Round2 July 2023

[Bainford]

14 hours ago, 1972coronet said:

 

I wonder how many among us - notoriously cheap lot we are - would be willing to spend a little more to have a kit with those (wonderful) adhesive emblems/scripts ?

I certainly would. However, I am not buying any kit whose emblems, scripts, and badges are represented with water-slide decals. I see no point in pouring heart & soul into the finish of a build that, no matter well you do, will never look authentic with cheesy decals for badges.

[Ragtop Man]

Clarification / context:  The additional parts that appear in the new release of the Galaxie are a win for anyone fortunate enough to own a '67 -'68 builder kit. They are often mangled or broken, will take any freebies available to get one on the shelf intact. 

Engraved scripts are a legacy of the very first kits - adhesive foils were unknown at the time, and chrome silver flowed like water.

Adhesive transfers would be a great addition to select modern kits, but they have two issues - one, making them in scale and still removable from the backing without damage; two for more novice builders, they are not forgiving to mistakes in placement. 

Greg Tufford designed a series of outstanding dimensional metal adhesive emblem transfers in the 90's, which I had the good fortune to hoard. His supply chain became unreliable, and he ended up discontinuing the parts. He would have excellent insight on how practical those would be.

If a kit company (Revell, Round 2) were to come forward with an order of sufficient size to amortize the development, and the kit could land at the desired retail price point, it could be done. My guess about RoG and Tamiya (and others) is that worldwide distribution and production makes the per-kit investment much more digestible vs a domestic-only order of 5-10,000 kits that Moby or AMT would have to chin. 

[Dave Darby]

17 hours ago, niteowl7710 said:

Cause that would have made their $1.69 kit closer to $3 and Armageddon would have ensued...obviously.

I mean just a few posts ago there was a celebration about additional exhaust parts in a 56 yr old kit being a "win". (No offense, just making a point)

Those exhaust parts were already there. It was just a matter of opening the gates. Nothing against the idea -  self adhesive emblems would be nice, but would have to be designed, produced, and procured. 

[Luc Janssens]

25 minutes ago, Dave Darby said:

Those exhaust parts were already there. It was just a matter of opening the gates. Nothing against the idea -  self adhesive emblems would be nice, but would have to be designed, produced, and procured. 

Same can be said for decals, but It's an old art, a long friend. So maybe its more like old habits.... time will tell.

But until then the aftermarket can fill that void, Zoom on already does it for some European and Asian cars brands.

Cheers

Luc

[Jeff M]

I'm very happy to see those gates opened up. Those chrome reverse wheels in this 1967 through 69 Galaxie kits were my favorite wheel choice back in the day. They are actually a 2 piece rim and only looks to be missing the deep outside rims.  I wonder what current issue AMT kit would have the deep outside wheel rings to go with the these centers?

[1972coronet]

3 hours ago, Jeff M said:

I'm very happy to see those gates opened up. Those chrome reverse wheels in this 1967 through 69 Galaxie kits were my favorite wheel choice back in the day. They are actually a 2 piece rim and only looks to be missing the deep outside rims.  I wonder what current issue AMT kit would have the deep outside wheel rings to go with the these centers?

My thoughts exactly : Where are the hoops for those chrome reverse rims ? 

[Mark]

2 minutes ago, 1972coronet said:

My thoughts exactly : Where are the hoops for those chrome reverse rims ? 

Most likely replaced by one of the other sets of wheels now in the '69 kit.  You'd have to compare trees from the new issue '69 to intact parts trees from a '68 to figure that out.

[StevenGuthmiller]

On 7/1/2023 at 7:07 PM, monza77 said:

I am envious of the SciFi kit builders. They get gold and chrome foil decals and we get to try and foil the scripts that are stuck on the sides of most manufacturers car bodies.

Isn’t it funny how innovation  continues to move forward with car models, but the modelers never seem to be able to be satisfied.

We always seem to want all of the latest bells and whistles included in our kits.......that is until we get a glimpse of the price tag, and then we scream and holler about how the model companies are screwing us. 😉

 

 

Steve

[stitchdup]

2 minutes ago, StevenGuthmiller said:

Isn’t it funny how innovation  continues to move forward with car models, but the modelers never seem to be able to be satisfied.

We always seem to want all of the latest bells and whistles included in our kits.......that is until we get a glimpse of the price tag, and then we scream and holler about how the model companies are screwing us. 😉

 

 

Steve

and after all the hollerin proceed to spend 3 times as much on aftermaket parts for it

[monza77]

13 minutes ago, StevenGuthmiller said:

Isn’t it funny how innovation  continues to move forward with car models, but the modelers never seem to be able to be satisfied.

We always seem to want all of the latest bells and whistles included in our kits.......that is until we get a glimpse of the price tag, and then we scream and holler about how the model companies are screwing us. 😉

 

 

Steve

I buy almost every kit that comes out by the domestic manufacturers and many made by foreign companies. Not having foil scripts never has never been nor will ever be a deal breaker, I just said I was envious. I don't see how innovation is continuing forward with car models . Innovation perhaps in the various processes in the manufacture of kits but at the end of the day when you open the box it is still the same as a kit made in the sixties. As I said I buy almost every kit that comes out and I am glad for the increased detail, variety of kits and the retro kits. As for added cost , I have 2 Monogram 24 scale El Caminos where almost half the decal sheet has foil decals (not scripts) and the price sticker is the same as other Monogram kits of the same era. I know the many pros and cons in this post but I'll leave that to everyone here.  

[StevenGuthmiller]

1 hour ago, monza77 said:

I don't see how innovation is continuing forward with car models .

All one has to do is look at the detail level of these two kits to understand how things have changed.

 

Granted, not every car produced in kit form gets a new tool, but it seems that more and more, people expect it, yet still want to pay 1971 prices.

