'69 Pontiac Firebird

[Plowboy]

After seeing bogger44's '69 Firebird, I knew this was the time to give this thing a go. As most everyone knows, out of the box, the body from this kit leaves a lot to be desired. I have actually planned this for some time. But, every time I would look at it and see what needed to be done, I'd toss it back in the box. With new inspiration and an old Revell '69 Camaro build in hand, I figured I didn't have anything to lose. If I messed it up, no loss. No real plan right now. I figure it'll come to me as I get the body closer to primer. The photos are pretty self explanatory. But, if you have any, just ask. 

 I think it's definitely a vast improvement over the original. 

[thomascoffey1959@gmail.com]

     I had no idea the roofline was so dramatically different. 

[Plowboy]

4 hours ago, thomascoffey1959@gmail.com said:

     I had no idea the roofline was so dramatically different. 

There's a big difference kit wise. The Firebird roof is all kinds of wonky looking. I found out that the Camaro roof is around 3mms longer than the Firebird roof as I had to take that much out of the hood to get it to fit. I always thought it looked kinda short. Plus, the top of the doors sloped downward too much towards the rear which made the kick up at the quarters too steep and made the side opening look weird.

[Karl Sheffer]

That is some mighty fine grafting there!

[bisc63]

Looks like the graft was pretty close, width-wise. Any issues there? Loving the results you're getting!

[slusher]

Another great project, Roger"..

[espo]

Great looking body work. Doesn't look like you had to use much filler at all. 

[Plowboy]

13 hours ago, Karl Sheffer said:

That is some mighty fine grafting there!

Thanx Karl! 

 

10 hours ago, bisc63 said:

Looks like the graft was pretty close, width-wise. Any issues there? Loving the results you're getting!

Thanx! Yeah, there was quite a bit of difference width wise. The Camaro quarters and fenders were quite a bit wider. The outside of the Firebird body was inside the Camaro's. I had to spread it as much as possible and glue it with crazy glue. That's a first for me. Even with spreading the body, they still didn't line up well. That's why there's putty in those areas. What was odd was the hood width on the Camaro was a little smaller.

 

8 hours ago, slusher said:

Another great project, Roger"..

Thanx Carl! This was just something to give me a break on final assembly on my other two projects.

 

1 hour ago, espo said:

Great looking body work. Doesn't look like you had to use much filler at all. 

Thanx David! It didn't take as much as I would've thought. The passenger side is actually better. I had to shim the driver's side .020. It's made me think that the top half may need to be sectioned to be accurate. I used a piece of C channel as a template on both bodies and placed in the same spot on both (just above the crease). You can see on the front fender where my mark is. Luckily, I cut well above the mark with my Dremel. Even more lucky, was that I cut it fairly straight. 

Edited March 17, 2021 by Plowboy

[Snake45]

15 hours ago, Plowboy said:

There's a big difference kit wise. The Firebird roof is all kinds of wonky looking. I found out that the Camaro roof is around 3mms longer than the Firebird roof as I had to take that much out of the hood to get it to fit. I always thought it looked kinda short. Plus, the top of the doors sloped downward too much towards the rear which made the kick up at the quarters too steep and made the side opening look weird.

The real problem (in this area) is that the front part of the rear fender "hips" aren't correctly contoured under the rear side windows. The MPC Camaro shared this problem. I tried to fix it by filing/sanding on the MPC Camaro in the foreground of this pic; the Revell Camaro behind it shows what it SHOULD look like. Your roof swap took care of this problem quite handily. 

[Plowboy]

First shot of primer. I typically don't like to shoot primer before the body is ready. But, I had to in this case. The two different colors was messing with my sight. It's a good thing I did too. The front fenders have a wonky look to them that's going to require more putty. Also, I think I'm going to shave off the tops of them and the quarters. To me, it looks a little thick in that area. I think it does have some promise though.

I still haven't figured out why I had to shorten the hood 3mms. The roof from the Camaro is actually about a mm shorter. The cowl is almost the same length front to rear. The panel lines all matched up. Strange. 

[Snake45]

1 hour ago, Plowboy said:

Also, I think I'm going to shave off the tops of them and the quarters. To me, it looks a little thick in that area. I think it does have some promise though.

The reason it looks that way is that MPC didn't raise the body character line on the Firebird and Camaro models from the '68s, the way Chevy and Pontiac did on the real ones for 1969. Look at the remains of your Revell Camaro body and you'll see what I mean. 

[Plowboy]

3 hours ago, Snake45 said:

The reason it looks that way is that MPC didn't raise the body character line on the Firebird and Camaro models from the '68s, the way Chevy and Pontiac did on the real ones for 1969. Look at the remains of your Revell Camaro body and you'll see what I mean. 

It's not just the character line. It's thicker from the top of the wheel opening to the top of the fender. The passenger side is better. There's 1.77 scale inch difference between the driver and passenger sides. I'm going to fudge each side (take some off the driver's, add to the passenger's) to get them closer. If I had it to do over, I would have used the the tops of the Camaro fenders all the way out to the nose piece. 

Edited March 17, 2021 by Plowboy

[Snake45]

11 minutes ago, Plowboy said:

It's thicker from the top of the wheel opening to the top of the fender. 

That's because the top of the wheel opening is based on the character line, which wasn't raised as it should have been. 

[Scott8950]

impressive work as usual..

