1927 T Phaeton / XR-6 Roadster

[stavanzer]

Recent speculation on another thread, caused me to pull out my two '27 T/ XR-6 kits. While most of the parts have come off the sprues, it is fairly clear that the XR kit, is a separate tool or insert. None on the Model T sprues have any XR parts. The XR requires a complete, separate chrome tree of it's own also. From my admittedly quick look in the box, if the XR exists (Big IF) it should be a complete batch of tooling by itself. I can see no links between the parts on the Model T portion of the Kit, and the XR-6.  But that is all I can tell from looking in the Box.

Maybe Round2 will find the tool and take a chance on it. Maybe the tooling is long gone. My First Guess is that it is gone, as none other than John Mueller has looked at most of the tools that AMT/Round2 still owns at various times in the last 20 years, and has not mentioned it. My second Guess is that is either hiding in plain sight, or has gotten bad enough that it can't be restored. Either way, this kit can still be found for sale fairly cheaply sometimes, and that may fill the market for XR-6 kits at this time.

 

[unclescott58]

One I suspect is lost is the '32 Ford sedan that first came with AMT's '40 Willys. That's the one I'd love to see come back, if it can.

 

[Luc Janssens]

 

Maybe Round2 will find the tool and take a chance on it. Maybe the tooling is long gone. My First Guess is that it is gone, as none other than John Mueller has looked at most of the tools that AMT/Round2 still owns at various times in the last 20 years, and has not mentioned it. My second Guess is that is either hiding in plain sight, or has gotten bad enough that it can't be restored. Either way, this kit can still be found for sale fairly cheaply sometimes, and that may fill the market for XR-6 kits at this time.

 

My bet is that the powers at Round-2 know exactly what they got, in what state it is and have an estimate, on how much it will take to bring it back into production and if it's worth the cost or not (ROI)

It's also in their best interest to keep that info confidential.

[tim boyd]

My bet is that the powers at Round-2 know exactly what they got, in what state it is and have an estimate, on how much it will take to bring it back into production and if it's worth the cost or not (ROI)

It's also in their best interest to keep that info confidential.

Luc is exactly right here.  Round 2 has invested considerable time and effort, including hiring the services of the most knowledgeable people, to do an extensive inventory of their tooling bank  .  

The success of that effort is the reason we have the original California Hauler kit back, for example, a tool long thought to have been scrapped but one that turned out to share the Peterbilt Cabover tool parts but with the Conventional Cab parts trees welded off.  This only became evident based on Round 2's efforts to fully understand their tooling bank.  

Round 2 has also been pretty good about disclosing what they have.  When they say the do not have something left in the tool inventory, I for one tend to give them the benefit of doubt.  

Having said all this, I suspect that they have a few surprises yet to come out of the AMT/MPC/ etc. tooling bank.  As Luc says, whether they see the light of day will depend on what is required to make it a once again a salable product.    You may see at least one such example some time in the next year.   TIM 

 

[tim boyd]

As a post-script to this discussion, some of you may not be aware of the XR-7/'27T Tub Double Kit.  It didn't sell very well when introduced in 1963, and was never reissued.  

I did buildup/kit review stories on both versions of this Double Kit for Model Cars magazine a few years back.  Most recent was a buildup-review on the XR-6, which appeared roughly three years ago.  

Prior to that, I did a buildup-kit review on the original "hot rod" version of the '27T portion of this kit for Model Cars magaine.  This first version contained a good number of parts that never made it to the first reissue of the '27T as a stand-alone Trophy Series kit in 1967.   

If you are not familiar with these kits, probably well worth your time to go through your MCM back issue stash and did out these articles.  

Best ....TIM 

PSS - here's an outtake from the original MCM article on the '27T version of the Double Kit....note the parts that never made it to the reissue including the entire front suspension, grille shell, quad headlamps, and front wheels for starters....

