Modelhaus going, going Gone !!!!!!

[Snake45]

I wonder if right now Don and Carol are regretting their decision to give so much notice without putting a limit of the size of orders. I wonder what the modelling community would do if they decided to just close up, return all the money, say 'Thanks, we are done' and go on a very long vacation  

They want to retire in May 2017, right? This is early July 2016. That's at least ten months. I suspected they carefully calculated when they'd have to cut off orders to make their "deadline." If orders had been coming in at a more leisurely pace, they might have kept taking orders up though October or November or even on into 2017. They've been doing this a long time, quite successfully, and I suspect that they know exactly what they're doing.

[Snake45]

Selling a product at your own suggested full blown retail price is a much different scenario than giving something away for free to someone under the assumption they were to build it are 2 VERY different things .

Its not like Modelhaus is giving anything away for free. They are getting THEIR price that THEY decided on well in advance. So I have my doubts they  will  give it any thoughts or even care as to what the paying customer has planned for said purchase.

In case anyone is wondering , NO I did not put in a final order or do I have a backorder with them on file with Modelhaus. Actually the last time I ordered from them at all was nearly 10 years ago. But that's not going to stop me from buying there former product when/ or if it pops up for sale if I need it at the time.

 

A few years ago I put my 1970 Challenger 340 up for sale. I got nearly 30k for the car,which was pretty good money at the time. A few years later a dealer had it at the big Cruze  auction in AZ. The car sold for over double what I got out if it . I had no I'll feelings or even gave a snot. I was happy with the sale price I received for it and the fact he made money on it was irrelevant to me .

Another great post!

[Ace-Garageguy]

Another great post!

And the point missed with irrelevant comparisons yet again!!  

[gtx6970]

And the point missed with irrelevant comparisons yet again!!  

I got your point. All to well.

But the fact that a retailer is selling there  product at there  own full blown retail  does not give them or anyone else ANY say as to what said customer has planed for said product ( that they paid for with there own money )  in any way shape or form. Makes no difference whether said retailer actually produces said item or simply bought it at wholesale is irrelevant

The fact YOU have a problem with anyone possibly making a profit off of said time is irrelevant .

 

And I have my doubts Modelhaus didn't at least suspect they would get a last minute rush on product when they were talking retirement amongest themselves around the dinner table .

I would go so far as to suggest they even planned for said rush , at least to some degree. The fact they are no longer accepting orders nearly a full year ahead of said retirement ,,,, IMO points towards that exact scenario.

 

 

 

[Ace-Garageguy]

I once did a groundbreaking project for a fella for $30k, and he sang the blues the whole time about the cost. Even added work under the original price, which his slipshod estimate had overlooked (and I'd accepted, as he was supposed to be an "expert" in the field) and I'd allowed, because I needed to get the damm job done, get paid, and get on with my life. He knew my previous work well, and knew I was the most qualified to produce first-rate results.

Soon as it was complete, he resold my work for in excess of $85,000, and it turned out he'd intended all along to do just that. His company also got the industry-wide credit for all of it.

How would you like to be in THAT situation?

Don't even try to pretend it wouldn't pizz you off...and leave you with a bad taste about the idea of someone making a windfall profit on someone else's work for very little effort.

Edited July 9, 2016 by Ace-Garageguy

[gtx6970]

I restore classic muscle cars for a living. When I provide an estimate I PLAN for add ons and/or hidden issues. Its part of the process.Its just  the nature of the beast.. Any one who doesn't is doomed for issues at a later date. 

 

In regards to being pizzed off if someone else claims fame to my work, Then yes I would be quite upset and would have no issues telling the world as such.

But in regards to my customer sold it and made money on it , I could care less. Its history and I've moved on to the next one

[Ace-Garageguy]

I restore classic muscle cars for a living. When I provide an estimate I PLAN for add ons and/or hidden issues. Its part of the process.Its just  the nature of the beast.. Any one who doesn't is doomed for issues at a later date. 

In regards to being pizzed off if someone else claims fame to my work, Then yes I would be quite upset and would have no issues telling the world as such.

But in regards to my customer sold it and made money on it , I could care less. Its history and I've moved on to the next one

This wasn't a car project. Engineering, and hands-on repair of a composite aviation airframe, including the design and fabrication of multiple fixtures and special tools that hadn't existed previously. The work had never been attempted before and even the factory that MADE the damm airplane said it was impossible. There was NO WAY to prepare an all-encompassing estimate in advance, because as I said, it was breaking new ground.

Not really the same as restoring a car that's been done 1000 times.

The work was intended to be sold on even before I got involved, but I agreed to what I thought was a fair price to tackle it based on the severity of the damage I was TOLD by the primary contractor was a complete inventory.

