Compliments on posted models

[Mike_G]

This supposed difference of tone between "criticism" and "critique" is a little off base. Critique has sort of supplanted criticism in some uses, but really the only difference between the two is that one is a fairly modern borrowing from French, and the other is an older borrowing from Latin. Critique just sounds fancier. They both mean the same thing. To my ear, criticism sounds no more and no less mean than critique.

In college, I studied philosophy as part of my dual majors in theater and political science (yes, classic liberal arts major), and the study of criticism in the classic Greek sense was necessary to understanding both.

That's why I like the word "appraise".

[Harry P.]

To appraise something is to determine its worth or value, as in determining the value of a 17th century chest of drawers. An appraisal is not a commentary on the object's quality of construction, but an estimate of its value.

When we comment on a model, we are not making an appraisal.

[mk11]

Expressing a negative opinion of an unknown real-car builder's particular choices on a forum where model cars are the topic is hardly the same as making cruel and derogatory comments about a model-car on the poster's own thread.

True, but unnecessary cruel and derogatory remarks are the common denominator and you brought up the Golden Rule.

I'd like to be directed to the specific post you quoted "knuckle draggers and mouthbreathers" from too, by the way. I missed it.

http://www.modelcarsmag.com/forums/topic/104825-why-go-to-all-the-trouble-of-a-nostalgia-look-and-leave-the-edelbrock-sticker-on-the-carb/

A picture was posted with a legitimate question in a thread that soon descended into a negative dogpile with some throwing major contempt upon someone's build because, according to their rule book , it was just wrong.  Maybe knuckledragger wasn't mentioned but may as well have been.

But you're right. Sometimes negative commentary does indeed reveal a lot about the commentator.

And one more point...putting Hemi valve covers on a Chevy IS simply trying to pass something that's relatively inexpensive and commonplace off as something it's not. Fake is fake. If YOU like fake, goody for you. I don't.

Goody for you too.  People are going to build what they build and most aren't looking for that pat on the back for scale or 1:1 fidelity anyway; they're building what works for them. 

I look up to you Bill, as I know you care about being a dependable source of accurate information and help on the board. All I'm basically saying here is that nasty negative remarks, by anyone, whether about 1:1 or scale efforts, are a slow poisonous drag on the board and collective membership herein. By all means make critiques and be constructive but make an even application of the Rule. 

 

mike

[talon63]

As has been stated by many here, I also welcome feedback on my efforts, positive or negative. I know many may not be interested in my subject for a project, but I'm always open to improving technique and overall build quality. I appreciate that I don't need to exist in a bubble, and have found this forum to be extremely useful in improving every aspect of my work, from prep to final display. 

Sure it's easy to let a comment, or lack thereof, get under the skin, but at the end of the day, I'm mostly building for my own relaxation and enjoyment. If someone likes a particular detail I create, or thinks something just doesn't work, let me know. If I pull off something neat, and you want to know how I did it, I'll be happy to share. I certainly wouldn't hesitate to do the same. It's how we, as a community, grow and improve together.

[Daddyfink]

[Mike_G]

To appraise something is to determine its worth or value, as in determining the value of a 17th century chest of drawers. An appraisal is not a commentary on the object's quality of construction, but an estimate of its value.

When we comment on a model, we are not making an appraisal.

ap·prais·al

əˈprāzəl/

noun

noun: appraisal; plural noun: appraisals

an act of assessing something or someone.

"treatment begins with a thorough appraisal of the patient's condition"

synonyms:

assessment, evaluation, estimation, judgment, rating, gauging, sizing up, summing-up, consideration "an objective appraisal of the book"

an expert estimate of the value of something.

"the final figure is just a little more than triple the appraisal"

synonyms:

valuation, estimate, estimation, quotation, pricing; survey "a free insurance appraisal"

[JollySipper]

As has been stated by many here, I also welcome feedback on my efforts, positive or negative. I know many may not be interested in my subject for a project, but I'm always open to improving technique and overall build quality. I appreciate that I don't need to exist in a bubble, and have found this forum to be extremely useful in improving every aspect of my work, from prep to final display. 

