Hemi Engines 1971 Cuda vs others, Scale issues.

[Mattilacken]

Ok, so i create this content mostly because i am confused. When building my 1971 Cuda and wanted to swap some other parts to it from other kits i noticed that the Cuda engine is huge.

Had to do a comparison on my different available Hemi Engines.

From the top

#1 Chevy LT5 1/24 as refference.

#2 2JZ inline 6 tamiya 1/24 as refference.

#3 What i found in my 1971 Cuda kit. 1/24 scale

#4 1/24 F/C revell Nitro methanol Hemi

#5 Parts box 426 with manual gear box, this engine is most likley from 1/25 1967 revell Charger.

                     Engine L      Head L     Gearbox L

Cuda.           28mm          25,8mm     32,8mm

FC Hemi.      23,1mm       22,4mm                             

Revell 1/25.  22,6mm       21,7mm      35,5mm               

Doing the scale math on the 1/25 revell engine wich i belive to be quite accurate since the kit came out in 2000. A Heami cylinder head should have a length around 542,5mm wich in 24 scale would be 22,6mm wich is close to what the FC Hemi has so far so good. But then the cuda engine is 3,4mm longer, that would be 81mm in 1:1!

This makes me come to the conclusion that the Cuda engine actualy is in 1:21 scale. Body wise seems ok being a 1/24.

Whats your thoughts on this topic? I will proabobly end up putting the Revell engine in it since it in my opinion looks more right than the original engine.

 

Best regards Anton

[Casey]

4 hours ago, Mattilacken said:

the Cuda engine is huge.

Whats your thoughts on this topic? I will proabobly end up putting the Revell engine in it since it in my opinion looks more right than the original engine.

It was mentioned here on the forum by someone that the engines in many Monogram kit were designed 10% larger, and the '71 Hemi in the 'Cuda seems to bear that out. 

['70 Grande]

I've been building that same Revell Hemi Cuda kit and made the following conclusions... that motor has some quirky design flaws that make the basic block about 15% longer from front to rear, (not including the trans), and about 10% too tall than it should be in 1:1.  (Look at all the blank extra space on the long intake manifold).  The oil pan depth scales-out to be pretty close to 1/24 scale, but the heads are also 10%+ taller than in the 1:1 world. 

I don't think the engine is simply 10% larger overall... it's just a messed-up design in multiple places.

[Mattilacken]

It’s strange but I guess they wanted the engine to really fill the bay. 

How is it with the engine in the top of my stack, LT5 from Monogram? it seemed to be about the same size as the one found in the AMT kit but much bigger than a LS.

[CapSat 6]

If you wanted to do a better Hemi in 1/24, you could always try to start with a Monogram 440 block, and add Hemi heads and an intake from another engine that fit that 440 block. 
 

The 440 and Hemi blocks weren’t all that different in 1:1. Also, the Hemi Cuda Hemi doesn’t have a water pump, while the Monogram 440’s (Super Bee, Road Runner, GTX) do. 

[tim boyd]

I was told by an ex-executive of Monogram that, yes, they often did slightly exaggerate the size of engines in their kits, as they felt this provided a more authentic appearance when viewed as a scale replica vs. the real car.  This was in the 1970''s and early 1980's tooled kits; I doubt they would do this today.  TB  

[1972coronet]

24 minutes ago, tim boyd said:

I was told by an ex-executive of Monogram that, yes, they often did slightly exaggerate the size of engines in their kits, as they felt this provided a more authentic appearance when viewed as a scale replica vs. the real car.  This was in the 1970''s and early 1980's tooled kits; I doubt they would do this today.  TB  

Like their  LA engine series ( 1970 Challenger T/A and Ramcharger ) ? Those engines --while looking good in their respective vehicles' boiler rooms-- are huge compared to a comparable 1/25 scale engine .

Their 440+6 isn't a bad looking engine , esp. the 1994 & newer induction ( from the 1971 GTX ) setup with its much better representation of Holley 2300s .

