Incompetence and the "new normal"...

[Ace-Garageguy]

15 million vaccines for the-disease-that-cannot-be-named from Johnson & Johnson were contaminated during production and wasted.

Big oopsie...but at least they caught it prior to distribution.

Still, you'd kinda think they'd be more careful with something like this, wouldn't you?

EDIT: I provided a link, but on second thought removed it, as it could be interpreted as "political" by someone who doesn't understand English.

Edited April 1, 2021 by Ace-Garageguy

[Snake45]

I'm amazed (and thankful) every day when ANYTHING still works anymore. 

[OldNYJim]

Somewhat related - dealing with our vendors where we work is getting to be a bigger and bigger struggle - we have to make constant phone calls and chase repeatedly to give THEM an order, then chase constantly to make sure it actually arrives, then when it does arrive we don't get what we asked for.

We recently ordered five sheets of a particular material; each of them measuring 4 feet square.  A week later we received FOUR sheets, each measuring 5ft by 5ft.  The vendor argued that we got the same square footage of material that we wanted, just cut 'slightly' differently to how we had specced it.

We're always amazed that so many companies we deal with do such a bad job, but still manage to keep the doors open and the lights on.  I've been pushing for us to start handling as much manufacturing in-house as we can to get away from dealing with these idiots - a step which the upper management here is fortunately smart enough to see is worthwhile.

[Kromolly]

I have a similar problem doing my job. Sometimes I feel like I am begging vendors to sell something to me.  

Edited April 2, 2021 by Kromolly

[Snake45]

1 hour ago, CabDriver said:

We recently ordered five sheets of a particular material; each of them measuring 4 feet square.  A week later we received FOUR sheets, each measuring 5ft by 5ft.  The vendor argued that we got the same square footage of material that we wanted,

Guy didn't pass elementary school arithmetic, did he? 

If you didn't need five pieces 4 feet square, and you paid by the square footage, you might have made out. He might have charged you for 80 square feet and delivered 100 square feet. 

[1972coronet]

[OldNYJim]

21 minutes ago, Snake45 said:

Guy didn't pass elementary school arithmetic, did he? 

If you didn't need five pieces 4 feet square, and you paid by the square footage, you might have made out. He might have charged you for 80 square feet and delivered 100 square feet. 

Exactly!  Haha! 

We frequently come across people for whom actual accurate measurements and specifications are at best a fluke, and at worse a complete guess.   

 

[1930fordpickup]

Many People are working long hours with little relief in sight. 10 to 12 hours a day is becoming the norm. Tired employees make more mistakes than well rested ones do. The stress level is getting higher by the day. 

 

[Tom Geiger]

5 hours ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

15 million vaccines for the-disease-that-cannot-be-named from Johnson & Johnson were contaminated during production and wasted.

Big oopsie...but at least they caught it prior to distribution.

Still, you'd kinda think they'd be more careful with something like this, wouldn't you?

I have to answer this...

From inside the Pharma bio industry.. the press has made a big deal over nothing. A single batch was rejected. An everyday occurrence and product loss is figured into production.

With very rigid quality standards at every step of the process, an entire batch will be rejected for an abnormality in any of the samples.

Those rejected batches get used for training, calibration of equipment and research. 

Incompetence would be NO product rejections in this business!

Edited April 1, 2021 by Tom Geiger

[1972coronet]

33 minutes ago, 1930fordpickup said:

Many People are working long hours with little relief in sight. 10 to 12 hours a day is becoming the norm. Tired employees make more mistakes than well rested ones do. The stress level is getting higher by the day. 

 

 

5 minutes ago, Tom Geiger said:

I have to answer this...

From inside the Pharma bio industry.. the press has made a big deal over nothing. A single batch was rejected. An everyday occurrence and product loss is figured into production.

With very rigid quality standards at every step of the process, an entire batch will be rejected for an abnormality in any of the samples.

Those rejected batches get used for training, calibration of equipment and research. 

Incompetence would be NO product rejections in this business!

Both very valid points , albeit potentially mutually-exclusive . Tired , stressed , hungry , etc. , employees are apt to make counterproductive mistakes ; this a potentially very dangerous action... life-threatening at worst . 

Yes , the media embellishes via hyperbole any event , however minute (  depending upon which sponsors are writing the pay cheques ) .
As @Tom Geigerpointed to ; any anomalies are subject to rejection in-regard to  immunisations /  inoculations . 

When did mediocrity become the high-water marque ?  

[Ace-Garageguy]

2 hours ago, 1972coronet said:

...When did mediocrity become the high-water marque ?  

Look to the "everyone's a winner" (and just-not-good-enough being acceptable) mentality that's been sneaking into education, and it's not hard to figure out the source of the problem.

And I'm always intrigued amused by folks who try to pass off idiocy, slacking, excuse-making, poor quality, and failure as doing-the-job.

