Dennis Lacy Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 (edited) Here's the most recent distraction from finishing existing projects! Back in '54 four brothers, the Williams Bros., wanting to be more competitive at the Bonneville land speed races removed the hopped-up flathead from their '28 Ford Roadster and replaced it with a brand new, over the counter 241 Dodge Red Ram hemi. The engine was heavily set-back and topped off with Hilborn fuel injection, hooked to a Ford 3-speed top loader which then hooked to a Halibrand quick-change axle. When Bonneville was over they walked away with a new B-Roadster class record that would stand for some time. What I love about this car is how straight-forward it is. There's not a lot of bells & whistles and the engineering is solid but not overly fancy. It was built for a purpose and did what it was supposed to do. No more, no less. What is also remarkable is that despite being half torn apart after the '54 racing season and never being put back together, the brothers were careful to keep every part and every nut & bolt with the car. When the Williams family finally let go of the car it was possible to reassemble it to exactly as-raced in '54. Hosted on Fotki Hosted on Fotki Hosted on Fotki Hosted on Fotki This is not going to be a replica but it will be heavily influenced by the Williams Bros. roadster. Not that there's anything wrong with a strict replica, I just want the freedom to do my own thing. The foundation is an older issue of AMT's '29 Roadster from the 80's, after the kit had been condensed into a roadster only offering. To get started I decided to get the Dodge Red Ram sorted out. The block / trans, heads and valve covers come from AMT's '29 Roadster. The (slightly shortened) oil pan and upper water manifold are from Revell's '32 5-Window hemi. The front cover / water pump are AMT modern-tool Ala Kart. The pulley / belt drive is from Revell's Ed Roth Beatnik Bandit. The intake manifold and oil filler tube are also from Revell's '32 5-Window. I sanded off the dual 4-barrel carburetor pads, capped it with a piece of .020" sheet and made new carburetor pads for the 3 2-barrels from .040" sheet. The magneto is from AMT's parts pack Chevy engine. The Stromberg carbs from Revell's '29 Roadster. Hosted on Fotki Hosted on Fotki In typical old AMT fashion, the engine block is slab sided so I added some core plug and casting rib detail to help it look like something. Hosted on Fotki Here's the tweaked intake. Hosted on Fotki After deciding how far back I wanted to set the engine (about halfway under cowl) I had to decide on a transmission cross member. The '29 kit comes with a custom center cross member to go with the hemi, both of which are left over from the old Ala Kart and Mod Rod double kit days. The cross member loosely represents and cut-down '32 piece which is what the full scale Ala Kart used but it's a little soft on detail. The modern re-tool Ala Kart kit, despite a lot of short comings, does have some nicely done parts, one of them being the center cross member, so I installed it in the frame. That also meant I needed to transplant the tail of the modern tool transmission onto the older trans so that it would mount in the cross member correctly. After the back end was located I was able to position and build the front motor mount brackets which were made from various pieces of Evergreen shapes. I stared at it all and struggled with design for a good bit before figuring out what to do. The Dodge front mount isn't the most user-friendly thing on Earth. Hosted on Fotki Hosted on Fotki Hosted on Fotki Hosted on Fotki With the body set on the frame and over the engine, this is how things look. Like the Williams Bros. roadster, the engine is set back far enough that the front corners of the valve covers just clear the hood sides. Hosted on Fotki Hosted on Fotki The front axle is the beautiful dropped I-beam from Revell's '29 Roadster and '30 Coupe. Hosted on Fotki Here's a few really rough mock ups with the hood and Revell '32 Ford grill in place. Wheels and tires are from Revell's '29 Roadster / '30 Coupe kits. Hosted on Fotki Hosted on Fotki Hosted on Fotki Lots more to do. Comments welcome! Edited September 7, 2017 by Dennis Lacy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kit Karson Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 Here's the most recent distraction from finishing existing projects! Back in '54 four brothers, the Williams Bros., wanting to be more competitive at the Bonneville land speed races removed the hopped-up flathead from their '28 Ford Roadster and replaced it with a brand new, over the counter 241 Dodge Red Ram hemi. The engine was heavily set-back and topped off with Hilborn fuel injection, hooked to a Ford 3-speed top loader which then hooked to a Halibrand