Had I KNOWN IN ADVANCE that the project would be billed out at over $85,000, I certainly would have held out for more money.

This is the issue: The primary contractor KNEW IN ADVANCE he'd make a killing on my work. I did not. I still feel unfairly taken advantage of.

But it's OK to screw people in business, right? Thing is, I WOULDN'T DO THAT TO SOMEONE.

I routinely offer to pay MORE if a piece of subcontract work meets or exceeds my expectations, simply because quality is so impossible to find.

 

Edited July 9, 2016 by Ace-Garageguy

[American 185 Heavy]

I personally think that they knew exactly what they were doing, and rather slick of them too. Introduce a few new kits when the website came back up several months ago, and then wham, pull the plug completely. For certain you could tell that Carol was getting tired and frustrated with the business as she is the owner, and that was evident in some of the sarcasm both on the phone and in emails. But it could have been executed a lot better than it was merely by offering less in the final months and gradually fading in to the distance. Instead they overload, and then pull the plug rapidly never to be heard from again. I have dealt with them on and off over the years, a lot of the items I got were fantastic, but in the last 6 months the quality had slipped somewhat. Especially with the chroming, as was evident in the bumpers and wheels I ordered for several of my models that I wanted to touch up and freshen up. But as someone on another site pointed out, the shine and adhesion of chrome plating is always better on styrene than on resin, and I completely agree. And of the final kits they offered some of their pricing was insane compared to sister kits they offered. Best example is the 1970 Colony Park., offered at $140.00 ?? When the same thing in a Country Squire is selling for $100.00 ?? Yes it is a Mercury and rare, but everything has a limit I think. They were pleasant and helpful enough, but never really the same after they lost their son. That I think influenced this decision more than anything. I just hope that some other resin workers pick up some of the molds for the kits, or if they own them sell them to another reputable castor that can continue on. I avoid buying things like this on Ebay as you can't ask questions easily, and some of the pricing is really off the wall. And from pictures posted, not the highest of quality either. But to each his own. Hopefully someone will come along and take over where they left off, and move this even further forward into the 21st century.

[Harry P.]

This wasn't a car project. Engineering, and hands-on repair of a composite aviation airframe, including the design and fabrication of multiple fixtures and special tools that hadn't existed previously. The work had never been attempted before and even the factory that MADE the damm airplane said it was impossible. There was NO WAY to prepare an all-encompassing estimate in advance, because as I said, it was breaking new ground.

Not really the same as restoring a car that's been done 1000 times.

The work was intended to be sold on even before I got involved, but I agreed to what I thought was a fair price to tackle it based on the severity of the damage I was TOLD by the primary contractor was a complete inventory.

Had I KNOWN IN ADVANCE that the project would be billed out at over $85,000, I certainly would have held out for more money.

This is the issue: The primary contractor KNEW IN ADVANCE he'd make a killing on my work. I did not. I still feel unfairly taken advantage of.

But it's OK to screw people in business, right? Thing is, I WOULDN'T DO THAT TO SOMEONE.

I routinely offer to pay MORE if a piece of subcontract work meets or exceeds my expectations, simply because quality is so impossible to find.

Bill, you are comparing apples and oranges.

In the specific case you described, the circumstances were far different than the "resell Modelhaus kits for a profit" idea.

You had a personal bad experience where you feel you were taken advantage of. A specific experience with a specific set of circumstances.

But a person who buys merchandise from Modelhaus, at Modelhaus's asking price, then owns that merchandise fair and square. Modelhaus was not taken advantage of or ripped off... the customer bought their merchandise at their price. So if the customer now wants to turn around and resell that Modelhaus merchandise for a profit, that's perfectly legit. It in no way "takes advantage" of Modelhaus. After all, they sold their merchandise at their asking price. A perfectly legit and above-board transaction.

So if the customer who bought that Modelhaus merchandise turns around and resells it for a profit, that's his right to do so. Modelhause is no longer a player in any subsequent transactions.

You are conflating your own personal bad experience with something entirely different.

[Snake45]

I once did a groundbreaking project for a fella for $30k, and he sang the blues the whole time about the cost. Even added work under the original price, which his slipshod estimate had overlooked (and I'd accepted, as he was supposed to be an "expert" in the field) and I'd allowed, because I needed to get the damm job done, get paid, and get on with my life. He knew my previous work well, and knew I was the most qualified to produce first-rate results.

Soon as it was complete, he resold my work for in excess of $85,000, and it turned out he'd intended all along to do just that. His company also got the industry-wide credit for all of it.

How would you like to be in THAT situation?

Don't even try to pretend it wouldn't pizz you off...and leave you with a bad taste about the idea of someone making a windfall profit on someone else's work for very little effort.

This situation isn't really analogous to the Modelhaus deal.

