishing I had bought one of those when they were still cheap…

True, but then why do a separate frame? Other NASCAR kits at the time had fairly simplified chassis. On the other hand, it did occur to me that they already did have a stock version in the unassembled promo, so they would have been competing with themselves.

Thanks! I was the one who posted the SCR article on Bobby Allison’s shop (building a ‘72 Monte) on Randy’s board, and I recall the discussion that gave me the impression that he was the outlier and that most teams were running truck arms out back. What I didn’t know was what the Fords were doing at the time. From what you say, the JoHan Torino would technically be correct, but may not have been as competitive due to the stock suspension in the kit. And, likely a whole lot more correct, chassis-wise, than the MPC NASCAR Torino, which IIRC had leaf springs (?).

What about the use of “truck arms” for NASCARs with coil spring rear suspension (Mopars used leaf springs)? I’m pretty sure that some Chevys were using truck arms around 1972. Did Fords use them as well? Also, back to the JoHan Torino in particular, are people surmising that the separate frame, totally stock body with opening hood, etc. were only meant to create a NASCAR version? I can see adapting the totally stock promo body tool with as few changes as possible to create a NASCAR, but then why not go the extra step to include the promo interior, wheels and tires, and some stock engine parts for a stock street version? They could have made it a 2 in 1 (or 3 in 1 with some drag race or custom/street machine parts, and potentially opened up some sales opportunities for the kit. I’m sure a lot of it revolved around JoHan’s declining business model at the time, but looking back, it would have been unique subject matter and seems (retrospectively) like a lost opportunity. Thoughts?

Makes one wonder whether JoHan had planned to do a full detail kit for a stock Torino that was cancelled for some reason…

That’s exactly it, but also there is the context that there are several paths to staying in the black, and all of the complexity involved in that boils down to creating a product that will motivate customers to part with their money. IMHO, companies that produce reissues or modified reissues (i.e. clones) are satisfying a segment of the customer base who really want these types of kits and are willing to pay for them. I think that we can achieve clarity about threads like this when we can admit that they are really just about the individual not getting exactly what they want. They see companies investing money (to remain profitable) in product that they are not interested in, and creating a scenario in their minds that if all these companies were to instead invest in all new tooling for subjects that they want, the hobby would be better. In the end, we all know that it is far more complex than that, but the end result is that more modellers get stuff that they want, because of the diversity of products that are being offered by the various companies out there. I’ve said this before, but IMHO we are now living in the golden age of modelling, especially when you combine it with the incredible variety of aftermarket products available. It’s human nature to want to complain, however, no matter how good we have it, and (IMHO) that’s how threads like this are born. I say: don’t worry, be happy, and enjoy all the hobby has to offer!

I get the hubcap thing. I mean, if you’re going to tool up all new hubcaps, then why wouldn’t the designer take a few minutes to research how they are supposed to look and get it right? With that said, I am super stoked to get this one. In fact I will officially place this as my #1 on the must have multiple copies list! I can’t say how much joy it brings me to see Round 2 re-engineer the tool and bring it back to us, better than ever! Thanks folks! 👍🏻

I missed the Camaro the first time around, so my reasons are a little selfish in that I don't want to pay ebay prices for one. But I agree that all of the above are great kits, and that the 'Cuda would be a good one too. Actually toss in the '67 Dodge Charger while you're at it. I know the MPC reissue is coming out, but IMHO the Revell is head and shoulders above it in terms of kit quality.

Still hoping for a full detail new tool of a 1970 Plymouth Sport Fury GT, so yeah, they’re obviously not doing enough! I agree that some reissues of more recent kits like the ’67 Camaro would be nice!

I couldn’t agree more, there are a lot of vehicles that were ignored over the years for one reason or another, a lot of them were the cars that you once saw everywhere, and have since seemingly disappeared from the planet. The 1:1 collector car world has followed a similar path. If you pick up a collector car magazine (if they still exist) or go to a car show, you would think that 99% of the cars built were 2 door hardtops or convertibles, all in their high performance version. However we all know that what roamed the roads back then were mostly 6 cylinder 4 doors, etc. and not so much big block muscle cars. I think that the model companies have always tried to find the most profitable subjects to produce so that the bills could get paid so they would focus on muscle cars and whatever else were people’s dream cars. On the same vein, if a car company offered them a contract to produce promos, then popularity goes out the window, because these contracts are guaranteed income, and can easily have a marketable kit spun off that will have a lower threshold to break even. So IMHO that’s why we haven’t seen some of the subjects that you have mentioned - the promo market largely dried up during the 1970s and this is what we were left with. On a more personal note, I have always been a fan of the ’73-‘77 Collonades and was hoping that a major manufacturer would take on the subject and do a ‘73 GTO, 442, GS, SS, etc., but I have since decided that’s not going to happen. Luckily, many of these are now available as 3D print kits, and although I don’t have a printer or experience with that type of print file or software, I have found a printer who will print them out for me. Many are available not just as 2 doors but 4 doors and wagons as well, and El Caminos. So far I have gathered… ‘73 GTO, Grand Am, Lemans 4 door and wagon, Laguna. ‘74 El Camino, Malibu 2 door. ‘77 Lemans 2 door, 4 door, and wagon. I also got some Rambler Americans, in wagon, 4door, and SC/Rambler versions, a couple of 4 door Valiants, ‘69 Dodge Polara 2 and 4 doors, ‘69 Dodge W100, etc. That has largely satisfied my want for offbeat new model release subject matter, but I don’t feel that I am done yet… This is why I feel that we are in the golden age of modelling, and I have a hard time feeling overly negative about what I wish the model companies would make for me. To each his own, though, as we all have our right to our own opinions. 👍🏻

