Death of the Hobby

[dmthamade]

20 minutes ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

Yup.                 

OK!! I guess I could see the younger builders getting into these. Don't think I would, and I suspect not many of the older builders either. That's ok though, still keeps the hobby going, just another branch of car kits. 3D printing idea sounds good, starting to see this in aircraft models. 

Don

[Ace-Garageguy]

38 minutes ago, dmthamade said:

OK!! I guess I could see the younger builders getting into these. Don't think I would, and I suspect not many of the older builders either...

I'm an old fossil, a sports-car guy as well as a hot-rodder, and I appreciate these little cars as today's version of what we old farts built when we were young.

Though I don't have much genuine interest in most of these cars, I have huge respect for and interest in some of the engines. I've bought these kits primarily for engine-swap material...like the Supra in a 240Z (there's a real one around here that goes like stink), the little Honda B16 or B18 to go in the middle of a very narrow dry-lakes '32 Ford, the Mitsu to swap into something else...

Edited September 25, 2019 by Ace-Garageguy

[Tom Geiger]

1 hour ago, dmthamade said:

I can totally relate to this!! Way waay back, when I was 16, couldn't wait to get my learners permit, then license. Just like all of my friends.

Ha!  I was standing outside DMV office waiting for them to open on my birthday!  Counter clerk even remarked, "You didn't waste any time.."

I had already passed the written exam in my high school drivers ed class, so I was given my permit that day.

I spent the rest of the day driving around with my grandfather teaching me how to drive. By dark, I was a driver!

[dmthamade]

55 minutes ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

I'm an old fossil, a sports-car guy as well as a hot-rodder, and I appreciate these little cars as today's version of what we old farts built when we were young.

Though I don't have much genuine interest in most of these cars, I have huge respect for and interest in some of the engines. I've bought these kits primarily for engine-swap material...like the Supra in a 240Z (there's a real one around here that goes like stink), the little Honda B16 or B18 to go in the middle of a very narrow dry-lakes '32 Ford, the Mitsu to swap into something else...

I get what you're saying...i still have no interest, but the younger crowd are more likely to be attracted as they could better relate to the drifters, hondas, etc., because they are modifying/driving/dreaming about them, just like us in our given era, and that's ok.

Don

[High octane]

2 hours ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

Yup.                 

Yes I remember all of those kits on the hobby shop shelves.

[Rodent]

This one too.

[Spex84]

I bet that Mustang didn't have the movie-accurate engine though

I actually have the Supra on my shelf. Got it because it was cheap, but one of these days I might even build it!

I also wonder what's going to happen to those enormous kit stashes. People are probably going to buy them up for pennies on the dollar at estate sales and re-sell them at full retail, if today's practices are any indication of what the future holds.

 

[Brudda]

James May had a piece on airfix. James May Toy Stories. You will see the typical look on young faces. Not interested. He was trying to get the kids into modeling.  He gave a brief history of airfix and one young girl said “is he mental?”  There was one boy who was interested in the hobby. Out of maybe 25.      I’m 63 and getting ready to retire. There is a young man at work that wants to restore a camaro. I said great! Then he said a 1986 z28. Well my thoughts were a 67-70. My idea of a restoration project is a 67-70, not a 86. So here the gap continues, what I think is cool and what he thought was cool are different. So what we think is cool, maybe it’s not so cool in younger eyes. Didn’t you think something was cool and your dad had other ideas.?  I thought the kids were a little crazy. So i bought a 1985 Honda crx si.  Restored the car. 91 hp and 38 mpg. It’s a great car. But I also have a 2005 corvette. Honestly I like driving my Honda. More than my corvette. It’s just more fun with less money. Are the kids crazy? I do not think so. Anyways I do not think the hobby is going to go completely away, it’s going to adapt to sales. This is a great debate !!!! P. S. Jay Leno drag race between him and Tim Allen. Tim had a 1967 GTO, and Jay had a new Nissan Altima. Jay blew off Tim in the GTO, my heart sank and then realized maybe I am getting old. 

[Richard Bartrop]

Just to put things in perspective, when this kit first hit the stands in 1963, this car was not even 30 years old.