Yes, I'd probably be pizzed--and a good deal of it would be at myself for not negotiating a better deal for myself to start with.

But look at it like this: If your got paid your $35K and the guy sold the thing for $37K, would you have been happy? How about if he took a loss on it and sold it for $25K after paying you your $35K--or if the thing had burned to the ground the night before he was to sell it, but after paying you?

In other words, were you happy with the $35K before he sold it for a lot more? If so, why does whatever happens AFTER that affect your happiness?

[Ace-Garageguy]

Bill, you are comparing apples and oranges.

You are conflating your own personal bad experience with something entirely different.

I'll agree they are substantially different circumstances.

I STILL feel that loading Modelhaus up with a heavy order that's specifically intended to be sold for a significant profit in the future is not in the spirit of appreciating Modelhaus' considerate effort to allow modelers (as opposed to resellers) to get in some final orders before shutting the doors forever.

Nobody has to agree with my thoughts on this. Nobody.

Edited July 9, 2016 by Ace-Garageguy

[Ace-Garageguy]

In other words, were you happy with the $35K before he sold it for a lot more? If so, why does whatever happens AFTER that affect your happiness?

Simply because he knew in advance he'd gross at least $80,000 before I was ever brought in to the equation...if I could do it...but I was kept in the dark regarding what other factors were in play. I bent over backwards making the project happen and ended up barely breaking even on the thing. After MY expenses, I made about $400. Yes, $400. He sat in the office, made a few calls, and hired an outside engineer to write up the procedure I developed (paid the outsider about $1000). Almost zero effort for $50,000 profit on MY work.

All of which has nothing to do with this thread...other than the fact that my work was contracted for specifically with the full intention of making a windfall profit immediately on my completion of said work.

-------------------------------------------------------------

Anyway, I sincerely hope SOMEBODY steps up and resumes production of at least some of the Modelhaus catalog. 

Edited July 9, 2016 by Ace-Garageguy

[Harry P.]

Does anyone know what Don and Carol intend to do with their inventory, molds, etc? Is the business for sale? Or do they have kids that will inherit the business? Just wondering, because Modelhaus always had such a stellar reputation. It seems like someone ought to carry on the business somehow.

[Sport Suburban]

You guys remind me of what John Maxwell said when he was asked why he has not written a book about Business Ethics! He said there was nothing to write. Business is business and ethics is ethics one is not related to the other. Business is a financial agreement between two parties and ethics is how you treat people. You do business ethically or you do not. You bring morals into business or not. That is about who you are doing business with but not what you are doing together.

 

[Snake45]

I STILL feel that loading Modelhaus up with a heavy order that's specifically intended to be sold for a significant profit in the future is not in the spirit of appreciating Modelhaus' considerate effort to allow modelers (as opposed to resellers) to get in some final orders before shutting the doors forever.

I actually agree with you on this. It's not "in the spirit."

But, again, no one has yet presented any evidence that anyone has actually done or is doing this.

I suspect they got quite a few large orders--from guys like me who tried to order everything they think they'll ever need for the rest of their lives because they know this is the end. In case anyone is still unclear on this, let me categorically state for the record that my last Modelhaus orders were for parts that I intend to use personally.
Though I cannot absolutely guarantee you that I won't end up with the odd extra here or there that might be swapped off with other builders. I don't even have an eBay selling account and have no intention of selling anything.

[CapSat 6]

Dang! I just happened to find an AMT Craftsman '65 Valiant today at a vintage toy shop- missing the rear bumper, front valence and one taillight. And the rear bumpers are almost ALWAYS missing from these! Oh well...

[SfanGoch]

But, again, no one has yet presented any evidence that anyone has actually done or is doing this.

Wait until the latter part of the year and watch eBay. That's probably the time that the first big orders placed after last year's announcement will be received. When you start seeing Modelhaus kits parted out like someone was running a resin chop shop with auction only/no buy now option, you'll get your evidence.  

[Ace-Garageguy]

Perhaps it's begun...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/MODELHAUS-1992-BUICK-ROADMASTER-RESIN-RESIN-1-25-Model-Car-Mountain-/142049174371?hash=item2112ca6363:g:1mIAAOSwRQlXf~9w

[Sport Suburban]

He has had this one awhile too.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/MINI-EXOTICS-R-D-UNIQUE-1954-CORVETTE-CORVAIR-SHOW-CAR-1-25-Model-Car-Mountain-/381599944736?hash=item58d9211020:g:zQcAAOSwT5tWPhjl

[1930fordpickup]

i think that these guys are selling a collection or different collections from time to time along with newer kits. 

The first one the Buick wagon was a kit from 06 according the writing on the box. 