Sure it's easy to let a comment, or lack thereof, get under the skin, but at the end of the day, I'm mostly building for my own relaxation and enjoyment. If someone likes a particular detail I create, or thinks something just doesn't work, let me know. If I pull off something neat, and you want to know how I did it, I'll be happy to share. I certainly wouldn't hesitate to do the same. It's how we, as a community, grow and improve together.

I like this post, especially the last line............ 

[Mr Stock]

If I like the look of a model I'll make a comment, if I see something that's glaringly obvious or would improve the model I will offer constructive advice if that makes sense.

I am by no means a perfect builder, I try my best, but because of my own abilities sometimes I feel I'm out of place to make comments on another modellers hard work. I post my own builds on here for everyone to see and I really appreciate it if someone points out an error I have made, I can only learn by my own mistakes, and that's what makes us better modellers. 

 

[Eshaver]

I see this topic getting locked before too long..

4 pages kids , that a Model cars Magazine record !

[XJ6]

To appraise something is to determine its worth or value, as in determining the value of a 17th century chest of drawers. An appraisal is not a commentary on the object's quality of construction, but an estimate of its value.

When we comment on a model, we are not making an appraisal.

[Greg Myers]

Lots of ideas here. Let me offer up one of my old builds for you to critique. Give some examples of what you are all talking about.  Let 'er rip, no holds bared. Then we can all critique YOUR criticisms. 

This was a build that came about after seeing a fellow club members 1:1  '55 pretty much in the same shape.

"Light Bulb Above Head" could that no chrome trim look be modeled?

[Ace-Garageguy]

OK. I'll start.

Good looking, fast looking model. I particularly like that rear 3/4 shot. It emphasizes the aggressive stance nicely. I'm also liking the overall theme of the build, and the chrome-trim fastener holes in the body panels. Reminds me of the Two Lane Blacktop car...an iconic '55 Chevy.

A couple of small things that jump out at me (and I think could make a fine model better) is the lack of any plumbing on the brake master cylinder, and the front axle centerline seems to be a tad too far to the rear.

The latter could be due to camera lens distortion, and the former is only noticeable because the engine bay is nicely cleaned up like a drag / street car would be, with only the basic necessities of plumbing. A line or two on the master cylinder would make it seem more complete.  

Edited July 9, 2016 by Ace-Garageguy

[thatz4u]

I build to suit me, check out my latest in pickups under glass http://www.modelcarsmag.com/forums/topic/115037-1961-f-100-restomod/   , feel free to comment, a different view point usually helps....I'm Al Rich, and I approve this message..

Edited July 13, 2016 by thatz4u

[bismarck]

Lots of ideas here. Let me offer up one of my old builds for you to critique. Give some examples of what you are all talking about.  Let 'er rip, no holds bared. Then we can all critique YOUR criticisms. 

This was a build that came about after seeing a fellow club members 1:1  '55 pretty much in the same shape.

"Light Bulb Above Head" could that no chrome trim look be modeled?

I like it!!!  But then i'm a sucker for primered '55 chevy drag cars.. That's the way I would build it if given the chance. I give credit where its due, and if i don't think much of a build, i keep my thoughts to myself. Since I don't post any of my own builds, i don't think i have the right to negatively critique anyone else's work. Just my 2 cent's....

[dodgefever]

The only thing I would point out is that it appears you removed the character line from the front fender along with the trim.  It should still have a rib on the fender, like this:

[blunc]

hrmmm,

I have no nits to pick on the fit/finish, the whole aspect of the model indicates a "street racer" since it has what I interpret to be heater hoses going into the firewall and it seems to have "most" of the requirements for being driven on public roads.

I did notice that the areas that aren't primer seem to have the same paint color, which (to me) seems to indicate the builder was depicting a vehicle that was the same color all over but only the outside skin has been worked on for future paint. A well thought out aspect of this build IMHO.

The nits I have noticed are: (gonna channel a little Harry P. here),

No rear view mirrors visible anywhere, maybe it's laying on the front seat and I just can't see it.

Possibly...no alternator mounting bracket.

No panhard rod on the rear suspension, the only thing keeping the differential from lateral flexing is how well the rear tires are stuffed into the wheel wells. That's fine for straight lines but eventually a road that isn't straight will be encountered.