A Model A would have been about as old as that Honda is now.  That '67 Camaro?  Here's what a 52 year old American performance car looked like back then.

Now personally, I think it's good to take an interest in the world that existed before we were born, but if you're looking at these and thinking, "Why should i be interested in this weird old stuff?", maybe you can see why half century old muscle cars might be a tough sell to some people.

[dmthamade]

5 hours ago, Richard Bartrop said:

 

 

Now personally, I think it's good to take an interest in the world that existed before we were born, but if you're looking at these and thinking, "Why should i be interested in this weird old stuff?", maybe you can see why half century old muscle cars might be a tough sell to some people.

Yup!!! No interest in these eras, though the Deusenberg in sinister black would be attractive, Indiana Jones attractive. I absolutely understand that old school muscle cars have no attraction. As I've tried to say, we tend to build what we know. Just started doing car models, looking at my stash of 8 kits, they are 60s-70s american performance cars, with two F1 cars.   I remember those civics, Bruce. Right about the time when the kids started to modify these cars. I had a 1985 Toyota MR2 bought new, short on horsepower but really fun to drive, nimble, great at cutting through traffic. Civics, Miatas, 240SX, Corolla GTS, short on power but fun to drive. We all have our favorite car era, I have no interest in the 20s-50s museum pieces, just like you point out kids have no interest in 50s-80s museum pieces. This is a great discussion, would like to hear more from the younger modellers out there how they see the hobby.

Don

[randyc]

I have a 12 y/o son who whill build a 1000 pc Lego set.  That is modeliing in it's own right.  Have you seen a Lego set instruction BOOK???  Those things are crazy nice.   Models?  He probably would build those IF the subject matter was there.   He LOVES modern supercars.    He check on me at my bench sometimes, but has no interest in the cars and the little stuff on those.  However, as someone said, make some Forza cars and he might?   Tie it in.  Hotwheels is doing that and I bet it's working.  Heck I have Forza and GT game cars in my hotwheels stuff.  And gave my sons their favorites as well.   We all have a Forza car.  We all share that interest.   but right now, the boy is into real soccer and soccer videos to improve his soccer.   Older son is into music and is at college studying classical piano.  he has no time for models.  Or much of anything else.  He tried to build, but it just didn't hold his interest like driving a car on a video game.  

Thos of us that older remember slot cars and the driving thrill.  Well, let me tell ya, nothing like the thrill of sitting in front of a big screen with Forza on it and DRIVING a car you might build as a model.  If you haven't ever played, they put the actual details of the real car in there - not some generic representation.  If you haven't, you should; and if you're young and laughing at me, go ahead, I do love some Forza Motorsports.  I love driving a Greenwood Vette, or Cobra Daytona.

I was brought up spending summers and vacations at my grandparents' house.  I had an uncle who was typical early 70s car guy.  He was always building a real or model car and I was always tagging along or breaking his models.   He introduced me to Roth shirts and 327s and Keystone Klassics and clackers (remember those?  Still have a set somewhere).   I'm not sure how to get my kids to beinterested in a 69 Camaro if they have no interest in it.  A Ferrari or Bugatti Chiron?  Maybe.   The S&H torino was a masterstroke for revell.    the reset of S&H meant new builders were exposed to the older car.  And the older guys watched the original.  And my mom had a 72 Torino vbase.  So I was pretty stoked.  

F&F?  Big sellers - those sell - look at how many mfrs are making some sort of F&F replicas.   It is a hobby for many.   If we're on here, it is likely a way of life.  Or newbies trying it out to see.  Hopefully we'll keep a bunch of those.   And there are probably a lot of older modelers who don't use tech like this that we'll never know about.  How many on here don't use cell phones or Facebook?  I haven't fouond a FB page I like as much as this or a paper copy of SAE.  We may not be seeing some of those folks who are building that we don't know are out there in the hobby.

I have a collector friend that LOVES diecast models.   Recently started paying me to build plastics for him for cars he can't get in diecast.   He's part of the hobby, even though he does NOT build or participate in anything but buying on ebay.  But he's part of the hobby.  