 

 

Edited October 15, 2016 by tim boyd

[stavanzer]

Thanks for the input Tim & Luc. You guys know far more about this stuff than I do. I should just rack down another kit, and buy one.

Does anybody know what issues those articles Tim mentions are in? I'd like to try to get the back issues or at least copies of the articles to read. They sound great.

 

Alan

[tim boyd]

 

Does anybody know what issues those articles Tim mentions are in?

Alan

Alan, try issue 174 (January 2013) for the Tub and issue 190 (November 2014) for the XR-7/////TIM 

[horsepower]

Luc is exactly right here.  Round 2 has invested considerable time and effort, including hiring the services of the most knowledgeable people, to do an extensive inventory of their tooling bank  .  

The success of that effort is the reason we have the original California Hauler kit back, for example, a tool long thought to have been scrapped but one that turned out to share the Peterbilt Cabover tool parts but with the Conventional Cab parts trees welded off.  This only became evident based on Round 2's efforts to fully understand their tooling bank.  

Round 2 has also been pretty good about disclosing what they have.  When they say the do not have something left in the tool inventory, I for one tend to give them the benefit of doubt.  

Having said all this, I suspect that they have a few surprises yet to come out of the AMT/MPC/ etc. tooling bank.  As Luc says, whether they see the light of day will depend on what is required to make it a once again a salable product.    You may see at least one such example some time in the next year.   TIM 

 

 Aaa! You're just being cruel with a tease like that. Now us curious types won't be able to get a real good night's sleep until you give us at least one or two more hints 'bout what's in store for us who grew up bulding AMT kits, well let's not say grew up. BUT we did get older.

[ChrisBcritter]

My bet is that the powers at Round-2 know exactly what they got, in what state it is and have an estimate, on how much it will take to bring it back into production and if it's worth the cost or not (ROI)

It's also in their best interest to keep that info confidential.

They have disclosed some of the lost tools here and there on their forum; you do have to dig through to find the mentions because there isn't any big list. As an example, they revealed back in July that the Chevy Vega/Pontiac Astre funny car body molds are gone for good:

http://www.collectormodel.com/round2-models/2906-kat-chat-lost-amt-funny-car-revealed/

Edited October 17, 2016 by ChrisBcritter

[Casey]

 

Edited April 7, 2018 by Casey

[Greg Myers]

[HotRodaSaurus]

Would this be a good project? Apparently the car is still in the same family ownership.

Photo credits to Google images via Hot Rod magazine

Edited April 8, 2018 by HotRodaSaurus
spelling

[Richard Bartrop]

Depends.  If it's something that interests you, then it's obviously a good project.

As far as building it goes, it looks like all the parts are readily available in one form or another.  The tricky part is how close you want to get.  The '27 T has a higher cowl with a built in gas tank.  I suppose you could try grafting the cowl from the Double T kit onto the '27 T touring body, but there are people in the group who have a far better idea on what actually needs to be done.

[Greg Myers]

Maybe one of these ? 

[regular guy]

 

I will just throw this in here.

So XR-6 is very rare and it will be a miracle if Round 2 comes out with it.

Here are the other two with same story.

King T and Wild Dream.That's it.

[Greg Myers]

Yep, how does that song go ? "They don't know what they got till it's gone."

[Richard Bartrop]

Considering someof the oddball stuff Round 2 has released, I think if the moulds still existed, they would be used.

If you wanted to recreate the King T, ICM's Model T Roadster looks like it could be a good starting point.

 

Edited April 8, 2018 by Richard Bartrop

[Dave Darby]

1 hour ago, regular guy said:

 

I will just throw this in here.

So XR-6 is very rare and it will be a miracle if Round 2 comes out with it.

Here are the other two with same story.

King T and Wild Dream.That's it.

The tools for those two still exist. They've just been heavily modified to make other things. If the inserts aren't scattered too far to the winds and the projected sales figures deemed it feasible,  that set is at least somewhat possible.