I just got hit again using one of my current vendor's website, where their catalog repeatedly locks up while searching it, and nobody on the phone "tech support" is capable of telling me which of their own rack bushings fits one of their most popular steering racks.

Crapola like this costs me literally hundreds of dollars of lost productivity...and INCOME...every month, WHILE I DO SOMEBODY ELSE'S JOB.

EDIT: But of course, someone who's not personally responsible for turning out something tangible to a consistently high standard in spite of morons in the supply chain wouldn't grasp the frustration inherent in dealing with them constantly.

Edited April 1, 2021 by Ace-Garageguy

[Ace-Garageguy]

1 hour ago, 1972coronet said:

...Yes , the media embellishes via hyperbole any event , however minute (  depending upon which sponsors are writing the pay cheques ) .
As @Tom Geigerpointed to ; any anomalies are subject to rejection in-regard to  immunisations /  inoculations . 

10-15 MILLION doses contaminated and unusable?

No wonder pharmaceuticals cost so much. 

Oh...but it's OK. It's just part of the way things are done in the industry.

Maybe so, but I couldn't stay in business if I made errors on that relative scale.

[Matt Bacon]

40 minutes ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

10-15 MILLION doses contaminated and unusable?

No wonder pharmaceuticals cost so much. 

Oh...but it's OK. It's just part of the way things are done in the industry.

Maybe so, but I couldn't stay in business if I made errors on that relative scale.

Depending where you are in the process, 15m.  doses is between about 1lb of pure RNA vaccine and 2000 gallons of liquid. Making it Is a complex biological and biochemical process that’s a lot more like breeding winning racehorses than building cars, and you don’t know what you’ve got until the end. And believe me, I’d rather be safe than sorry when it comes to injecting a cocktail of teeny tiny supposedly tame disease machines into my arm...

best,

M.

[Ace-Garageguy]

4 minutes ago, Matt Bacon said:

...you don’t know what you’ve got until the end...

Interesting point of view, when the media is reporting the problem as "contamination by workers".

I usually know whether I've mixed antifreeze with engine oil.

Edited April 1, 2021 by Ace-Garageguy

[1972coronet]

1 hour ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

Look to the "everyone's a winner" (and just-not-good-enough being acceptable) mentality that's been sneaking into education, and it's not hard to figure out the source of the problem.

And I'm always intrigued amused by folks who try to pass off idiocy, slacking, excuse-making, poor quality, and failure as doing-the-job.

I just got hit again using one of my current vendor's website, where their catalog repeatedly locks up while searching it, and nobody on the phone "tech support" is capable of telling me which of their own rack bushings fits one of their most popular steering racks.

Crapola like this costs me literally hundreds of dollars of lost productivity...and INCOME...every month, WHILE I DO SOMEBODY ELSE'S JOB.

EDIT: But of course, someone who's not personally responsible for turning out something tangible to a consistently high standard in spite of morons in the supply chain wouldn't grasp the frustration inherent in dealing with them constantly.

Ever since the 80's --when I was in my teens-- I've been saying , "Strive ! For Mediocrity !" , as a goof on the "motivational" poster in my high school councillor's office . I was already cynical and bitter by age 15 , 16 ; I saw what the future held , and I felt defeated by grade 10 . 

I quit my last job because of the way that the owner ran his precious operation : snatch defeat from the jaws of victory ; harangue and admonish everybody ; labour violations ( class action suit changed his tune quickly -- someone got tired enough of the dehumanising , and decided to nail his butt to the wall ) , etc. , etc.  I also got sick of seeing part-after-part which weren't made in the U.S. ( or Germany , England , Japan , etc. ) , and the mediocre "quality" therein . Certainly , that last statement isn't exclusive to the parts store I worked at . 

Add the "Participation Trophy" generation I had to endure --when and if they decided to come to work-- and I was just done with it all .

[Classicgas]

This thread eventually will become political.  Mods do your thing. 

[bobthehobbyguy]

Its easy to blame the employees for all the problems. The mistakes and the don't care attitude is a product of the environment they work in. 

Henry Ford discovered that he had to pay his workers more because the constant turnover was costing more than it was saving. Unfortunately those running the businesses now don't understand that. 

[Ace-Garageguy]

2 hours ago, 1972coronet said:

...I also got sick of seeing part-after-part which weren't made in the U.S. ( or Germany , England , Japan , etc. ) , and the mediocre "quality" therein . Certainly , that last statement isn't exclusive to the parts store I worked at . 

Add the "Participation Trophy" generation I had to endure --when and if they decided to come to work-- and I was just done with it all .

Yup. I'm right there with you. I could write a book on the frustration and bitterness that comes from constantly having to deal with folks who just don't care to do any "quality" work, or who seem to be missing the brain software that allows them to even identify it...and the ones who look down their noses at anyone who does actual physical labor, even if it's very highly skilled.

The two projects I'm finishing up now will be my last work for clients.

[Vietnam Vet67]

Johnson & Johnson had asbestos in baby powder for over 50 years until they got caught in 2019  and we are supposed to trust them!