It will survive.

 

[Justin Porter]

19 hours ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

Yup.                 

Unfortunately, all four of those kits had massive design and accuracy issues. Worse, the "kids" who did build them also were buying Fujimi, Aoshima, and Tamiya kits of similar subject matter and very quickly decided anything with the domestic box labels was best left avoided. 

Kind of a shame since the Revell WRX and Integra kits were quite serviceable. 

[Ace-Garageguy]

1 hour ago, randyc said:

..We may not be seeing some of those folks who are building that we don't know are out there in the hobby...

We're certainly not seeing here most of the builders who support the expensive high-end segment of the market, multi-hundred-dollar multi-media kits. And we're not seeing most of the large-scale builders, some of whom are approaching or rivaling Gerald Wingrove quality.

[Pete J.]

2 hours ago, randyc said:

I have a 12 y/o son who will build a 1000 pc Lego set.  That is modeling in it's own right.  Have you seen a Lego set instruction BOOK???  Those things are crazy nice. 

No kidding!  Lego is definitely model building, just without glue.  Want cars or airplanes?  They have them and very complex ones.  Here is a top of the heap Lego Bugatti Chiron.  https://www.lego.com/en-us/product/bugatti-chiron-42083  Yes, it is over $300 for the kit, but that is about half of what you would spend for a Model Factory Hiro kit that just sits there.  When you look at this, be sure to scroll down to the engine and suspension system.  This thing is stunning!  I had a weird though.  What if you put one of these on the table at IPMS nationals?  The ultimate snap kit.  Have a little fun. 

Edited September 26, 2019 by Pete J.

[Ace-Garageguy]

The age perspective is an interesting aside.

As a very young "modeler" (a gloo-smearing paint-slatherer is more appropriate), I was interested in things of the time. My first car model was Revell's '57 Ford wagon. I "built" several of Revell's 1/32 scale American cars too. And planes and tanks and suchlike I saw at airshows or in war movies. It took a while for me to understand the hot-rod thing, or why anybody would be so passionate about old-timey cars. Gifts of an AMT '40 Ford and the Ala Kart started it, and once I got it, I was hooked...but then I wound up at a show of genuine "classics", and was blown away by things like hidden headlights and front-wheel-drive being done back in the 1930s, and the sheer mechanical beauty of polished engine castings, or engine-turned dash panels. I hadn't been driving long when the muscle-car era dawned, and that became my primary focus; that was also around the time of my introduction to drag racing, the golden age of gassers, etc. Then in 1970, after getting to drive a 356 Porsche and a Corvette on actual racing tires, my interest veered sharply towards sports-cars and road-racing, and stayed there for several decades. From about '77 or so, I started getting into the alt-fuel thing, initially doing propane conversions and lead-acid electrics, and I've kept abreast of that part of the industry. It wasn't until about 2005 or so that my interest began to swing back to old-school hot rods, and a deeper interest in and appreciation for "classics" (now including brass-era cars that I used to think were a huge yawn) than I'd ever had before. My kit collection is representative of all of these phases of my involvement with automobiles, and now that my small-scale modeling skills are just beginning to match my ambitions, I'm searching out things that aren't available in styrene, kits I couldn't possibly have done anything decent with earlier. Today, my interest in real cars is about evenly split between "traditional" hot-rods and sports cars, even a few new ones.

The point isn't me-me-me though. It's just an essay about how we tend to grow and change with time. I'm sure everyone here has similar...but different...histories.

One thing is for certain: there have always been people who built models of things, and there most likely always will be...no matter which way the rest of the herd goes.

Edited September 26, 2019 by Ace-Garageguy

[dmthamade]

1 hour ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

We're certainly not seeing here most of the builders who support the expensive high-end segment of the market, multi-hundred-dollar multi-media kits. And we're not seeing most of the large-scale builders, some of whom are approaching or rivaling Gerald Wingrove quality.