So the only kits out there are reissues? I picked out one or two in my post above that aren’t. Honestly, I think the future for those who want new kits all the time are to follow some of the 3D designers out there. For example Andrey Bezrodny has probably popped out 20 new designs this year (I didn’t count), and he says he is okay with others selling prints of his designs, as long as people don’t sell his files. So you can either get a printer and do your own, or find someone who will print them for you. They’re a little more work than a standard kit, and they’re not perfect, but it’s one way to satisfy an appetite for new releases. We have never had a better time in the hobby, IMHO.

These 'reissue complaint' threads pop up from time to time, and they usually follow the same pattern, somebody doesn't like that some companies reissue so many kits from old tooling, people who like reissues chime in to say why they like them and what it means to their little corner of the hobby, and then some back and forths happen, sometimes people get a little snippy, but usually the conversations are quite civil. This thread is nothing new in that respect. So... I beg to ask, exactly what is the desired outcome? For example, would you like the companies who own vast catalogues of old tooling to melt them down for scrap metal so that you don't have to see them in your LHS or your favourite online store anymore? Would that accomplish anything other than to take away part of the hobby that some of us enjoy? As far as new tooling goes, you don't have to look too hard to find new tooling by American companies (with the exception of Atlantis, perhaps). Let's review a few. I'm sure I will miss some, but the following kits that I'm aware of are made from tooling that was new within the last 5 years or so. In the cases where new tooling was added to kits with relatively new tooling to create a new version, I will include those (thinking of the Revell '71 Olds 442, for example). I'm sure everyone will have an opinion, and that's fine. It's why we post here. Revell: '71 Olds 442, '71 Mustang Boss 351, '71 Mustang Mach 1, '22 Corvette Z51 coupe, Stranger Things 1985 Blazer, '22 Corvette Convertible, sixties/seventies Ford Bronco and halfcab, Jeep Wrangler Rubicon? (not sure if it meets the timeline or not, but it is relatively new tooling), '85 GMC Jimmy, Stranger Things GM van, etc. I personally would include a number of other 'recent' kits, like their mid sixties Chevy pickups, '68 and '69 Chevelles, Novas, '70 Charger, etc., as even if the tooling is 10 - 15 years old, the designs are still somewhat modern and they go together well and include a lot of detail for the most part. Moebius: Just about everything in their line is relatively recent tooling, with all of their Hudsons, big Chryslers, Comets, Ford pickups of many years and configurations, '65 Plymouths and Dodges, '64 and '65 Chevy IIs, '61 Pontiacs, Ramp Trucks, etc. Too many to list individually for me. More coming, too, with '67-'72 Chevy pickups, Ford Maverick, etc. Salvinos Jr: Numerous versions of current and classic NASCAR kits (excluding the Monogram tooling, though some of it has been modified to create new versions not previously kitted), newer Modifieds and Indy cars as well. Round 2: 2 recent Bronco kits, Green Hornet Black Beauty, '21 Charger R/T, Charger Police, Charger Hellcat widebody coming soon, etc. As another poster had mentioned, their recent and upcoming cloned kits are basically new tooling of old kits that haven't been available for decades in many cases, but have been retooled and reengineered to fit together better and add detail. There are so many of those, including: '64 Cutlass convertible and hardtop, '63 Chevy II wagon, '65 and '68 GTOs, '66 Mustang 2+2, '59 Cadillac Ambulance, '64 Chevelle, '66 Shelby, '71 Demon, '68 Coronet HT and convertible, 1960 and '63 Ford pickups, etc. Upcoming: '60 Nomad, '65 Barracuda, '72 Duster. Round 2 has a huge catalogue, much of which is pretty much straight reissues, which I think hides the fact of how much new stuff and heavily modified/newly tooled older stuff they have. To sum it up, in my opinion we have an embarrassment of riches in model choices. Then add in all the great Japanese and European kits out there. I'm lucky in that I like a mixture of newly tooled kits and reissues - for me it's mostly about the subject matter, but there is truly more stuff out there than I would ever have time to build. I say we are very fortunate, so don't worry, be happy!