[Dave Darby]

3 hours ago, Richard Bartrop said:

Depends.  If it's something that interests you, then it's obviously a good project.

As far as building it goes, it looks like all the parts are readily available in one form or another.  The tricky part is how close you want to get.  The '27 T has a higher cowl with a built in gas tank.  I suppose you could try grafting the cowl from the Double T kit onto the '27 T touring body, but there are people in the group who have a far better idea on what actually needs to be done.

A pair of 25 T roadster bodies grafted together would get you in the neighborhood. Like this old survivor...

Edited April 8, 2018 by Dave Darby

[Dave Darby]

On 10/14/2016 at 7:53 PM, alexis said:

Recent speculation on another thread, caused me to pull out my two '27 T/ XR-6 kits. While most of the parts have come off the sprues, it is fairly clear that the XR kit, is a separate tool or insert. None on the Model T sprues have any XR parts. The XR requires a complete, separate chrome tree of it's own also. From my admittedly quick look in the box, if the XR exists (Big IF) it should be a complete batch of tooling by itself. I can see no links between the parts on the Model T portion of the Kit, and the XR-6.  But that is all I can tell from looking in the Box.

Maybe Round2 will find the tool and take a chance on it. Maybe the tooling is long gone. My First Guess is that it is gone, as none other than John Mueller has looked at most of the tools that AMT/Round2 still owns at various times in the last 20 years, and has not mentioned it. My second Guess is that is either hiding in plain sight, or has gotten bad enough that it can't be restored. Either way, this kit can still be found for sale fairly cheaply sometimes, and that may fill the market for XR-6 kits at this time.

 

It was part of the same tool. The real estate used for the XR6 was cleared out to make room for the conversion parts to make My Mother the Car. 

[regular guy]

About that two 3in1 Model T kit.

Looks like the full fendered roadster would make a nice custom car.

Like the King T.

 

[regular guy]

About that '32 Ford Sedan above.

That is out now or maybe it is a Tudor.

I would fall down if that radiator shell/headlight shell piece is in kit.

[Dave Darby]

5 hours ago, regular guy said:

About that '32 Ford Sedan above.

That is out now or maybe it is a Tudor.

I would fall down if that radiator shell/headlight shell piece is in kit.

That sedan kit is not out. The body insert was moved over to the Vicky/Phaeton tool in the mid 1970s for one run and hasn't been seen since. The only 32 Ford AMT currently has available is the Victoria,  which is a completely different body. Google is your friend, Bob. Please Research before you post misinformation. 

[Casey]

On 10/15/2016 at 7:30 AM, tim boyd said:

Prior to that, I did a buildup-kit review on the original "hot rod" version of the '27T portion of this kit for Model Cars magaine.  This first version contained a good number of parts that never made it to the first reissue of the '27T as a stand-alone Trophy Series kit in 1967.

I never thought the 9.00 -15 Firestone Deluxe Champion slicks on your tub would've been included in the XR-6/'27 Touring double kit, and even less likely they would've been intended for use only on the Touring, but they were. Here's a comparison shot of both AMT (at least I'm pretty sure the narrower slicks, are AMT sourced, too) Firestone Deluxe Champion 7.60 - 15 and 9.00 - 15 pie crust slicks:

 

Just noticed the wheels in the AMT Custom & Competition parts pack...is this where the XR-6 wheels ended up?:

Edited December 20, 2018 by Casey

[Mark]

On ‎4‎/‎8‎/‎2018 at 5:41 PM, Dave Darby said:

A pair of 25 T roadster bodies grafted together would get you in the neighborhood. Like this old survivor...

A little more than that...there are lots of little subtleties that enter the picture.  I've got a box full of AMT '25 bucket bodies, and have been looking at this.  The touring body is wider at the back than the roadster of course, but the angle of the back panel is different as well.  Also, the rear doors appear to be a couple of inches wider than the front ones.  There are scale dimensional drawings of the touring bodies out there; I've got one, and intend to get into this...