[Sport Suburban]

My 07 catalog from Modelhaus has that 92 Roadmaster listed at $40 plus another $4 if you want the hub caps. I think that kit is more complete than what my old book lists for contents. I don't know what the last price was.

My 70 Charger RT kit was $59 when I bought it. Last time I looked at that kit it was 75 I think. I know some kits are way more. The most expensive one I bought was the 58 Fairlane convertible with the top and cont kit. $128.

I will admit that if these start getting high prices on eBay I may sell some of them if I have not built it. I have sold some Mini Exotics kits and R&R kits because they became worth so much more and the subject was not a must have for me. I originally bought them because I had planned to build them but something else came along.

I did have a Mini Exotics 427 Cobra Daytona Super Coupe kit. It needed quite a bit of work but was not a bad buy, I think I had $60 or $70 in it with a Revell 427 Cobra chassis for it. When I learned of the MFH kit of the same subject I wanted that version but it was over $300. A little over a year ago with the exchange rate in my favor I was able to buy it directly from MFH for $245 shipped. I sold the Mini Exotics kit on eBay and got back $125. Most resin kits seem to be a good investment as most of them I have sold for more than I bought. Just don't ask about my R&R 66 Impala, MCW 65 Satellite, and Modelhaus 72 442 convertible. (I just finished building that convertible and bought it in 08 and Revell kit came out in 2010 I think.

[Snake45]

Dang! I just happened to find an AMT Craftsman '65 Valiant today at a vintage toy shop- missing the rear bumper, front valence and one taillight. And the rear bumpers are almost ALWAYS missing from these! Oh well...

Bandit Resin does a '65 Valiant kit. Dunno if they'd be willing to sell you individual parts--some resin places will, some won't. And I don't know a thing about their quality, delivery, etc, but it's worth a shot:

http://banditresins.com/1965_plymouth_valiant.html

If you have to buy the whole thing to get the parts you need, let me know. I'm pretty sure I could combine the leftovers with a common Hemi Under Glass to make something cool.

[carsntrucks4you]

Sad to see that one of the best resin caster had closed its business.  I had placed early enough my last order. 

Thanks to Don and Carol.

[CapSat 6]

Bandit Resin does a '65 Valiant kit. Dunno if they'd be willing to sell you individual parts--some resin places will, some won't. And I don't know a thing about their quality, delivery, etc, but it's worth a shot:

http://banditresins.com/1965_plymouth_valiant.html

If you have to buy the whole thing to get the parts you need, let me know. I'm pretty sure I could combine the leftovers with a common Hemi Under Glass to make something cool.

Thanks again, Snake! I do have a few things from Bandit Resins. Their quality is very good. It's always worth a try, so that's a great suggestion. I think I might have an extra '65 Barracuda rear bumper I can try as well. I was just lamenting the fact that I'm already dealing with life without the Modelhaus! ?

[Tom Geiger]

I personally think that they knew exactly what they were doing, and rather slick of them too. Introduce a few new kits when the website came back up several months ago, and then wham, pull the plug completely.

Here's what I do know.  This past spring Don called me to let me know ModelHaus would not be able to attend NNL East.  He said they were absolutely swamped with orders and there was no way they could  take care of the outstanding orders and build up a sufficient inventory to do the show.   He said they were completely taken by surprise of the number of orders they received.  He said they had many orders over $1000 and that floored him since they had never seen that before.  So no, there wasn't a slick get rich quick plan in place. 

 

And of the final kits they offered some of their pricing was insane compared to sister kits they offered. Best example is the 1970 Colony Park., offered at $140.00 ?? When the same thing in a Country Squire is selling for $100.00 ?? Yes it is a Mercury and rare, but everything has a limit I think. 

I don't know about this, but can only offer an opinion.  I can surmise that they had to amortize the development and mold cost over less units than the Country Squire due to the limited time it would be offered for sale. Or maybe they added up exactly what it cost to produce.   

But your statement "Everything has a limit"  is why I don't believe we will see Modelhaus continue.  Resin casting is a business where each piece needs to be individually created.  It's not one of those "create a prototype and send it off to a manufacturer" type business.  And when we are talking about a complete kit, add up all the parts and understand that each one of these needed to be hand molded,  quality controlled and trimmed.  The chrome pieces needed to be sanded and cleaned of any imperfections for chroming before they could be sent on to The Little Motor Car Company that does their chrome work.  There is a part rejection rate, and with Modelhaus quality that is higher than with some other casters. So what is the labor that goes into each kit?  

I believe that if someone bought Modelhaus, add in the cost of amortizing the purchase cost,  setting up an acceptable facility to work in,  and providing a reasonable wage for those involved,  the prices they currently charge would increase dramatically.  And that's what will kill it right there.  The average car modeler won't pay what it will cost.