Ferrari 275P #23, for the 1964 Sebring 12 Hour community build

[Ace-Garageguy]

This one has made it back to the bench, so it's time to give it its own thread.

Starting with a gloobomb Monogram 275P. This is going to be more work than I thought. Heavy gloo on everything, window unit effectively ruined, etc.

Teardown was complete a while back (I had to do something in order to reserve the car numbers I wanted), except for sawing off the heavily glooed fairing and interior bits. Getting the wheels out of the tires without destroying anything wasn't easy, but everything is still OK. The builder apparently used what remained of the tube after assembling everything else to make sure the wheels would hold together at 200MPH.

This week's photos to follow shortly. It's not going to be as bad as I'd thought, as long as I keep it a curbside. 

Edited March 10, 2023 by Ace-Garageguy

[Pierre Rivard]

Nice to see this one started Ace. Are you doing the #22 car with full engine detail (Andy's rules) or one of the other 3 ?

Hope you keep posting, really interested to follow this one.

[cobraman]

What's your plan for the windshield Bill ?  Any chance of finding another ? Can this one be saved ? 

[250 Testa Rossa]

Can't wait to see how this turns out!

[bobthehobbyguy]

Interesting project. Looking forward to seeing more progress.

Glad to see you're getting some bench time I always learn from your projects.

[Ace-Garageguy]

7 hours ago, Pierre Rivard said:

Nice to see this one started Ace. Are you doing the #22 car with full engine detail (Andy's rules) or one of the other 3 ?

Hope you keep posting, really interested to follow this one.

Thanks. If I recall the rules correctly (I ought to check) only the class winners are required to have engines. As I'm doing the #23 car, which I believe finished second in the race, she'll be curbside only.

I specifically picked cars that wouldn't require full detail, as knowing my propensity for getting bogged down in scale engineering, I figured I should avoid the temptation if I wanted to finish this thing before I die.   

[Gramps46]

Bill, I have this windsheild that might be savable for the 275P.  Send me an email with an adress.

[Ace-Garageguy]

8 hours ago, cobraman said:

What's your plan for the windshield Bill ?  Any chance of finding another ? Can this one be saved ? 

I do have a virgin kit that I could steal a windshield from, but they're kinda rare...and they also have the wiper molded in, which I'd need to file and sand and polish off to get the appearance I'm after.

So I have a twofold plan: 

1) Make a negative mold of the windshield frame, which is part of the clear molded kit part. I've given it some thought, and purchased the thinnest fiberglass woven cloth on the planet specifically so I could do a minimum 3-layer (positive part) lamination that would be reasonably close to scale thickness. My old thinnest cloth was about .0035", while the new stuff is .001"!

With the very high strength aircraft epoxy I use, I can do extremely thin laminations that are way stronger and stiffer than an equivalent thickness of styrene, and strong enough to withstand filing, finishing, etc. The frame gets painted body color, so it needs to be tough enough to be handled.

2) Sand off the frame and wiper detail from the buggered kit part, repair it as necessary to form a perfect "plug", get as many waves out of it as possible for good optics, polish it, then make a negative mold of the windshield, and make a positive mold from that, that I can vacuum-form clear PET over. The part vacuum-formed over the positive mold will, of course, be oversized by the thickness of the PET...which may or may not be an issue.

The f'glass frame and the PET windshield should be flexible enough (I think) that they can be mated, with the frame on the outside of the "glass" (just like the real car), held together with PVA glue, and correctly fit the body with minor fiddling.

Sounds like a huge PITA, but I've seen one completed that used a vac-formed windshield with a painted-on frame (which is a fallback option if the fiberglass frame doesn't work out), and it looked really good...much better than the thick styrene kit piece.

Wish me luck.  

EDIT: I do want to build a full-detail version of the 275P if I live long enough, so having the windshield molds already made saves a little time there. 

Edited March 11, 2023 by Ace-Garageguy

[Ace-Garageguy]

19 minutes ago, Gramps46 said:

Bill, I have this windsheild that might be savable for the 275P.  Send me an email with an adress.

Thank you very much, but I have a plan that should work one way or another (see above).  

[Ace-Garageguy]

5 hours ago, 250 Testa Rossa said:

Can't wait to see how this turns out!

 

3 hours ago, bobthehobbyguy said:

Interesting project. Looking forward to seeing more progress.

Glad to see you're getting some bench time I always learn from your projects.

