Moebius Model King '65 Coronet Dave Strickler AWB - First detailed look inside the box...

[Radretireddad]

3 hours ago, Tim W. SoCal said:

Your statement got my gears turning, Brian! I'll build one of my AWB Coronet kits as a wild street machine with the injector stacks poking through the hood, modern mag wheels and a medium / dark metallic blue exterior. Thank you for the inspiration!...

Go for it!??

[tim boyd]

12 hours ago, niteowl7710 said:

I suspect the "issue" would be people more or less knew exactly what to expect out of the AWB kit as it's had a number of test shot features over the time since it's been announced.  The A990/Day 2 kits were a bit more of the unknown in terms of exact contents.

Good point here that I had not considered.

My thinking may have been affected by feedback I received from the manufacturers I interviewed while writing the "Collecting Drag Racing Model Kits" book in late 2019. 

There seemed to be a rough consensus that the hottest topics for new kits were mid-late century pickups (no surprise there) and 1960s/1970s drag racing themed kits.  But there was also a caution voiced by some that those drag racing kits tended to sell well when first introduced, but did not have the ongoing "staying sales power" of more mainstream themed kit topics - instead the demand dropped off rather quickly.  Broad generalizations here, so take this info accordingly....

Thanks all for your comments....TB 

[stavanzer]

45 minutes ago, tim boyd said:

There seemed to be a rough consensus that the hottest topics for new kits were mid-late century pickups (no surprise there) and 1960s/1970s drag racing themed kits.  But there was also a caution voiced by some that those drag racing kits tended to sell well when first introduced, but did not have the ongoing "staying sales power" of more mainstream themed kit topics - instead the demand dropped off rather quickly.  Broad generalizations here, so take this info accordingly....

I believe that is sound reasoning. Speaking only for myself, while I plan on getting all three kits, I cannot see myself ever wanting or needing to have more than one AWB car. The Sedans, however, I can see me wanting a couple of each. Especially if Moebius brings out a Four Door Police Version. Failing that, I'll be looking for the 3D printed four door that will eventually show up in the next few months. So, the timeline of Sales applies, at least to me.

[jjsipes]

I plan on buying multiple of each kit. I have decals for just about all the original AWB cars and plan on building them. Thank you, Moebius, for bringing these kits out. Working on a couple 65 Plymouths right now and they are such great kits.

[Ragtop Man]

On 9/9/2024 at 11:43 AM, GMP440 said:

  I think in general that the overall appeal to the masses of the awb Coronet kit and other awb kits are a lot less than the mainstreamer kits ie; 63 Nova wagon, 65 Coronet stock sedan kits etc.  I would say the appeal of the race only and awb kits of whatever car subject it is would be for  the drag car builders which is a very small niche.  More builders would rather have a stock street car over non stock race version of that subject.   This seems to be illustrated well by Moebius with their low production number of drag car subjects.  Someone mentioned only 6000 of the awb 65 Coronet kits produced.  I would gather Moebius did this knowing a small number of builders would buy the kit.    

Beg to differ, here - the drag / gasser stuff seems to go very fast at the local hobby centers. The drag guys are at heart, racers, and they are busting cellophane as fast as they can peel it when something new comes along. Not only static modelers, but the hardbody stock slot race guys are over the moon on these, too. Doubting you will see stacks of these for $8.99 at the clearance outlets.  Hats off to Moby on these, looking forward to grabbing a few and flinging some glue.

[niteowl7710]

20 minutes ago, Ragtop Man said:

Beg to differ, here - the drag / gasser stuff seems to go very fast at the local hobby centers. The drag guys are at heart, racers, and they are busting cellophane as fast as they can peel it when something new comes along. Not only static modelers, but the hardbody stock slot race guys are over the moon on these, too. Doubting you will see stacks of these for $8.99 at the clearance outlets.  Hats off to Moby on these, looking forward to grabbing a few and flinging some glue.

Well of course it would sell especially well to it's niche market. It's how broad a sales base does any kit have into the broader market. Almost everyone tinkering with plastic will buy a good Hot Rod kit, but I'm not sure an AWB car has in-roads with the Hot Rod Guys, the Factory Muscle Car Guys, etc.

You'd also never see Moebius on clearance because they don't supply the type of stores (Wal*Mart & Hobby Lobby) that would wholesale their goods to get rid of them.

[Justin Porter]

I think, to a degree, Moebius is missing a trick by not marketing the heck out of having tooled truly a class-leading vintage drag Hemi in this kit. An accurate classic drag car is certainly a good quality thing to have, but not trumpeting that vintage drag racers have such a trove of parts in this box like the MUCH more complete Hilborn setup with pump seems like taking a risk on missing out on kitbasher sales. 

[GMP440]

On 9/10/2024 at 12:25 PM, Ragtop Man said:

Beg to differ, here - the drag / gasser stuff seems to go very fast at the local hobby centers. The drag guys are at heart, racers, and they are busting cellophane as fast as they can peel it when something new comes along. Not only static modelers, but the hardbody stock slot race guys are over the moon on these, too. Doubting you will see stacks of these for $8.99 at the clearance outlets.  Hats off to Moby on these, looking forward to grabbing a few and flinging some glue.