Sooo what are you saying? We're the Great Unwashed?? Have to say, 1/24 or 1/25 is frustrating me!! Parts are too small!! I'm getting old, I acknowledge the eyes and fingers don't work like they used to. Found the 1/16 funny car I did an easier build. The Comet i'm trying to Bare-Metal the trim on is getting close to being a crash test subject. Going to look at the bigger scale stuff before I go nuts.

Don

[Justin Porter]

1 minute ago, dmthamade said:

Sooo what are you saying? We're the Great Unwashed?? Have to say, 1/24 or 1/25 is frustrating me!! Parts are too small!! I'm getting old, I acknowledge the eyes and fingers don't work like they used to. Found the 1/16 funny car I did an easier build. The Comet i'm trying to Bare-Metal the trim on is getting close to being a crash test subject. Going to look at the bigger scale stuff before I go nuts.

Don

It's already happened in the aircraft world. Between Tamiya, Trumpeter, Hasegawa, Wingnut Wings, and HK Models there's been a big push towards 1/32nd scale as a mainstream builder's scale rather than as a high-end only scale primarily because of casual builders who want bigger parts.

[dmthamade]

34 minutes ago, Justin Porter said:

It's already happened in the aircraft world. Between Tamiya, Trumpeter, Hasegawa, Wingnut Wings, and HK Models there's been a big push towards 1/32nd scale as a mainstream builder's scale rather than as a high-end only scale primarily because of casual builders who want bigger parts.

Yup!! 1/32 aircraft is where i've been for a 2+ decades. Had to move up from 1/48. So much available right now in 1/32 in kits and aftermarket. Now there's a push of 1/24 scale aircraft and 1/18.

Don

[SfanGoch]

Jeez, the thread title itself  is an example of overstatement. (Sorry, Tom)

"The Hobby", upon being informed of the news, issued the following statement:

"The report of my death was an exaggeration."

It's not moribund, on its last legs or holding up three fingers. If it were about to get its ticket punched, there wouldn't be the explosion of new companies which are producing new kits at a nearly unprecedented pace.

[Richard Bartrop]

I've been a big fan of the 1/32 scales planes as well.  Mostly between the wars fighters and racers.   Even at 1/32 they don't take up inordinate amounts of space, the colour schemes are more eye catching,  and I'm interested in how aircraft evolved into the more familiar shapes of WW2.

On that subject, I remember my first experience with the IPMS in the early '80s.  The sentiment was very much that if it didn't have wings or treads, it wasn't "real" modeling,  and more than a few members weren't shy about expressing their opinions about what they thought of car models stinking up their very serious modeling club.  Needless to say, I didn't stay long.

Now, the Rocky Mountain Model Club has been heavily skewed towards aircraft models, but they've been fine with modelers of all sorts.  At the last display and build session we did for Family Day,  there were plenty of people doing Gundam and and Star Wars models. One member has been collecting and building these robot teddy bears that are apparently a spinoff of the Gundams.  What's funny is how more and more members are building these.    The club has made a conscious effort to be accepting and inclusive, and it works.

Now I the words "accepting" and "inclusive" may trigger some people who worry that modeling won't be taken as seriously,  the club still boasts some of the best military modelers in the country, if not on the continent. 

The hobby isn't dying, it's evolving, and it has no problem with evolving without you.

[Tom Geiger]

11 minutes ago, SfanGoch said:

Jeez, the thread title itself  is an example of overstatement. (Sorry, Tom)

Hey, as I said in the opening post,  that was the title of the thread on the stamp collecting board!   It does get people's attention and has resulted in an interesting and thoughtful thread!   And nobody is wrong here.  Times change, things evolve.

A few weeks ago I sold my 1995 Celica Convertible. It had been sitting in the garage for the past eight years. Toyota quality, it started right up and ran on that old gas!  I sold it to a guy about 30 who was as passionate about Celicas  as some of us are about '57 Chevys or 1960s muscle cars.  He drove up in a 1985 era Celica and was over the moon excited to acquire the '95 Convertible.  Different set of experiences, different expectations.

A few years ago my cousin put me behind the wheel of his new Tesla. The moment I floored it, I thought "this changes everything".  An electric car faster off the line than any muscle car.  Frickin amazing! And it will be interesting to watch how things change in the next decade.