Thank you both for your interest and comments.

It's kinda interesting to me, but I've found if I take the time to get on the model bench, even a little, it makes my real-world-work more pleasurable too...which I guess is kinda the whole idea of having a hobby anyway, eh?

And hopefully I'll learn something from this one too.  

Edited March 10, 2023 by Ace-Garageguy

[Pierre Rivard]

37 minutes ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

Thanks. If I recall the rules correctly (I ought to check) only the class winners are required to have engines. As I'm doing the #23 car, which I believe finished second in the race, she'll be curbside only.

I specifically picked cars that wouldn't require full detail, as knowing my propensity for getting bogged down in scale engineering, I figured I should avoid the temptation if I wanted to finish this thing before I die.   

You're right Ace, the winner #22 requires the full detail w engine. You're safe with #23 ?

[Gramps46]

2 hours ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

Thank you very much, but I have a plan that should work one way or another (see above).  

I wish you well on your plan.  

Gary (fading back into the bushes)  ?

[Ace-Garageguy]

Interesting shot of a real one shows shows the relationship between the windshield and side window frames, and the clear plexiglass.

If I can hold the thickness of my f'glass frames to less than .010" (about a scale 1/4 inch), I believe I can get very close to this look, and the slight oversize of the PET screen shouldn't be a problem at all, due to the simple curvature allowing a tiny amount of material to be shaved from the edges to compensate.

Another interesting feature in this shot is the apparent seam between the wing or cockpit fairing or whatever they called it on this car, and the rear body shell.

Some restored cars show the two parts smoothly molded together, some with a visible seam like this. Time for more research.

Another thing that differs from the Monogram kit parts is the relatively narrow outside-laced front wire wheels shown here, much deeper and inside laced on the rear. All the Monogram kit wheels represent the wide, inside laced design.

 

Edited March 11, 2023 by Ace-Garageguy

[Gramps46]

When I built mine I replaced the kit wheels with modified PE spokes and made the front outside laced.  I should go back and put large openings in the interior side panels.

[Ace-Garageguy]

41 minutes ago, Gramps46 said:

When I built mine I replaced the kit wheels with modified PE spokes and made the front outside laced...

Looks really good.   

[Pierre Rivard]

Agree, Gary's 275P looks really good, definitely something to shoot for. 

I don't totally get what you are planning for the greenhouse so it will be fun to follow and learn from.

[Gramps46]

Here is the cut out in doors I was telling you about.

And some color pics of #23 at Sebring.  More for inspiration than information I am afraid.

 

 

 

 

 

[Ace-Garageguy]

1 hour ago, Gramps46 said:

Here is the cut out in doors I was telling you about...

...And some color pics of #23 at Sebring.  More for inspiration than information I am afraid.

THANK YOU for those. There actually is a lot of information in them that I needed, like the apparent hard seam at the junction of the cockpit fairing and the rear bodywork (unlike the softly molded-in version on at least one restored car), and a better idea of the relationship between the windshield frame and the perspex, and how much thicker and heavier it is at the base than I'd thought previously.

MUCH appreciated. 

Edited March 12, 2023 by Ace-Garageguy

[Pierre Rivard]

Great pictures. Much better than working off pics of restored cars

I'm really tempted to start search for one of these vintage 275P kits...

[Smilesperhour]

I'll follow this.

Looks like you've done a good job of getting it all apart. I feel I'd end up braking something critical

[Ace-Garageguy]

I did get another cheap, trashed body for the project, as the one I'm working with, and will use, had so much gloo slathered on some areas that I couldn't really tell what they were supposed to look like.

The extra body is more for reference than anything else...and sadly, the extra wire wheels and tires that came with it are 1/32.

 

 

[89AKurt]

I can't participate in this, but if it helps, will post a link to my WIP Mongrel.  I addressed the windshield, inside door detail, lights, that could be used on a normal build.

[Gramps46]

Bill, if you don't have the Nov/Dec 1996 Volume 6 Number 1 issue of Motor Racing Replica News (MRRN) let me know.  There is a 5-page article with drawings on the 250/275P by Jeff Edmondson.  I had forgotten all about it until I saw my own post in Kurt's thread above. ?

 

[Ace-Garageguy]

Tried to find it on eBay, no luck...but I sure wish I'd known about that publication a long time ago. 

[Gramps46]

Though not #23 this might be helpful.

 

Edited March 22, 2023 by Gramps46