Darts, Valiants, Falcons?

[Aaronw]

So I'm not a racing guy, but as many of Moebius' and some of Revell's car choices have been based around the option for additional re-boxing in various racing flavors, I'm curious if any of the early "small" American cars of the early to mid 60s that predated the pony cars of the mid to late 60s, Falcon, Valiant, Dart, Chevy II etc hold much potential here following the racing re-box idea. I know they were used in racing, but don't know if they were used enough (or used by the right people) to possibly pop up and surprise us with a new kit.

[disabled modeler]

Aaron...Id welcome any re-issue of the small 60s cars by AMT,MPC,etc. Ford Falcons,Mavericks,Plymouth Valiants,Darts,Chevy II coupe or wagon,Pontiac Tempest.. hopefully specially if they could/would do the as 3 in 1 kits.  I guess we can dream for them to make a comeback someday.

[unclescott58]

There are a few of us out there who like those early compacts. I recently built a 1967 AMT Falcon. I'm not big into racing for those type of cars. So I built my '67 stock. And this is not the only Falcon in my collection. I have a '60 too. I also have a '61 and '64 Comet. Second gen Corvairs (of coarse). A few late Dusters and Darts.

I'd love to see more of these cars. A '60 or '61 Valiant would be cool. Any first gen Corvair. I'd love a a stock '61 Pontiac Tempest with their half a V8 engine. A '64 Studebaker Daytona hardtop or convertible would be cool. I'm still waiting for Round 2 to reissue the MPC '71 Demon. I'd love a '67 Dart GT convertible. Any Falcon would probably end up in my collection. A early 70's Maverick and Comet would be high on my list.

Tied to this subject, I'd also love see a first generation Corvair Greenbiar and Ramside pickup truck. Along with a Falcon Club Wagon and Econline pickup.

Early compact stuff was cool. I want more.

Edited September 8, 2015 by unclescott58

[unclescott58]

Add to the above. If Round 2 still has the dies for any of the above kits in the Craftmans Series. I' be happy to see those come back. I know they had a very nice little '63 Falcon convertible in that series. Where is it now?

[Greg Myers]

[Jon Haigwood]

Are you including the 66 Barracuda like the blue one pictured? If so definitly

[Tom Geiger]

For the Mopars...  There never was a Dart kit, but I have a resin one, I forget who made it.

For Valiants, there was a kit made for every year 1960-1965, based on the Chrysler ordered promotional models for each year's car.

SMP made the 1960-62s

Revell made a 62 Valiant 4 door sedan, the only one that came with an engine  (not promo based)

AMT did the 63-65 Craftsman curbside kits.

AMT also did a 66 Valiant promotional model but there was an issue with the roof line not being correct, so it appears that they had the run destroyed, and a few of them got spared.  I have one, but it's a promo in the $500-700 price range. There was one on eBay last time I looked.  Motor City Resin Casters offer the '63 Valiant and '66 Barracuda as resin kits.  I believe they also had the rare '66 promo, although I don't see it on the website today.  I have one of those.   I know one of the guys from the Detroit Resin group has been working on a 1963-66 Valiant wagon for a long time now. 

R&R used to make a 1960 Valiant wagon.  I have two of those, one was damaged so I was modifying it into a 1962.

 

Edited September 8, 2015 by Tom Geiger

[Greg Myers]

Are you including the 66 Barracuda like the blue one pictured? If so definitly

Came out before the Mustang (Pony Car ) so I guess so.  

[Jon Haigwood]

I picked up a partial ERTL (?) 66 Barracuda kit. I am not sure what kit its from as there was no box or instruction sheet. I did find a AMT 2 in 1 kits where this kit may have originated. There is also a 65 Barracuda. I believe they came with a slant 6 and a Hemi engine. 

[Ace-Garageguy]

So I'm not a racing guy, but as many of Moebius' and some of Revell's car choices have been based around the option for additional re-boxing in various racing flavors, I'm curious if any of the early "small" American cars of the early to mid 60s that predated the pony cars of the mid to late 60s, Falcon, Valiant, Dart, Chevy II etc hold much potential here following the racing re-box idea. I know they were used in racing, but don't know if they were used enough (or used by the right people) to possibly pop up and surprise us with a new kit.

