R.I.P Ferdinand Piëch April 17, 1937, Vienna, Austria - August 25, 2019

[porschercr]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-08-26/ferdinand-piech-who-brought-porsche-to-volkswagen-dies-at-82?fbclid=IwAR0CCDn461YPOp4Vg1xDn-YVCJPoAnCpUdx4H7j28pYu9jD1lC_kCkF3bmg

[89AKurt]

Icon in the car business, to say the least.  I've know the Bugatti Veyron was a "loser" financially, won't say more because it broaches a political theme.  Lee Iacocca passed a couple months ago, I built a tribute model, I'm already done with mine for this guy!

[Gramps46]

Truly as Kurt says an icon in the automotive world.

[afx]

Piech was the engineer behind the Porsche 917 and the Audi Quattro.

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/opinion/sports-cars/obituary-ferdinand-pi-ch-1937-2019

[Bugatti Fan]

Often wondered if the Bugatti Veyron ever made any profit, and now if the Chiron will depending the financial clout of VW behind it to afford such an indulgence. Look what happened to the Bugatti factory in Italy in 1993 that could not stand individually with the EB110 competing against Ferrari, Maserati and Lamborghini. OK we all like supercars, but VW recently withdrew their VW Phaeton saloon due to poor sales. This is pure speculation, but if they had used the Bugatti name and badge engineered the Phaeton aiming at their top of the range competitors like the Lexus, Infinity, BMW and top Mercedes luxury saloons they may well have made a killing in the company executive market instead of aiming at multi millionaires.

Edited October 8, 2019 by Bugatti Fan

[Richard Bartrop]

2 hours ago, Bugatti Fan said:

Often wondered if the Bugatti Veyron ever made any profit, and now if the Chiron will depending the financial clout of VW behind it to afford such an indulgence. Look what happened to the Bugatti factory in Italy in 1993 that could not stand individually with the EB110 competing against Ferrari, Maserati and Lamborghini. OK we all like supercars, but VW recently withdrew their VW Phaeton saloon due to poor sales. This is pure speculation, but if they had used the Bugatti name and badge engineered the Phaeton aiming at their top of the range competitors like the Lexus, Infinity, BMW and top Mercedes luxury saloons they may well have made a killing in the company executive market instead of aiming at multi millionaires.

In a sense the already did that.   The Bentleys shared the same mechanicals as the Pheaton, but in a body that didn't look so much like a plain vanilla VW.   A modern day Royale is a fun idea to speculate about,  but seeing how VW already has an ultra luxury brand with Bentley,  would another one make sense?

[Rob Hall]

32 minutes ago, Richard Bartrop said:

In a sense the already did that.   The Bentleys shared the same mechanicals as the Pheaton, but in a body that didn't look so much like a plain vanilla VW.   A modern day Royale is a fun idea to speculate about,  but seeing how VW already has an ultra luxury brand with Bentley,  would another one make sense?

Well, Bentley is VWAG's ultra luxury brand, while Bugatti is the ultra-ultra luxury brand.  They had a sedan concept a while back--the Galibier, but it sounds like the next Bugatti model will be a crossover, positioned above the Bentley Bentayga and Lamborghini Urus. 

https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/spy-shots/bugatti/suv-crossover/

[Bugatti Fan]

Rob and Richard.          Firstly I was not aware that the Bentley shared the same mechanicals as the VW Phaeton so that was interesting to know.

The other thing was that when I speculated about VW badge engineering the Phaeton to the Bugatti brand I was not talking about ultra luxury or ultra ultra luxury market. I was talking more about the market for the sort of car that the directors of many companies would buy into that would fall below the multi millionaire market, such as the Toyota Lexus, Nissan Infinity and top end BMW, and Mercedes. Basically the rich but not ultra rich! VW could have made a killing in this particular market using the Bugatti name. Between the VW cars we all know and love and the Bentley customer, there was a gap that they could have exploited with the Bugatti name. Maybe, because they have top of the range Audis they have not considered this.

I thought that Galibier saloon car concept was that of the Italian Bugatti outfit before their demise, but stand corrected if I am wrong.

Edited October 9, 2019 by Bugatti Fan

[Rob Hall]

15 minutes ago, Bugatti Fan said:

 

The other thing was that when I speculated about VW badge engineering the Phaeton to the Bugatti brand I was not talking about ultra luxury or ultra ultra luxury market. I was talking more about the market for the sort of car that the directors of many companies would buy into that would fall below the multi millionaire market, such as the Toyota Lexus, Nissan Infinity and top end BMW, and Mercedes. Basically the rich but not ultra rich! VW could have made a killing in this particular market using the Bugatti name.  

That's Audis niche, though.  Bugatti is much higher up the price ladder.    I think the Phaeton was a mistake for the VW brand, not sure what it's point was, other than spreading the investment cost w/ the Bentley Continental....since they already have the Audi A8 playing in the executive car niche.... the Phaeton and A8 were chasing after the same customers.  Speaking of filling niches, I've read that maybe 10-15 years ago VWAG considered bringing back the long defunct Horch brand to fill a gap between Audi and Bentley, sort of how Mercedes has Maybach. 

Edited October 9, 2019 by Rob Hall

[Bugatti Fan]

Rob, you are right about the Phaeton being a mistake. Did not have the same appeal as BMW, Mercedes or Audi brand names to the company director customer. Unfortunately, good as it was, it was just still seen as a VW.

[Rob Hall]

Just now, Bugatti Fan said:

Rob, you are right about the Phaeton being a mistake. Did not have the same appeal as BMW, Mercedes or Audi brand names to the company director customer. Unfortunately, good as it was, it was just still seen as a VW.

I liked the Phaeton interior...sat in one at an auto show once...