1/25 vs 1/24 Porsche 904

[aurfalien]

Hello every one,

I had recently had many of my beloved kits stolen in addition to other things and so I'm on the hunt for some replacements.

One of them is the wonderful Porsche 904 and so I'm curious if any one has pictures comparing 1/25 vs 1/24 Porsche 904 kits?

I had a 1/24 but it seemed rather big as the real car was pretty small.

I'm thinking 1/25 would be more appropriate but don't completely trust scale labeling of older kits much.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Gramps46]

OK, as you know there are 2 Monogram kits.  The original is labeled as 1/24 and was based upon their slot car.  Years later Monogram released a 904 originally made by Aurora in 1/25 scale.  The original 1/24 model is a very simple curbside with no engine and hubcaps molded onto the wheels.  The 1/25 model is very detailed with opening bonnet and hood and a detailed engine.  The size difference is noticeable.  Shape wise you will just have to take you choice.

The model bodies shown left to right are 1/25 Aurora/Monogram, 1/24 ARII, 1/24 Monogram, and 1/24 K&B slot body with molded in glass.  Only the 1/25 has an engine.

 

 

 

Edited November 1, 2018 by Gramps46

[afx]

Not sure of the accuracy of this drawing

[Gramps46]

More measurements.  Hope they help

.

 

 

[afx]

The drawing dimensions match up very well with each other.

[Gramps46]

Brian and JC,

I have what appears to be a factory drawing but the file is too big, 1.23 MB,  to post and if I reduce it I am afraid of losing detail.

PM me if interested and I will email you a copy.

Gary

[Ace-Garageguy]

There is also a 1/24 Auto-kit/Wills Finecast white-metal 904 with a multi-piece body...like separate fenders:                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       (which I used while developing the first scale model of this)     

Edited November 1, 2018 by Ace-Garageguy

[89AKurt]

5 hours ago, Gramps46 said:

OK, as you know there are 2 Monogram kits.  The original is labeled as 1/24 and was based upon their slot car.  Years later Monogram released a 904 originally made by Aurora in 1/25 scale.  The original 1/24 model is a very simple curbside with no engine and hubcaps molded onto the wheels.  The 1/25 model is very detailed with opening bonnet and hood and a detailed engine.  The size difference is noticeable.  Shape wise you will just have to take you choice.

The model bodies shown left to right are 1/25 Aurora/Monogram, 1/24 ARII, 1/24 Monogram, and 1/24 K&B slot body with molded in glass.  Only the 1/25 has an engine.

 

 

 

Thanks for posting this!  I've been looking at getting the Monogram, saw some vintage slot car versions are molded in gold.

[aurfalien]

Hello and thank you for all the wonderful replies.

Lots of great info here.

Thanks again.

[Matt Bacon]

Plans from the defunct UK Model Car Magazine via Vintage Slot Racing News (also defunct, sadly), but available online at:

http://web.archive.org/web/20071211013214/http://vsrnonline.com/Mags/MC/MC_Plans.htm

best,

M.

[Gramps46]

Matt,  thanks for posting the link to VSRN.  I went looking for it yesterday and could not find it.  

[afx]

Great link Matt - thank you!  In the VSRN drawing the tail section is significantly longer - did Porsche produce a long-tail version?

[Ace-Garageguy]

Interesting. The proportions and lines in the drawings provided by afx, Gramps46 and Matt Bacon are significantly different. 

Small wonder kit manufacturers have such an apparently difficult time getting things right, when published "reference" material is inconsistent, at best.

The bodies of the actual "production" 904 cars were fiberglass, taken from the same molds...so there isn't the oft cited issue of hand-formed individual bodies muddying the waters, at least on the series produced cars.

The car from the Bacon-sourced article, with the little grilles in the rear quarters, is very early. I wonder if the drawing was made from a set of pre-production dimensions, because it doesn't look like any real 904 (or clone) I've ever seen.

I've been up-close-and-personal with a fair number of these cars, and reproductions made from molds pulled from real ones. 

The Gramps46 drawing represents the cars fairly accurately, as I've experienced them anyway.

 

Edited November 3, 2018 by Ace-Garageguy

[Matt Bacon]

Well, since the date on the MCM article is April 64, and the author is crediting Ferry Porsche, who ought to know, my guess would be that it's an accurate drawing of the early test car,  chassis number 904-003: "The most obvious aesthetic differences between this car and production 904s are the air grills that appear on the rear bodywork instead of scoops. Also, the door contours are squared off. "

best,

M.