What a laugh !!

 

[Ace-Garageguy]

42 minutes ago, bobthehobbyguy said:

Its easy to blame the employees for all the problems. The mistakes and the don't care attitude is a product of the environment they work in. 

Henry Ford discovered that he had to pay his workers more because the constant turnover was costing more than it was saving. Unfortunately those running the businesses now don't understand that. 

Nobody is blaming "the employees for all the problems". But you don't pay some mouth-breather $25 per hour to hide and play on his "smart" phone all day, or who seems to think he can start at the top because he has a shiny little degree in the philosophy of basket-weaving.

A high 5-figure income ($70,000 per annum+) is possible at both the shops I subcontract with, but we can't find any entry-level trainees willing to put in the effort to learn the work. And the "experienced" ones are almost without exception absolutely clueless too. We can't even find competent floor-sweepers.

Far as history goes, one of ol' Henry's motivations to pay his workers the unprecedented-in-the-industry $5 per day (which his contemporaries in automobile manufacturing management thought was insane) was that he felt he'd get more engaged workers if they could afford to buy what they built. He was right...but times have changed. We're in the everyone-wants-something-for-nothing era, and I don't see it changing any time soon.

I've owned several technical services and small manufacturing businesses over the last 5 decades, and after churning through a few hires-and-fires, I was always able to put together a decent crew after a little while (I paid my people well, too). Today, nobody even wants to interview once they find out there's no AC, they might get dirty, and there are "dangerous" sharp things around. Eeeewwwwww. Icky.

Edited April 2, 2021 by Ace-Garageguy

[Dragline]

14 hours ago, Classicgas said:

This thread eventually will become political.  Mods do your thing. 

I see no reason for this to become political unless someone wishes it to. It's about "Pride" in workmanship and accepting responsibly for ones failings. The "trophy" generation is all instant gratification and zero ground work. The digital age has shown them that somehow there are millions of jobs that require ZERO effort or at the very least minimum effort that make above average living wages. They are encouraged to seek paths of least resistance as a way to skirt effort and knowledge as a basis for career paths that will eventually go nowhere. I worked in Auto Parts like at least one other here. I know what the smallest common denominator in knowledge and effort eventually lead too. It's leads to mediorcrity and substandard service and advice.

Raising a false RED flag upon this conversation shows me a few things. I dislike the implication that it be shut down when it seems that there is consensus among those involved.

[Classicgas]

All I am saying is this started about the stupid vaccine, and there are lots of opinions on it, and I'm concerned that it may blow up. I have no qualms talking about workmanship. I hope you are correct.?

Edited April 2, 2021 by Classicgas

[bobthehobbyguy]

17 hours ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

Nobody is blaming "the employees for all the problems". But you don't pay some mouth-breather $25 per hour to hide and play on his "smart" phone all day, or who seems to think he can start at the top because he has a shiny little degree in the philosophy of basket-weaving.

A high 5-figure income ($70,000 per annum+) is possible at both the shops I subcontract with, but we can't find any entry-level trainees willing to put in the effort to learn the work. And the "experienced" ones are almost without exception absolutely clueless too. We can't even find competent floor-sweepers.

Far as history goes, one of ol' Henry's motivations to pay his workers the unprecedented-in-the-industry $5 per day (which his contemporaries in automobile manufacturing management thought was insane) was that he felt he'd get more engaged workers if they could afford to buy what they built. He was right...but times have changed. We're in the everyone-wants-something-for-nothing era, and I don't see it changing any time soon.

I've owned several technical services and small manufacturing businesses over the last 5 decades, and after churning through a few hires-and-fires, I was always able to put together a decent crew after a little while (I paid my people well, too). Today, nobody even wants to interview once they find out there's no AC, they might get dirty, and there are "dangerous" sharp things around. Eeeewwwwww. Icky.

That is one part of it. But it isn't the whole story.

But we also have the greedy corporate management that want to avoid paying people well and provide no benefits. The management mantra is how cheap can we do it for despite that isn't the cost effective means. You complain about poor customer service. Some of the bad service is that employees aren't provided adequate training or the resources to do the job.  Customer  service is a buzz word and nothing more. They want to say they do it but don't really mean.

And regards to the vaccine issue. Given the rigid requirements doing batches in such large quantities has the risk of losing the whole batch if there is a problem. Besides given cooperate greed these days if the vaccine could have beemn pushed out somehow it would have been done.

Edited April 2, 2021 by bobthehobbyguy

[Danno]

I guess I misread the title of the thread.  I thought this was going to be about a "new normal" in incontinence. 

Actually, I'm relieved that it wasn't.

??

 

[bobthehobbyguy]

A comment on the cell phone generation. Scientific studies have shown that cell phones alter how we thing. When you compound that with parents who give toddlers cell phones to keep them occupied its no surprise that they're going to be constantly fiddling with their phones.