A lot of the old guard in our hobby are calling it quits.  NNL Nationals and GSL are ending, the original aftermarket guys are retiring. New ones are diving in with 3D printers and new model companies are emerging from places we never imagined.   As other shows are ending, NNL East is here to stay and hopes to evolve with the times.  Notice our involvement with younger guys on our management board and embracing newer vehicles and trends that younger people are interested in.  Come on out to our  Diversified Scalerz show on Saturday.   Theme is Low Riders... but all the traditional categories are there to include everyone!   

Rock on!

[dmthamade]

5 hours ago, Richard Bartrop said:

I've been a big fan of the 1/32 scales planes as well.  Mostly between the wars fighters and racers.   Even at 1/32 they don't take up inordinate amounts of space, the colour schemes are more eye catching,  and I'm interested in how aircraft evolved into the more familiar shapes of WW2.

On that subject, I remember my first experience with the IPMS in the early '80s.  The sentiment was very much that if it didn't have wings or treads, it wasn't "real" modeling,  and more than a few members weren't shy about expressing their opinions about what they thought of car models stinking up their very serious modeling club.  Needless to say, I didn't stay long.

Now, the Rocky Mountain Model Club has been heavily skewed towards aircraft models, but they've been fine with modelers of all sorts.  At the last display and build session we did for Family Day,  there were plenty of people doing Gundam and and Star Wars models. One member has been collecting and building these robot teddy bears that are apparently a spinoff of the Gundams.  What's funny is how more and more members are building these.    The club has made a conscious effort to be accepting and inclusive, and it works.

Now I the words "accepting" and "inclusive" may trigger some people who worry that modeling won't be taken as seriously,  the club still boasts some of the best military modelers in the country, if not on the continent. 

The hobby isn't dying, it's evolving, and it has no problem with evolving without you.

Not a builder of that era, but I've always liked the hot rod racing planes, especially the Schnieder Cup aircraft. Pre war, surplused warbirds after the war and the new hotrod planes, ultimate prop aircraft!! The colorful prewar US Navy and Army aircraft were nice, too.

I hear you about the attitudes of some builders and their attitudes towards other things, that's why I stay away from clubs and contests. Once in a while i'll hear them yapping on about how _____(fill in the blank) aren't real models. Doesn't matter to me, all model building is fine...except for target builders....something "off" with them....I kid.

Don

[CabDriver]

23 hours ago, Spex84 said:

I bet that Mustang didn't have the movie-accurate engine though

 

The Skyline engine?  I think it actually does!

[High octane]

22 hours ago, Brudda said:

James May had a piece on airfix. James May Toy Stories. You will see the typical look on young faces. Not interested. He was trying to get the kids into modeling.  He gave a brief history of airfix and one young girl said “is he mental?”  There was one boy who was interested in the hobby. Out of maybe 25.      I’m 63 and getting ready to retire. There is a young man at work that wants to restore a camaro. I said great! Then he said a 1986 z28. Well my thoughts were a 67-70. My idea of a restoration project is a 67-70, not a 86. So here the gap continues, what I think is cool and what he thought was cool are different. So what we think is cool, maybe it’s not so cool in younger eyes. Didn’t you think something was cool and your dad had other ideas.?  I thought the kids were a little crazy. So i bought a 1985 Honda crx si.  Restored the car. 91 hp and 38 mpg. It’s a great car. But I also have a 2005 corvette. Honestly I like driving my Honda. More than my corvette. It’s just more fun with less money. Are the kids crazy? I do not think so. Anyways I do not think the hobby is going to go completely away, it’s going to adapt to sales. This is a great debate !!!! P. S. Jay Leno drag race between him and Tim Allen. Tim had a 1967 GTO, and Jay had a new Nissan Altima. Jay blew off Tim in the GTO, my heart sank and then realized maybe I am getting old. 

The '67 GTO had the 60's coolness that you won't find in today's cars. There's still  LOT of baby boomers driving today and when you drive by in your 60's muscle car, just watch the heads spin.

[Brudda]

Does this count? I have one of these also