[Ace-Garageguy]

1 hour ago, Matt Bacon said:

Well, since the date on the MCM article is April 64, and the author is crediting Ferry Porsche, who ought to know, my guess would be that it's an accurate drawing of the early test car,  chassis number 904-003: "The most obvious aesthetic differences between this car and production 904s are the air grills that appear on the rear bodywork instead of scoops. Also, the door contours are squared off. "

I would respectfully suggest that the context Ferry Porsche made that remark in might be something like "The most obvious aesthetic differences between this car and production 904s (to your basic man-in the street who's not really capable of analyzing and comparing/contrasting a styling drawing with a full-scale vehicle) are the air grills that appear on the rear bodywork instead of scoops. Also, the door contours are squared off".

 I've listed several of the other obvious differences below.

Fact 1: The tail in the "Porsche" drawing is much longer than the production cars.

Fact 2: The tail, in profile, on the "Porsche" drawing is very heavy behind the rear wheel arches, exhibiting a pronounced load-in-the-diaper look the production cars lack.

Fact 3: The nose of the "Porsche" drawing is considerably shorter in profile, and the upper line is considerably rounder, than in the production cars.

Fact 4: The shape of the headlight sugerscoops is also entirely different.

Fact 5: The nose of the "Porsche" drawing does not exhibit the signature "overbite" in profile that's common to the production cars.

Fact 6: The roofline of the production cars descends slightly towards the rear, where the roofline in the "Porsche" drawing is parallel with the ground line.

Edited November 3, 2018 by Ace-Garageguy

[Gramps46]

I have reduced the size of the what I believe is a factory drawing and lets see if it works.

[Ace-Garageguy]

Yessir...THAT is a 904. THANK YOU. I saved it.   

[aurfalien]

Hi,

After some amount of pondering and deliberation, I've decided to go with the simple curbside 1/24 Monogram kit.

I preferred its shape/lines best of all.

Thank you for posting such nice information about the car.  It's a gem.  My goal would be to one day own a Beck 904, what a car!

 

Edited November 6, 2018 by aurfalien

[89AKurt]

On 11/2/2018 at 6:08 PM, Ace-Garageguy said:

[...]  I've listed several of the other obvious differences below.

[...]

 

[...]

Fact 7: Why is the scoop behind the door different on this one?

[Ace-Garageguy]

5 hours ago, 89AKurt said:

Fact 7: Why is the scoop behind the door different on this one?

It's an add-on, enlarged scoop. The molded-in scoops in the other photos are as the cars originally appeared.

NOTE: While there were many changes to the cars as they were raced over the years (including many variations of widened fenders) the lines and proportions in profile never changed...other than spoilers at the tail.

[Gramps46]

It is my understanding the small scoop is the 1964 4 Cylinder 904 GTS or the 1964 factory 8 cylinder. The large scoop is the 1965 6 cylinder or the flatter large scoop the 8 cylinder. The 8 cylinder cars had an open flat fan on the rear deck.

[89AKurt]

2 hours ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

It's an add-on, enlarged scoop. The molded-in scoops in the other photos are as the cars originally appeared.

NOTE: While there were many changes to the cars as they were raced over the years (including many variations of widened fenders) the lines and proportions in profile never changed...other than spoilers at the tail.

Thank you for the clarification

On 11/5/2018 at 5:37 PM, aurfalien said:

Hi,

After some amount of pondering and deliberation, I've decided to go with the simple curbside 1/24 Monogram kit.

I preferred its shape/lines best of all.

Thank you for posting such nice information about the car.  It's a gem.  My goal would be to one day own a Beck 904, what a car!

 

I had to look up what the Beck 904 is about.  Looks like a 911 engine, that's what I'm wanting to do!
I just bought a Monogram 1/25 #2954 kit off eBay.  Then I got a message that the back window is missing, so I said knock $10 off.  *I* can make a new window, the collector value is shot but I don't care about that.  (p.s. got an Aerovette that was sealed, read about tires melting the plastic, opened and found one sat on the back window and melted a ring in it, so much for collectible)

[Bainford]

1 hour ago, 89AKurt said:

got an Aerovette that was sealed, read about tires melting the plastic, opened and found one sat on the back window and melted a ring in it, so much for collectible

Schrodinger's cat... the kit would still be just as collectable if you had not opened it.

[aurfalien]

7 hours ago, Gramps46 said:

It is my understanding the small scoop is the 1964 4 Cylinder 904 GTS or the 1964 factory 8 cylinder. The large scoop is the 1965 6 cylinder or the flatter large scoop the 8 cylinder. The 8 cylinder cars had an open flat fan on the rear deck.

Hi Gary,

What book is that cool 904/8 frömage from by chance?

[Gramps46]

22 minutes ago, aurfalien said:

Hi Gary,

What book is that cool 904/8 frömage from by chance?

Unfortunately I do not know the source.  I have been collecting pictures from books, magazines, and now the internet for many years.

BTW, you should have the fan you were looking for in Monday's post.