"Sag" induced on some of the spark plug wires, having had my hands on close to twenty thousand cars while in a "tune up shop" has shown me that just about the only plug wires that sag are melted or burned...which brings up another nit, "smart" hot rodders don't let their plug wires rest on the headers/exhaust manifold unless the like to replace plug wires.

All of the above may be attributed to lack of familiarity/knowledge regarding the subject matter.

I have noted things on my own early builds that show lack of knowledge but won't be fixing them because it show em the path I have traveled to become the builder I am now.

[Jantrix]

Guys, if anyone is interested, some months ago I started the Model Workshop on FaceBook, for the express purpose of providing a place for honest discussion and critique of our work. Everyone knows this joining up so anyone with thin skin can buzz right off. Join and contribute if you've a mind to.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/962746283798179/?ref=bookmarks

[Tom Geiger]

I'm enjoying this thread because I once owned a '56 Chevy that could've been the prototype for that model!   Note that a car from that era would not have come with a door mounted mirror, mine didn't have one either.  

[blunc]

I'm enjoying this thread because I once owned a '56 Chevy that could've been the prototype for that model!   Note that a car from that era would not have come with a door mounted mirror, mine didn't have one either.  

ahem... but it does appear to have a windshield frame mounted rear view mirror.   

Edited July 9, 2016 by blunc
correction

[blunc]

Guys, if anyone is interested, some months ago I started the Model Workshop on FaceBook, for the express purpose of providing a place for honest discussion and critique of our work. Everyone knows this joining up so anyone with thin skin can buzz right off. Join and contribute if you've a mind to.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/962746283798179/?ref=bookmarks

Rob, if I was on faceborg, I would be there...

[Harry P.]

Guys, if anyone is interested, some months ago I started the Model Workshop on FaceBook, for the express purpose of providing a place for honest discussion and critique of our work.

Gee... I thought that's what this place is all about.

[Jantrix]

Gee... I thought that's what this place is all about.

And you've seen how well that's worked.

[Harry P.]

And you've seen how well that's worked.

So all the thin-skinned people are here, and all the "I can take it" guys are on Facebook? I find that hard to believe.

Are you suggesting that nobody here should be allowed to post comments or critiques of other people's work?

How is it that you get this concept to magically work on Facebook, while according to you it doesn't work here?

[blunc]

(I think I am seeing some "knee jerking" happening here...)

 

 

WOOT! first post on page five.  

Edited July 9, 2016 by blunc
woot

[Jantrix]

We have seen people here over the years get upset at being critiqued. The same has happened on other forums. Remember the debacle years ago on SA forums? So no one is comfortable giving critique on forums. Most would rather say nothing as we have seen in dozens of threads on the subject. The same goes for many of the FB pages. What I did was create a page that was created specifically where there is no question. If you post in Model Workshop, your work may be critiqued even if you do not ask for it. It is allowed and encouraged. If you don't want to be critiqued don't post. I know that that is your idea for this forum, but it hasn't turned out that way.

So far we have had no issues with members getting offended or rude with their comments. These are the rules I set in place on day one. It's working just fine so far.

Here's the rules folks. We've all seen critiques go bad on the forums, so lets keep this polite and tactful. Keep it constructive. There will be kids here so lets keep the language PG13.

1. Rudeness will get you booted. This applies to critics and those being critiqued. If you aren't open to hearing things you don't agree with, DO NOT POST HERE. If you can't critique without saying something sucks, we don't need you here.
2. Arguments are likely going to happen. As long as they are polite, I'll let them continue. But lets not turn it into a dogpile. If Bob and Joe are having a disagreement, joining Team Joe or Team Bob and adding to the melee will not help things.
3. As I said in the description, this is also a place to kick around ideas for future builds. Got an idea for a build but not sure what kits would help get it done? This is the place to ask.
4. This not a place to "show off" your work. We have plenty of other FB groups for that. This is a place for you to show work and be critiqued or discussed. If you want your ego stroked, this isn't the place for you.
5. I can't be here every minute, so if something does get out of hand shoot me a private message and I'll get it immediately on my Messenger phone app, and I'll take care of it.
6. I love a model contest as much as the next guy, but please do not post any ads for your clubs shows or contests. There are plenty of other model related pages for that sort of stuff.

Edited July 10, 2016 by Jantrix