  Maybe in your market you have a large group of hardcore drag/gasser builders.  In my post I only  was just speaking of a builder doing a shelf build and not building it as a slotcar setup.  Slot car building and racing is another market.  Don't get me wrong,  I love the awb kits.  I have 3 Moebius awb Coronet kits coming my way.    I go to different model car contest events throughout the year; you just don't see drag/gasser cars in huge quantities in comparison to street stock or mainstreamer models.

[stavanzer]

And......

HPI Guy has the '65 Cornet AWB kit.

 

[Dave Metzner]

Some research material for the AWB Dodge was a series of photos with measurements of an absolutely correct Red AWB clone with the tall injector stacks  correct interior etc.

With street legal exhaust system and big fat street legal rear tires.

Thanks to our good friend John Mueller

 

[ncbuckeye67]

I just don't like the look of any AWB car (they just look weird to me). I'm not a fan of a gasser either. Love a Pro-Mod/ Pro street though.

[papajohn97]

On 9/9/2024 at 8:17 PM, Robberbaron said:

Having said that, I suspect that the people interested in the AWB kit are more likely to buy multiple quantities of it, to try to replicate several (or even all) of the original 1:1 drag cars.

I resemble that comment! ? In addition to the Strickler box art car, I have some nice decals of and look forward to doing Landy’s, Harrop’s and Gary Dyer’s AWB cars (Dyer’s blue supercharged Mr. Norm’s Grand-Spaulding will be a particularly fun one to kit bash and paint). A minor disappointment that these new Dodge kits are all sticks but no big sweat, just need to order some more resin TorqueFlite 727’s to graft onto the blocks. Wonder who’s going to be the first to post a Landy car build with the historically accurate rear body sag!

It’s been a while since I’ve built any door slammers, been distracted by alternative scale model shiny objects lately (Japanese aircraft carriers and British AFV’s!), time to order a stack of these very cool ‘65 Dodges. Thank you Tim for posting the link to these excellent kit photos and thank you thank you thank you Dave M & team from Moebius for your tenacious hard work in producing such fabulous kits!

[Tim W. SoCal]

  First off, I applaud Moebius for bringing these kits to market and I am going to thoroughly delight in building multiples of each kit. One of the aspects of our hobby that I REALLY enjoy is researching the cars I intend to build model replicas of. The Moebius '65 Dodge A990 kit comes with a manual transmission molded onto the engine. In my research of the '65 Dodge Coronet A990, I cannot find one 1:1 car with a 4-speed manual transmission. They are all showing the Hemi-Torqueflite with a reverse pattern manual valve body, park delete and a column shift. In my research, I have learned that 101 Dodge A990s and 102 Plymouth A990s were built. Of the Plymouths, 90 were equipped with the Hemi-Torqueflite and 12 were built with the New Process A833 4-speed manual trans. Try as I may, I cannot find production info for the Dodge A990s anywhere online. Were all 101 Dodges automatic trans cars? Were some of the A833 cars that may have been built sacrificed to build the AWB cars? To build an accurate replica, should I remove the manual transmission and glue on an aftermarket 727 Torqueflite? (the supplied steering column DOES include a column shifter) Also, what colors were the Dodges available in? I know all of the interiors were the same metallic tan color with matching carpet. Also, this is not meant as criticism but to satisfy my curiosity, the chrome trees on both the A990 and Coronet Sedan kits have valve covers for both the Hemi and Wedge Head engines. The Coronet Sedan kit has both single 4 barrel and cross ram dual quad intake manifolds. (I believe the cross ram will fit BOTH the Hemi and Wedge head engines) On the engine parts trees, the A990 kit has Hemi heads, and in the same location in the castings, the Coronet Sedan kit has corresponding Wedge heads. If all the other engine parts are included, why not just cast both sets of heads also?

   BTW, in my imagination, I see the Little Old Lady From Pasadena rowin' a 4-speed, not boppin' a column shifter!

Edited September 16, 2024 by Tim W. SoCal

[Mark]

11 hours ago, Tim W. SoCal said:

On the engine parts trees, the A990 kit has Hemi heads, and in the same location in the castings, the Coronet Sedan kit has corresponding Wedge heads. If all the other engine parts are included, why not just cast both sets of heads also?

  

You answered your own question.  When different parts are in the same location on a particular parts tree in two versions of a kit, that means that to include both parts the manufacturer would have to run one set of parts, switch out the tooling insert, then run the same set of parts again.  It has been done in the past, but it costs a lot to do that. 

The wedge engine parts are in the quasi-stock sedan kit in order to differentiate it from the two "factory" drag offerings.  Chrysler was concentrating on the Hemi in racing from '65 forward, development stopped on the wedge during '64.