[Plowboy]

20 minutes ago, Snake45 said:

That's because the top of the wheel opening is based on the character line, which wasn't raised as it should have been. 

Apparently it was. Both bodies measure the same from the bottom of the body to the character line.

[AMT68]

Great work grafting the Camaro roof onto the Firebird body. I'm looking at my Firebird which is currently unbuilt and some of what stands out is the front windshield was not brought up high enough and the rear quarters should have a more rounded appearance where it meets the back of the car. Not having your skills I'll probably just build mine as it is out of the box but I'll probably build up the drip rails with styrene rods since the trim lines are barely molded around the side windows. 

[Snake45]

19 hours ago, Plowboy said:

Apparently it was. Both bodies measure the same from the bottom of the body to the character line.

If they raised it, they didn't raise it enough. Here's the MPC Camaro body compared with the Revell. You'll see the same difference if you compare your MPC Firebird body with a good profile photo of a real '69 Firebird. 

Weird fact: The MPC '68 and '69 Camaro bodies are narrower than they should be, but the Firebird isn't. I don't know why. 

[Plowboy]

21 hours ago, Snake45 said:

If they raised it, they didn't raise it enough. Here's the MPC Camaro body compared with the Revell. You'll see the same difference if you compare your MPC Firebird body with a good profile photo of a real '69 Firebird. 

Weird fact: The MPC '68 and '69 Camaro bodies are narrower than they should be, but the Firebird isn't. I don't know why. 

The issue is above the character line. It's not the position of it. As I stated earlier, it measures the same from the bottom of the body as the Revell '69 Camaro.  This was guide I used to cut the roof section from the Camaro. Notice the distance from the top of the guide to the top of the fenders, door and quarter panels.

Same guide, same position. Notice the difference? 

To get an accurate Firebird, one would need to use most of the Revell Camaro IMO. That or section the Firebird body above the beltline. If this were an important build to me or I was planning on casting it, I would do it. But, this is just a for fun build. It has taught me that there is a better way than the way I did it.

[Snake45]

18 minutes ago, Plowboy said:

To get an accurate Firebird, one would need to use most of the Revell Camaro IMO. That or section the Firebird body above the beltline. 

I agree with you completely. In fact, you've got me thinking about making a "phantom" '69 Firebird using the Revell Camaro body and the MPC front and rear ends and hood. The big difference between my idea and the real car is that the character line on the front fenders wouldn't carry forward of the wheel openings. Which, IMHO, might look better. 

BTW, I see that I forgot to add the pic last night, or it didn't load for some reason. Here it is. 

[Plowboy]

I've got more work done to the body. I temp glued the hood to the body so that I could get it, the fenders and nose piece to all match up. And I decided the direction it's going to take. I have another set of wheels in mind also. These were just handy and I stuck them under it.

The chassis just resting on the wheels and tires at the moment. But, it gives me an idea of how low I'll be able to get it.

I did a mini tub on the back half. Just have to narrow the gas tank and glue it back on. I'll narrow the rearend however much is needed. 

I'm going to let this project idle for a while. I have two other projects that I want to get finished up as they've been idling for a while. I'll hit it here and there when/if I get a chance. Plus, it'll give me a chance to get more ideas. No idea what engine I'm going to use or colors.

[Steve H]

What a tease !! It was just getting interesting ! Awesome stance, and for what it’s worth, those wheels look great. I look forward to seeing this come together.

Cheers, Steve

[Plowboy]

Thanx Steve! I'm pushing it along when I get a chance. I'm trying to get the body tuned in. I decided since I'm going with a modern look, to shave off all of the marker lights, emblems, rocker and wheelwell trim. The marker lights were barely there anyway. It's getting closer to being ready for final primer. Still have some putty work here and there to do.

I came up with an easy way to narrow the rearend from the Camaro. I first cut the axle shafts loose from the rearend and sanded them to get rid of the mold lines.

Then I drilled an appropriate sized hole through the stump.

Then I slid the axle shafts into the stump and placed it on the frame in it's new location. Now all I have to do is center the stump, get the pinion angle where it needs to be and hit the joints with some Tamiya Extra Thin. 

It works like a charm! All I had to measure was the diameter of the axle shafts. The rest was simple. Next, I have to get the wheel tubs filled in and the gas tank glued back on. Then I'll see how much I can get the suspension lowered.

I haven't got an engine picked out yet. I'd kinda like to have a Pontiac engine. But, I may just stick a big block from a Camaro in it. I know it'll fit easily!

[Snake45]

Probably the best looking '69 Firebird model I've ever seen. Drive on! 

[Steve H]

Hi Roger, nice to see an update on this one. I’m definitely going to tuck that rear end narrowing trick in the memory bank, well played. Dare I suggest Vedoro green for the body colour... Curious if you ever figured out the missing 3mm on the hood? I must say it gives me some comfort that a modeller of your caliber has what I call “voodoo” moments too. I had one of those issues with my Ol Comino build and the interior door panels. Sometimes it seems no matter how much we measure, double check etc. something still doesn’t add up. Anywhooo, look forward to watching this come together.

Cheers, Steve

[1972coronet]

4 hours ago, Plowboy said:

I haven't got an engine picked out yet. I'd kinda like to have a Pontiac engine. But, I may just stick a big block from a Camaro in it. I know it'll fit easily!

If you're open to a suggestion : the 250 OHC-6 engine would be fab !