I'm not picking on you, or any one else in particular, but it just seems to me that in this day, people are much more interested in quick results than they are in learning the processes required to do some of these things without expecting the after market or kit manufacturers to do it for them.

I guess at some times, I have a far different outlook on the hobby than others might.

I'm an old fart and I enjoy doing things old school.

I revel in finding solutions to some of the idiosyncrasies of the hobby through innovation and thought rather than just ordering what I don't want to address myself, or demanding that it be provided inside of the box.

 

I get it.

It would be nice if every script set for every car model, old and new, was offered through the after market.

But until somebody wants to take the leap forward to do that, you just have to take the time to learn how to address it the old fashioned way.

 

 

 

Steve

Edited August 7, 2023 by StevenGuthmiller

[monza77]

22 minutes ago, StevenGuthmiller said:

All one has to do is look at the detail level of these two kits to understand how things have changed.

 

Granted, not every car produced in kit form gets a new tool, but it seems that more and more, people expect it, yet still want to pay 1971 prices.

I'm not picking on you, or any one else in particular, but it just seems to me that in this day, people are much more interested in quick results than they are in learning the processes required to do some of these things without expecting the after market or kit manufacturers to do it for them.

I guess at some times, I have a far different outlook on the hobby than others might.

I'm an old fart and I enjoy doing things old school.

I revel in finding solutions to some of the idiosyncrasies of the hobby through innovation and thought rather than just ordering what I don't want to address myself, or demanding that it be provided inside of the box.

 

I get it.

It would be nice if every script set for every car model, old and new, was offered through the after market.

But until somebody wants to take the leap forward to do that, you just have to take the time to learn how to address it the old fashioned way.

 

 

 

Steve

No problem and I may have come off as too critical. I am an old fart also,70 years old. I am grateful for the vintage kits that are being reproduced as I missed out on them the first time around. I also appreciate  the many new tools with their increased parts count and improved detail. Foreign kits that are curbsides annoy me more than a lack of foil scripts in domestic kits, but I still buy many. I have been building since the 1964 Bonneville at least and can handle most processes. All that said, I wouldn't mind paying extra for more details like scripts but thats me. I just think it would be nice to have the scripts but it is way down on my wish list. But for every Revell Mustang there is a Revell Camaro, Fox Mustang and Barracuda but that's another story  Good dialoque on your part.

[Can-Con]

On 7/26/2023 at 2:51 PM, Ragtop Man said:

 

Engraved scripts are a legacy of the very first kits - adhesive foils were unknown at the time, and chrome silver flowed like water. 

And, Bob, the chrome silver paint on those old kits probably hasn't dried yet and is still flowing like water. 😁😉

[Dave Darby]

1 hour ago, StevenGuthmiller said:

Granted, not every car produced in kit form gets a new tool, but it seems that more and more, people expect it, yet still want to pay 1971 prices.

The level of detail plays only slightly into today's prices. The real culprit is the shrinking sales base. In 1971, there was hardly a store that didn't carry model car kits. Drug stores, grocery stores, department stores, you name it. The kit runs were larger, which reduced the cost per unit.  The prices jumped way up when Walmart stopped carrying kits. Today, it's a rare store that does carry kits, and even they dont have a full selection. It costs money to create new box art and decals, and fire those tools up for a production run. So even reissues have to carry that weight. The profit margin is slim, and today's model companies are nowhere near the size of Mattel. They are not getting rich, that's for sure. 

[StevenGuthmiller]

12 minutes ago, Dave Darby said:

The level of detail plays only slightly into today's prices. The real culprit is the shrinking sales base. In 1971, there was hardly a store that didn't carry model car kits. Drug stores, grocery stores, department stores, you name it. The kit runs were larger, which reduced the cost per unit.  The prices jumped way up when Walmart stopped carrying kits. Today, it's a rare store that does carry kits, and even they dont have a full selection. It costs money to create new box art and decals, and fire those tools up for a production run. So even reissues have to carry that weight. The profit margin is slim, and today's model companies are nowhere near the size of Mattel. They are not getting rich, that's for sure. 

I couldn’t agree more!!

 

 

Steve

[StevenGuthmiller]

1 hour ago, monza77 said:

No problem and I may have come off as too critical. I am an old fart also,70 years old. I am grateful for the vintage kits that are being reproduced as I missed out on them the first time around. I also appreciate  the many new tools with their increased parts count and improved detail. Foreign kits that are curbsides annoy me more than a lack of foil scripts in domestic kits, but I still buy many. I have been building since the 1964 Bonneville at least and can handle most processes. All that said, I wouldn't mind paying extra for more details like scripts but thats me. I just think it would be nice to have the scripts but it is way down on my wish list. But for every Revell Mustang there is a Revell Camaro, Fox Mustang and Barracuda but that's another story  Good dialoque on your part.

Just my personal observations.

 

 

Steve

[Bills72sj]

22 hours ago, Dave Darby said:

The level of detail plays only slightly into today's prices. The real culprit is the shrinking sales base. In 1971, there was hardly a store that didn't carry model car kits. Drug stores, grocery stores, department stores, you name it. The kit runs were larger, which reduced the cost per unit.  The prices jumped way up when Walmart stopped carrying kits. Today, it's a rare store that does carry kits, and even they dont have a full selection. It costs money to create new box art and decals, and fire those tools up for a production run. So even reissues have to carry that weight. The profit margin is slim, and today's model companies are nowhere near the size of Mattel. They are not getting rich, that's for sure. 

I am grateful there are still kits being produced. Imagine the hobby if the supply dried up completely in say 1999? We'd all be trading $100+ for the few kits that would still be floating around. Without the repops, my stash would be less than half of what it is.