Just the tip of the iceberg...Mickey Thompson was in at the beginning of the whole A/FX thing with a Tempest.

                                                                                                        So were the Dragmaster team with the Golden Lancer.  

In 1960, Nascar created the Compact Sedan Class, with Valiants, Falcons and Corvairs as seen below being the contenders...

Marvin Panch running a Valiant on a road-course...     

Though the A/FX cars were re-engined and the Tempest in particular heavily re-engineered, the potential for racing issues is strong (EDIT: IF any company ever thought the market would support a first-release stocker).

I've been working on-and-off on both the Thompson Tempest and the Golden Lancer for several years, but my interest is primarily historical. Lots of mods to do the the Tempest, and all you end up with is a model that most people see as a stock Tempest with some decals and no hubcaps.

I've also started a 'phantom' A/FX Oldsmobile F-85 (Johan-based) built along the lines of Mickey Thompson's Tempest, but running an Oldsmobile 394 engine. To the best of my knowledge, no such car was ever campaigned, but it could have been.

 

Edited September 8, 2015 by Ace-Garageguy

[Casey]

I'm curious if any of the early "small" American cars of the early to mid 60s that predated the pony cars of the mid to late 60s, Falcon, Valiant, Dart, Chevy II etc hold much potential here following the racing re-box idea.

Very little, IMHO. Vintage Can Am and Trans Am cars steal most of the non-open wheel spotlight, and even now most will shun a compact economy car for a sportier, larger car with a V8, regardless of which car(s) might've had a racing pedigree or not. Trumpeter already released their Falcon kits a few years ago, and I doubt Revell nor Moebius would have any desire to dabble in any other GM, American Motors/AMC, nor Chrysler compacts. I'd love to see the AMT Jr. Craftsman Chevy II, err, Nova wagon backdated from it's current Funny Car-ish state, but that seems too much to expect from Round2 at this point. JO-HAN's Comet Pro Stock kit is still around, and I wouldn't be surprised to hear either Round2 or Moebius has acquired it, so there's still hope for that kit, even though it's very far from stock.

TL/DR: No, not popular enough to sell to a mass audience.

[Tom Geiger]

Actually in the first Compact Class race at Daytona in 1960 there were 8 Valiants entered and 7 of them were the first over the line. The other one was driven by Richard Petty and wrecked out.  Later on, parts from that car wound up on the 43 JR Barracuda.   The race was the first race ever televised on TV.

It's been said that Chrysler was late delivering the cars to the teams, and they were in the middle of prep for a much more important race at the time so those Valiants were pretty much stock, with the factory hyper pack six.  The series only lasted three seasons, for a bunch of reasons. First, nobody wanted to go back out and race against the Valiants!  Second, teams didn't want to invest much in cars that were only raced once a year and the race wasn't popular with the fans. 

The last year, 1962 the race was pretty dead and propped up by the France family, who actually went to local dealers and bought cars off lots, and recruited folks to drive them.  One of them was auto writer Denise McCluggage, who of course wrote about the experience. That year Lee Petty won the race, and that was his last win, retiring right after that.  The Valiants were later seen at road races like Watkins Glen and for sale in the small photo ads in the back of period car magazines.

Yea, I kinda like the Compact Class Races!   I have a lot of things I've collected over the years, but still need some video.  I don't know how much exists, but once "Nightline" did a Daytona anniversary special and there was a split second view of the Valiants racing across the finish line. 

 

[Tom Geiger]

I picked up a partial ERTL (?) 66 Barracuda kit. I am not sure what kit its from as there was no box or instruction sheet. I did find a AMT 2 in 1 kits where this kit may have originated. There is also a 65 Barracuda. I believe they came with a slant 6 and a Hemi engine. 