The A990 Dodges were built with both four-speed and automatic transmissions.  Some probably got switched from one to the other (maybe even back and forth) by the teams that got the cars, depending on whether or not their driver was good with a stick.

Moebius is still relatively new to car kits, so they've probably still got some growing pains in this area.  With more experience in car kits, there would probably be a lot fewer Plymouth specific parts included in the Dodge kits, and that might have left room for other parts to be included.  I might have liked to see both automatic and stick transmissions, an 8-3/4" rear axle in addition to the Dana 60, and maybe an optional A-100 front axle setup.  But for being relatively new to doing car kits, they're doing some pretty specialized subject matter and executing it quite well.  

[Luc Janssens]

20 minutes ago, Mark said:

Moebius is still relatively new to car kits, so they've probably still got some growing pains in this area.  With more experience in car kits, there would probably be a lot fewer Plymouth specific parts included in the Dodge kits, and that might have left room for other parts to be included.  

What Mark says....If both the Plymouth and Dodge kits were designed simultaneously, common parts would've been grouped together and specific to model and version on separate trees.

Edited September 16, 2024 by Luc Janssens

[Tim W. SoCal]

31 minutes ago, Mark said:

When different parts are in the same location on a particular parts tree in two versions of a kit, that means that to include both parts the manufacturer would have to run one set of parts, switch out the tooling insert, then run the same set of parts again.  It has been done in the past, but it costs a lot to do that. 

Actually, it looks like they ran one set of parts for the A990 with the Hemi heads, then changed out the tooling to run another set of parts for the Sedan. That is the basis of my question, why did they not just design and fabricate one mold with both sets of heads instead of changing the tooling for each model.

[1972coronet]

48 minutes ago, Mark said:

The A990 Dodges were built with both four-speed and automatic transmissions.  Some probably got switched from one to the other (maybe even back and forth) by the teams that got the cars, depending on whether or not their driver was good with a stick.

Landy's A/FX '65 was originally a 4-speed. Apparently the trans - or the clutch ? - blew up on its maiden voyage, so he swapped to a Torqueflite -- complete with the 1964 pushbutton setup.

(side note: the 1965 Torqueflite was a one-year-only transmission ; first year the pushbuttons were dropped, yet cable mechanism was the same; and no more rear oil pump (which enabled push-starting, dating to the A-466 Powerflite and A-488 Torquefite, back when they were cast iron). )

[Tim W. SoCal]

This thread SHOULD be in Tim Boyd's

"Mobius Models' new 1965 Dodge Coronet Two Door Sedan A990 and "Street Sleeper" - first look inside these boxes..."

thread.II don't know how I added it to THIS thread...

[Tim W. SoCal]

This is specifically the parts tree I am referring to. Why not include both  Hemi- and Wedge- Heads on this tree? Wouldn't that not 0e less expensive than changing tools for each kit?

Edited September 17, 2024 by Tim W. SoCal

[niteowl7710]

12 hours ago, Tim W. SoCal said:

This is specifically the parts tree I am referring to. Why not include both  Hemi- and Wedge- Heads on this tree? Wouldn't that not 0e less expensive than changing tools for each kit?

Doesn't all of this stem from the fact these kits are basicly re-skinned Plymouths? They have the Dodge specific parts, but are otherwise carry overs of the original Plymouth kits - as seen by the amount of those parts still floating around. Those kits were originally the regular drag kits and then were made into AWB kits. 

[Mark]

If all of the versions aren't planned at one time, then adding a new version leads to things like: parts not being included that some buyers would have wanted, and parts being included that aren't needed.

[niteowl7710]

20 hours ago, Mark said:

If all of the versions aren't planned at one time, then adding a new version leads to things like: parts not being included that some buyers would have wanted, and parts being included that aren't needed.

Well the Plymouths were tooled up 3 years before Moebius was sold to Pegasus, so you're talking about two different ownerships and their individual plans for the tooling.

[Sport Suburban]

It's interesting to note that the 65 Golden Commando's AFX, 65 Hemi Super Stock Melrose Missile, and 65 Plymouth Satellite (stock version) are all automatic trans. The 65 A990 Hemi Super Stock Belvedere is the only manual trans of the kits I have. The only one I don't have is the stock 65 Belvedere II. So, I am curious about that one but didn't buy it. But all three 65 Dodges Coronets are manuals. I just got them as well.

[carnut]

I’m planning on picking up the altered wheelbase Dodge because I want to use that engine and other parts in a couple of projects. It looks nicely done.

[papajohn97]

On 9/18/2024 at 7:46 PM, Sport Suburban said:

But all three 65 Dodges Coronets are manuals. I just got them as well.

I predict we might soon encounter a shortage of 1/25 scale resin 727 Torqueflite’s  in the marketplace with the release of this Moebius AWB Dodge! Better get your parts orders into SpeedCityResins ASAP! The last ones I bought from a vendor on eBay a few years ago to use on the Moebius Plymouth A990 sedan kits (that came with a manual) are no longer available.

Edited September 21, 2024 by papajohn97