quick-change axle. When Bonneville was over they walked away with a new B-Roadster class record that would stand for some time. What I love about this car is how straight-forward it is. There's not a lot of bells & whistles and the engineering is solid but not overly fancy. It was built for a purpose and did what it was supposed to do. No more, no less. What is also remarkable is that despite being half torn apart after the '54 racing season and never being put back together, the brothers were careful to keep every part and every nut & bolt with the car. When the Williams family finally let go of the car it was possible to reassemble it to exactly as-raced in '54. Hosted on Fotki Hosted on Fotki Hosted on Fotki Hosted on Fotki This is not going to be a replica but it will be heavily influenced by the Williams Bros. roadster. Not that there's anything wrong with a strict replica, I just want the freedom to do my own thing. The foundation is an older issue of AMT's '29 Roadster from the 80's, after the kit had been condensed into a roadster only offering. To get started I decided to get the Dodge Red Ram sorted out. The block / trans, heads and valve covers come from AMT's '29 Roadster. The (slightly shortened) oil pan and upper water manifold are from Revell's '32 5-Window hemi. The front cover / water pump are AMT modern-tool Ala Kart. The pulley / belt drive is from Revell's Ed Roth Beatnik Bandit. The intake manifold and oil filler tube are also from Revell's '32 5-Window. I sanded off the dual 4-barrel carburetor pads, capped it with a piece of .020" sheet and made new carburetor pads for the 3 2-barrels from .040" sheet. The magneto is from AMT's parts pack Chevy engine. The Stromberg carbs from Revell's '29 Roadster. Hosted on Fotki Hosted on Fotki In typical old AMT fashion, the engine block is slab sided so I added some core plug and casting rib detail to help it look like something. Hosted on Fotki Here's the tweaked intake. Hosted on Fotki After deciding how far back I wanted to set the engine (about halfway under cowl) I had to decide on a transmission cross member. The '29 kit comes with a custom center cross member to go with the hemi, both of which are left over from the old Ala Kart and Mod Rod double kit days. The cross member loosely represents and cut-down '32 piece which is what the full scale Ala Kart used but it's a little soft on detail. The modern re-tool Ala Kart kit, despite a lot of short comings, does have some nicely done parts, one of them being the center cross member, so I installed it in the frame. That also meant I needed to transplant the tail of the modern tool transmission onto the older trans so that it would mount in the cross member correctly. After the back end was located I was able to position and build the front motor mount brackets which were made from various pieces of Evergreen shapes. I stared at it all and struggled with design for a good bit before figuring out what to do. The Dodge front mount isn't the most user-friendly thing on Earth. Hosted on Fotki Hosted on Fotki Hosted on Fotki Hosted on Fotki With the body set on the frame and over the engine, this is how things look. Like the Williams Bros. roadster, the engine is set back far enough that the front corners of the valve covers just clear the hood sides. Hosted on Fotki Hosted on Fotki The front axle is the beautiful dropped I-beam from Revell's '29 Roadster and '30 Coupe. Hosted on Fotki Here's a few really rough mock ups with the hood and Revell '32 Ford grill in place. Wheels and tires are from Revell's '29 Roadster / '30 Coupe kits. Hosted on Fotki Hosted on Fotki Hosted on Fotki Lots more to do. Comments welcome! BLAH_BLAH_BLAH_BLAH, Son! This ol' AMT '29 Lakester is nuts on! Always enjoy watching you blend parts so seamlessly as if they were meant for each other... the best parts from existing kits. For me, half the fun is locating the right parts, then the challenge of assembling them with the correct fit and finish! Awesome, ADL!! -KK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis Lacy Posted July 25, 2017 Author Share Posted July 25, 2017 BLAH_BLAH_BLAH_BLAH, Son! This ol' AMT '29 Lakester is nuts on! Always enjoy watching you blend parts so seamlessly as if they were meant for each other... the best parts from existing kits. For me, half the fun is locating the right parts, then the challenge of assembling them with the correct fit and finish! Awesome, ADL!! -KK Haha, I thought you were that guy Duane from the old TRaK days for a minute there! Thanks for the nice words. Parts picking is a lot of the fun for me, too. That feeling when you hit on just the right combo... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocking Rodney Rat Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 Hold on a minute here, wait one rock picking minute. ADL, you HAVE to replicate that fuel injection setup. That's the koolest feature on the car. Stromberg, schmomberg...c'mon man!!! (you asked for comments)... -RRR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis Lacy Posted July 25, 2017 Author Share Posted July 25, 2017 (edited) Hold on a minute here, wait one rock picking minute. ADL, you HAVE to replicate that fuel injection setup. That's the koolest feature on the car. Stromberg, schmomberg...c'mon man!!! (you asked for comments)... -RRRYou had to do that, didn't you? Edited July 25, 2017 by Dennis Lacy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobthehobbyguy Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 Great start. Nice fab work. You have really nailed it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocking Rodney Rat Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 Here's the intake I built for my flathead rail to get you inspired. I think it has 54 pieces into it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kit Karson Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 THAT'S HOW WE DO IT! -KK You had to do that, didn't you?And, that's how we do it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kit Karson Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 Injected Hemi is the way, ADL! -KK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocking Rodney Rat Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 ADL, you gonna replicate that tonneau cover? -RRR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis Lacy Posted July 26, 2017 Author Share Posted July 26, 2017 (edited) UPDATE! Work continued this afternoon. It was time to set up the front split wishbones but I wasn't thrilled with the initial stance, too high! So before committing I shaved two "leaves" off of the spring to get the front end down a little. I then went ahead and mounted the Revell Model A split bones. I glued the molded brackets to the frame rails then carefully parted the bones from the brackets. After a little clean up I drilled the end of the bones, inserted some .042 pines then drilled the brackets to accept the pins. Hosted on Fotki I set up the front brakes using the Revell Model A plates that go with the axle but I didn't want to use the '57 Buick finned drums because that's too new but the wheels are designed (correctly) to have drums. Hardly any other kits have actual brake drums but one such kit is Revell's Ed Roth Tweedy Pie T so I grabbed all 4 of them and adapted 2 to the front. Hosted on Fotki Now, with the brakes installed the wheels are positioned out where they should be and the car doesn't look like someone with their arms cut off! Hosted on Fotki Out back I got the basic rear axles figured out. The Halibrand quick change center is from all of AMT's '25 T double kits and the axle housings are from Revell's '29 Pickup / '31 Sedan. I cut the D-shaped end flanges off of the 9" axle in the newer Revell Model A kits and grafted them on along with the matching brake plates. Like the front, I tweaked a pair of Tweedy Pie T brake drums to fit. I still need to install a spring, make a new torque tube and make radius rods. Hosted on Fotki With the front stance set and the frame just setting on the rear axle, here is how the car sits now. Much better! I'm going to have to do a mild step in the rear of the frame to get the stance like this. I think the stance is very close to the real car. I also tacked on some AMT '41 Ford hubcaps (which I'll be using) to get a better idea of how this thing is going to look. Hosted on Fotki Hosted on Fotki Hosted on Fotki Hosted on Fotki Still lots more to do. Comments welcome! Edited July 26, 2017 by Dennis Lacy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis Lacy Posted July 26, 2017 Author Share Posted July 26, 2017 ADL, you gonna replicate that tonneau cover? -RRR Definitely doing a tonneau! And, after being chastised by you I had another look at the Hilborn injection in the Slingster dragster. After comparing to pictures on google, the outer-most intake ports are just inside the outer valve cover bolts. I held up an injector and as it turns out, it's the same on the model parts! So, I have usable injectors. I'll just detail them out a bit. I'll also need to add a valley cover since that area is wide open now. Hosted on Fotki Hosted on Fotki Thanks for the push. Stupid Stromberg's! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DustyMojave Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 While the Williams Bros roadster DOES have front brakes installed, it would also be correct to have no front brakes installed. This would NOT be good for a car still used for street hotrodding or even for drag racing. But El Mirage dry lake is 7 miles long and Bonneville even longer, and for the class, front brakes were not required. But those brakes are excellent for 1/25.Just so you guys know I'm not just spouting off from the back of my shorts here...I live within sight of El Mirage and the 1st race car I ever sat in was my dad's close friend Tom Beatty's belly tank in 1958. I've worked on a number of lakes cars over the decades. There was an SCTA meet a week ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis Lacy Posted July 26, 2017 Author Share Posted July 26, 2017 While the Williams Bros roadster DOES have front brakes installed, it would also be correct to have no front brakes installed. This would NOT be good for a car still used for street hotrodding or even for drag racing. But El Mirage dry lake is 7 miles long and Bonneville even longer, and for the class, front brakes were not required. But those brakes are excellent for 1/25. Just so you guys know I'm not just spouting off from the back of my shorts here...I live within sight of El Mirage and the 1st race car I ever sat in was my dad's close friend Tom Beatty's belly tank in 1958. I've worked on a number of lakes cars over the decades. There was an SCTA meet a week ago. Your absolutely right. A race-only car like this would be just fine without front brakes at El Mirage or Bonneville as there's plenty of room to stop. Living in Southern California, I've been out to El Mirage myself. Drove the '27 T Roadster that I built out there to watch the SCTA races multiple times. Hosted on Fotki Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DustyMojave Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 Sweet 26/7 on deuce rails Dennis! 28/29 cut down grille shell. Iron head V8 flat head, steel rims. Bigs 'n littles. This is the sort of car that "Rat Rodders" have been trying to imitate for many years but have no clue how to achieve.Shame that none of the model car companies have ever done a 26/27 roadster body. Touring, firetruck, Tudor, Sedan Delivery. But NEVER a Roadster! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mod3l Lover Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 I'm loving every minute of it!! This is avery, very cool build! You gotta just love those old and gnarlycars that they used to race. Keep it coming please!?! David S. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrKerry Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 Great build so far Dennis, always like to see your builds!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afx Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 Another great project Dennis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larman Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 That is great work! you have the stance and overall look dead on! -Larry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocking Rodney Rat Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 Me in ADL's ole '27 roadster which is now living Down Under!!! -RRR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocking Rodney Rat Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 Definitely doing a tonneau! And, after being chastised by you I had another look at the Hilborn injection in the Slingster dragster. After comparing to pictures on google, the outer-most intake ports are just inside the outer valve cover bolts. I held up an injector and as it turns out, it's the same on the model parts! So, I have usable injectors. I'll just detail them out a bit. I'll also need to add a valley cover since that area is wide open now. Hosted on Fotki Hosted on Fotki Thanks for the push. Stupid Stromberg's! I think you should cut the flared intake tubes off and replace with non-flared, slightly longer tubes as in the 1:1. More of my $.02 and as usual worth both pennies.... -RRR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis Lacy Posted July 26, 2017 Author Share Posted July 26, 2017 I'm loving every minute of it!! This is avery, very cool build! You gotta just love those old and gnarlycars that they used to race. Keep it coming please!?! David S.Thanks, David! Guys back then had balls to go 150mph in something like this. Or faster! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis Lacy Posted July 26, 2017 Author Share Posted July 26, 2017 I think you should cut the flared intake tubes off and replace with non-flared, slightly longer tubes as in the 1:1. More of my $.02 and as usual worth both pennies.... -RRRAlready part of the plan.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocking Rodney Rat Posted July 27, 2017 Share Posted July 27, 2017 Already part of the plan.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
502 Posted July 27, 2017 Share Posted July 27, 2017 This is really looking good, I dig the 27 roadster as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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