There were three Barracuda kits from that era. There was a 1964.5 and a 1965.. essentially the same car except the earlier one had a "Valiant" nameplate on the rear panel. The '64 was the original pony car, beating Ford Mustang to market by 14 days! On the real car, '64 was the last year for the push button transmission and the heater controls were knobs instead of the '65 and up slides.  I don't know if they got that dash treatment right in the kit. The '66 is essentially the same car but with some updated sheet metal, the last of the A Body Valiant based Barracudas.

You are correct, the early kits came with a slant six and a Hemi... funny thing since the real car didn't come with a Hemi, the A Body wasn't designed to handle an engine that large.  The real car came with a 273 V8.  If you have a partial kit, the Fireball 500 kit has many of the original parts. The chassis is there, but with front and rear overhangs that were added on for the Fireball car's length. These can just be cut back.  The holes for the original screws can be seen, but were filled.  The kit has other parts including the complete hemi engine (funny since the actual Fireball 500 also had a 273 in it), the front bucket seats,  half the interior tub (it was cut right behind the seats), and some other bits and pieces you may find useful.     A Hemi Under Glass kit will give you the front and rear bumpers, grill, tail lights,  glass etc for your '66 Barracudas.     The HUG body was modified, it comes with a fixed hood, missing a bunch of trim and the rear wheel wells are hogged out.   That's all from memory so there may be more....

[Ron Hamilton]

I really like compact cars, as I owned a couple myself. In the case of models, I have several Valiants, Corvairs, Tempests, Novas, Falcons, and even a Buick Special, and an Olds F85 from the early 60's.

[dartman]

I would love a 1965 falcon wagon,1966 dart and a 1965 dart.I have owned all and have owned my 65 dart gt for 25 years now.

[Jon Haigwood]

 

 

There were three Barracuda kits from that era. There was a 1964.5 and a 1965.. essentially the same car except the earlier one had a "Valiant" nameplate on the rear panel. The '64 was the original pony car, beating Ford Mustang to market by 14 days! On the real car, '64 was the last year for the push button transmission and the heater controls were knobs instead of the '65 and up slides.  I don't know if they got that dash treatment right in the kit. The '66 is essentially the same car but with some updated sheet metal, the last of the A Body Valiant based Barracudas.

You are correct, the early kits came with a slant six and a Hemi... funny thing since the real car didn't come with a Hemi, the A Body wasn't designed to handle an engine that large.  The real car came with a 273 V8.  If you have a partial kit, the Fireball 500 kit has many of the original parts. The chassis is there, but with front and rear overhangs that were added on for the Fireball car's length. These can just be cut back.  The holes for the original screws can be seen, but were filled.  The kit has other parts including the complete hemi engine (funny since the actual Fireball 500 also had a 273 in it), the front bucket seats,  half the interior tub (it was cut right behind the seats), and some other bits and pieces you may find useful.     A Hemi Under Glass kit will give you the front and rear bumpers, grill, tail lights,  glass etc for your '66 Barracudas.     The HUG body was modified, it comes with a fixed hood, missing a bunch of trim and the rear wheel wells are hogged out.   That's all from memory so there may be more....

Thank you for the information Tom

I am going to duplicate the 66 1:1 that I now own. I have most everything I need. You could stuff a Hemi in one but only with major modifications. The 66 did not have the bulge (?) along the top of the front fenders and I think the tail lights may be different also. Not mention the Barracuda on the grill and the lack of the Valiant badgeing. I consider the 64 and 65 a Valiant with a Sport Roof and the 66 as the unofficial first Barracuda. 

Edited September 8, 2015 by Jon Haigwood

[unclescott58]

There were three Barracuda kits from that era. There was a 1964.5 and a 1965.. essentially the same car except the earlier one had a "Valiant" nameplate on the rear panel. The '64 was the original pony car, beating Ford Mustang to market by 14 days! On the real car, '64 was the last year for the push button transmission and the heater controls were knobs instead of the '65 and up slides.  I don't know if they got that dash treatment right in the kit. The '66 is essentially the same car but with some updated sheet metal, the last of the A Body Valiant based Barracudas.