I specifically didn’t mention any of these older subjects because the narrative has been that they only appeal to a dying demographic (mine) and that the only way to continue to bring young modellers into the hobby is to give them subject matter that they can relate to. Is a 17 year old really going to want to build a ’53 El Dorado? For that matter, would there even be an onslaught of gen X or boomers that would buy enough to make it profitable? That sounds more like a case for 3D printing than a major model company. Meanwhile, reissues and clones of old tools make more esoteric subject matter viable from a business perspective, and Round 2 have been bringing back subject matter that hasn’t been available for many decades. I really can’t see anything wrong with that.

When I'm thinking of the kits of "everyday" vehicles that were produced back in the day, the financing for many of them came from the 1:1 car manufacturers, where they would contract out to the model companies to produce promotional models for them to give away in dealerships. The model companies would have much of the tooling costs paid for through these contracts, and because of this could then produce models of cars that most people wouldn't have necessarily considered to be the best subjects for model kits (like Chevettes, etc), while still remaining profitable. I can't recall whether the Lindberg kits of the 1990s fall into that category, though. but I thought some of them were offered as promos if memory serves. As for modern days, it seems that promo models are few and far between, and now seem to be mostly diecasts when they do happen, so any new plastic kit subject tooling would have to be completely financed by the model company, which would mean that they would have to sell a lot more just to break even. The reissues and clone kits seem to be no-brainers in terms of being able to produce a kit with much less investment (and thus less-risky business case), so presumably production runs can be smaller while still remaining profitable. I'm thinking that companies that have a sizeable library of old tooling would be foolish to not use these to help keep the lights on. The thing I find strange about these discussions is that at times people seem almost put out that a company is producing something that they are not interested in. IMHO there's so much product out there that there is something for just about everybody... in fact more than any one person could possibly build unless the only thing they do is build model cars. Even then... So why not just be happy that companies are still making model cars that we can buy. There's lots of stuff that I have no interest in (like sci-fi, show rods, etc. I don't even really know what gundam is all about, so...), but others do so I'm glad that those people get what they want, meanwhile I'll buy what I want. As always, thanks for the discussion.

Why am I reminded of Bugs Bunny when I look at this?

Are there a lot of new American vehicles that people would be excited about to prompt massive model sales? Well, you have new pickups and the sports cars (Mustang and Corvettes that have already been covered). Pluck those out and you’re basically left with a bunch of ‘meh’ SUVs, since the US car companies have pretty much shunned cars. I do wonder how the new Bronco and Charger (which is no longer a new car) have been selling for Round 2 though. Meanwhile the Japanese and European model companies have been covering that product, so I am left wondering what are the expectations of those who are complaining about reissues? Just some pickups (which would be good sellers)?

Not seeing any flaws. However, I am seeing a beautiful stratchbuilt model of something that used to be relatively common but is now quite scarce. Very cool!!!

Unfortunately, this doesn’t show well for the quality of their engraving in general, reversed or not. Perhaps the best fix would be to foil copy using the AMT body for the lettering?

There’s also the 340 from the AMT ‘71 Duster (externally the same as the 273), and IIRC the AMT ‘41 Plymouth had a small block Mopar in it. Don’t recall the transmission attached though. IMHO, with some fiddling the standard 273 could be replicated fairly well, but the hipo Commando version had some dress-up parts like finned valve covers and unsilenced air cleaner. FWIW, I seem to recall that somebody was doing these in resin or 3D, but I’m not sure now… Then there’s also the slant six option from the Lindberg/AMT ‘64 Dodge and Plymouth. 😉

As long as the world trade situation is mired in power struggles involving groups who have no interest in playing nicely together, our hobby will continue to be mired in uncertainty. Meanwhile, it’s fun to talk about model cars. Of the years I mentioned, 1974 speaks the loudest to me. It would be fun to see a reimagined tool of the ‘74 Z-28. Will it happen? I haven’t the foggiest. Meanwhile, I’m saving my nickels for multiples of the ’60 Nomad, the ‘65 Barracuda, and the ‘72 Duster! It’s not like we have nothing to look forward to, but if I’m not allowed to talk about other subjects I’d like to see, the ‘discussion board’ might become a little… boring? 😁 I might suggest that anyone who wants to see the amazing people at Round 2 continue to turn out these model kit gems, plan to buy up as many of these as your hobby budget allows. Voting with your wallet is the best way to ensure that they keep working at making our modelling dreams come true. 🙂

I included it because the 2nd gen Firebird stuff would still be around so only the stuff to backdate it to a ‘74-6 would be needed. S’pose that should be a separate thread tho. Point taken. 😊

I agree with the idea that the best outcome for this kit would be cloned ‘74-‘77 Camaros and ‘74-‘76 Firebird Formula and T/A. There seems to be a lot of ‘78 up Camaros and Firebirds out there in plastic model land, but virtually (literally) nothing from the mid ‘70s. If I were king of Round 2 (lol), that would be fairly high on the list. YMMV 😊

It’s nice that there’s a 3D offering of this subject. Thanks for posting it. If I can offer some constructive criticism: the roofline looks a little flat in the renderings. Also it’s too bad that they didn’t design the bumpers and grille as separate pieces. Detailing would be much more difficult this way. That said, with limited choices, sometimes you have to take whatever you can get.