[afx]

We need Revell to tool up a nice new 1/25 scale '71 Cuda.

[Classicgas]

1 hour ago, afx said:

We need Revell to tool up a nice new 1/25 scale '71 Cuda.

X2!

[Mattilacken]

1 hour ago, afx said:

We need Revell to tool up a nice new 1/25 scale '71 Cuda.

X3, how hard can it be since they have the 1970?

[dodgefever]

The latest Revell '70 is horribly bloated compared with the old MPC and Johan bodies.   I wouldn't hold out much hope for an accurate '71.

[tim boyd]

2 hours ago, dodgefever said:

The latest Revell '70 is horribly bloated compared with the old MPC and Johan bodies.  

Respectfully disagree.  Not perfect, but neither was the MPC body, it turns out.  With minimal mods the latest Revell '70 body can be made to a much more accurate appearance, as detailed in an article in the "Muscle Cars, Resto-Mods and Pro-Touring" one-off mag available earlier this year, and in two concurrent on-line articles at finescale.com.   Most of these mods can be done by any reasonably experienced modeler, and they go a long way in eliminating what someone called (pretty accurately in my book) the 1969 Camaro "fat front fender look" of the unmodified Revell body, all while preserving the outstanding accuracy and detail of the chassis, powertrain, interior, and underhood of the Revell kit which blows away the original MPC kit.  As for the JoHan kit, yes it is well done, but it's an early Pro-Stock, not a factory stock replica. 

Again, and as I've mentioned in the past, I realize many readers of this forum disagree with me on this subject.  That's fine, viva la difference; and to each his own. 

Here is a kitbash - incorporating the body mods in the articles mentioned above - of the latest Revell '70 Hemi-'cuda and AAR kits into a 340-4bbl B5 Blue car representing how I would have ordered the real car had I been old enough (and had the financial resources) back in 1970....If interested, see more images here...

Best...TIM

 

 

[Mattilacken]

On 12/3/2021 at 7:58 PM, tim boyd said:

Not perfect, but neither was the MPC body, it turns out….

I am no expert in any body style and to me both the revel ‘69 Camaro and ‘70 Cuda looks the part. I have heard things about trim issues and sow on, I am just glad it builds in to a nice model of the cars without way to much hassle as I feel there is with the ‘71 Cuda and many other amt, monogram, Revel and Mpc kits.
 

One thing I can’t get in to my head is how the newer tooled kits from the revel brand can have so many problems with fitment in comparison to their Japanese counterparts. Have not tried anything newer from Revell than 2000ish though. 
 

Any how thanks for al the input in this matter! 

[afx]

Count me a fan of the Revell Cuda as well:

'70 'Cuda T/A:

 

'71 Barracuda project:

Edited December 5, 2021 by afx

[Mattilacken]

17 hours ago, afx said:

'71 Barracuda project:

Nice builds! Is the '71 based on the newer tool '70 cuda or the old tool?

 

Edit: noticed the fenders so thats a '70 being converted right? Is it a 3d printed grill on there?

Edited December 6, 2021 by Mattilacken

[afx]

21 minutes ago, Mattilacken said:

Nice builds! Is the '71 based on the newer tool '70 cuda or the old tool?

 

Edit: noticed the fenders so thats a '70 being converted right? Is it a 3d printed grill on there?

Thanks Anton.  It's the new tool Revell in 1/25 scale.  The grille, front valance and taillight panel comes from the Monogram 1/24 scale '71 Hemi Cuda. Here is the thread for the conversion.   

The '71 Barracuda didn't have the fender gills.

Edited December 6, 2021 by afx

[Mattilacken]

Aha! I see! so it just the 'Cuda that have fender grills? I understod though that it was the newer revell tool since you di't have those there becuase not may would remove them on the 1/24 kit.

I realy like your work on it! And hope to see it finished some day ?

[afx]

Correct. The '71 'Cuda had the gills, the base model Barracuda did not.