You are correct, the early kits came with a slant six and a Hemi... funny thing since the real car didn't come with a Hemi, the A Body wasn't designed to handle an engine that large.  The real car came with a 273 V8.  If you have a partial kit, the Fireball 500 kit has many of the original parts. The chassis is there, but with front and rear overhangs that were added on for the Fireball car's length. These can just be cut back.  The holes for the original screws can be seen, but were filled.  The kit has other parts including the complete hemi engine (funny since the actual Fireball 500 also had a 273 in it), the front bucket seats,  half the interior tub (it was cut right behind the seats), and some other bits and pieces you may find useful.     A Hemi Under Glass kit will give you the front and rear bumpers, grill, tail lights,  glass etc for your '66 Barracudas.     The HUG body was modified, it comes with a fixed hood, missing a bunch of trim and the rear wheel wells are hogged out.   That's all from memory so there may be more....

The slant-six also came in the real Barracudas. So, your '64-'66 Barracuda kits are correct stock with that engine. I don't know about the real car, I've heard it had the 273, but the Fireball 500 kit comes with the Hemi. And one or two of the slant-six parts. But not the engine itself.

[Junkman]

Thanks Teutates I have a lot of these Compacts, many of them even in 'builder' flavour. I'm a bit short of early Comets, though.
Should any of these moulds still exist, the usual suspects would be well advised to dust them off.

1st generation Corvair and Falcon were last seen in the Jr. Trophy or Craftsman Series, if I'm not mistaken.

THIS IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH!

Edited September 8, 2015 by Junkman

[Tom Geiger]

The slant-six also came in the real Barracudas. So, your '64-'66 Barracuda kits are correct stock with that engine. I don't know about the real car, I've heard it had the 273, but the Fireball 500 kit comes with the Hemi. And one or two of the slant-six parts. But not the engine itself.

Scott - My driveway about 20 years ago!  I bought my Barracuda back in 1977 and had it until 5 years ago.  This was a slant six /three speed car.  The Fireball 500 car was found abandoned in New Jersey many years ago and restored. It was shown at local shows before sold and winding up in a museum in Kansas.  I got to crawl all over it back then, and it was a typical movie car... they modified only what you would see on the screen.  Chassis and driveline were absolutely stock 273 automatic, factory buckets, dash (with an awful custom top cover), console and rest of the interior.  All stock!

Edited September 9, 2015 by Tom Geiger

[ChrisBcritter]

I, too, would like to see some first-gen compacts; maybe an idea for Moebius? An early Corvair Monza might be up their alley after the '65 Comet comes out.

[Junkman]

How about a 1960 Comet?

I'd be happy enough if someone would whack some styrene into a 55 year old mould and let me pay for it with my hard earned.
But that's just me, I guess.

[RancheroSteve]

The '64 Comet has potential for a "re-boxing", but it would certainly need a few extras parts and decals to come close to making even a relatively accurate competition version. I suspect that's true for most of the cars we're talking about here.

A couple I've done:

 

[Maindrian Pace]

How about a 1960 Comet?

I'd be happy enough if someone would whack some styrene into a 55 year old mould and let me pay for it with my hard earned.
But that's just me, I guess.

I wonder if they still have the four door promo tooling?

[RancheroSteve]

I have this '60 Comet glue-bomb (EBay buy) that awaits restoration someday:

[Aaronw]

Well nice to see there is a little interest here anyway. I'd really only be interested in stock so 3 in 1 would be my choice but looking at some of the recent kits that kind of surprised people, '50 Olds, the Hudsons, '65 Satellite it seems like having the option to offer different racing versions is kind of the in thing at the moment. I know most of these are out there in one form or another whether promos, old kits, or resin but was just wondering if they had a chance of seeing new tooling, based on the same kind of criteria as some of the other recent and somewhat offbeat choices. I didn't see much in the direction of funnycars and drag racers mentioned which is where I actually thought these would be more likely to be found.

 

Thanks for satisfying my curiosity. It appears there is some disagreement on the interest these cars would generate as racers, but that seems par for the course, one persons easy money is anothers example of a sure flop.