Pontiac gone

[BigGary]

The news today says that GM has decided to send Pontiac the way of Oldsmobile, into history, along with 21,000 workers, several factories, and 1,000+ dealerships. It is all part of restructuring to stave off bankruptcy and get government money.

That means that the end has definately come for GTO, The Judge, and Solstice, as well as 442, Cuda, GTX, Road Runner, etc.

It will be up to modelers to recreate these missing icons of automotive history. They are the victims of the current economy, much as Pierce Arrow, Duryea, Hupmobile, Cord, and many others were the victims of the Great Depression that began in 1929.

Gary

[Chuck Most]

Yeah, that sucks! It's been at least 30 years since Pontiac built anything interesting (the late GTO and the new Solstice and G8 being possible exceptions), but few makes have had as many cool products in the past. I'm actually surpised it's not Buick getting the axe! Hey- I'm a Ford man, but I'm still steamed about the whole Oldsmobile deal. (My first "old" car was a '66 Cutlass, and it wasn't the last Olds I'll ever own, I'm sure.)

To all the Pontiac factory, dealer, and corporate employees... we're here for ya! Hopefully they've got some sort of plan in mind for what to do with you! I just hope this isn't a sign of things to come...

[Harry P.]

I guess you guys both missed the "Newsflash: GM to kill Pontiac" post from a few says ago...

[FujimiLover]

I guess you guys both missed the "Newsflash: GM to kill Pontiac" post from a few says ago...

I had assumed that was in question, and this thread is final answer? I guess "The new generation of Olds" didn't last long did it? Back to your father's Oldsmobile!

[Chuck Most]

I guess you guys both missed the "Newsflash: GM to kill Pontiac" post from a few says ago...

Harry...dude... I was SLEEPING! Then again, I was sleeping when I stumbled across THIS post. Huh. Interesting.

[Harold]

I saw Fritz Henderson on channel 12 this morning doing a press conference. This guy strikes me as the epitome of the 'Peter Principle', someone who got promoted one step above his level of competence. All he did was speak in business cliches ("Going forward, we must synergize our paradigms...). While not a direct quote, his whole spiel was at that level. Also, he was the guy in charge at Delphi, and we know what's become of them. Henderson is not a CEO as much as he is an undertaker. He's already made the decision to embalm Pontiac and Saturn (why not fold the Saturn brand into Pontiac?). What they need to get rid of are Hummer (please) and GMC. As John Phillips noted in Car and Driver a few years back, "If GMC is professional grade, does that make an equivalent Chevy truck 'Amateur Grade?" Trivia- GMC actually stands for Gabrowski Motor Coach. They were a truck maker in Hamtramck who were snapped up by Billy Durant in 1904.

[gasman]

here's a top 10 cars list I actually agree with, Autoblogs top 10 greatest pontiacs

I think Pontiac truly died in the 90's, with the Aztec, the Sunfire. FWD Bonnevilles, and the Transport (later Montana). the later FWD Grand Prix where decent cars. the 04-06 GTO was awesome even though nobody bought it. The FWD Grand Am started out good but went too garbage the longer the car went along. The G8 is good, this one might hang around becouse Opel might take over Saturn's dealer network. it'll just be called the Opel VXR

[forthlin]

What a shame! I've owned quite a few Pontiacs through the years. 65 GTO conv, '67 Grand Prix conv., '62 & '63 Bonneville convs, '73 Grand Am & even a '60 Catalina.

[Peter Lombardo]

here's a top 10 cars list I actually agree with, Autoblogs top 10 greatest pontiacs

I think Pontiac truly died in the 90's, with the Aztec, the Sunfire. FWD Bonnevilles, and the Transport (later Montana). the later FWD Grand Prix where decent cars. the 04-06 GTO was awesome even though nobody bought it. The FWD Grand Am started out good but went too garbage the longer the car went along. The G8 is good, this one might hang around becouse Opel might take over Saturn's dealer network. it'll just be called the Opel VXR

I think Pontiac died in the early 1970's....after that, they were just one of the GM "glitter twins" where Pontiac, Buick, Chevy and Olds all had a common vehicle in size and content with a different name and price point. When Pontiac lost it’s individuality it was over for them. Shortly after that was the beginning of the end for Oldsmobile....Right after the Cutlass went from the "Penthouse" to the "Outhouse" when they could not find the winning formula after the RWD Cutlass moved on to FWD. What a shame, if it were not for the Chinese love affair with Buick, I am sure they would be going down hand-in-hand with Pontiac. The only way Buick can survive here is with GMC joined at the hip with Buick the way Chevy Trucks are to Chevy. Cadillac is only living on because GM needs a "Luxury" brand for their own well being...certainly not because of their sales record.

[Harry P.]

I'm not sure exactly when the Pontiac brand "jumped the shark", but a definite low point was when the geniuses that run GM decided to call an Australian Holden a "GTO"... and then slapped a $40,000 price tag on it, to boot.

Now, I'm sure a Holden is a fine car and all... but what were the suits thinking when they decided they could pass off a Holden as a beloved all-American icon? And at a price the average Joe could never afford, either? Well, the sales numbers spoke loud and clear on that one.

Just one example of the less than stellar corporate decision-making that GM has become infamous for lately.

BTW... hey, Chuck... glad to see you're awake now!

[Jantrix]

One wonders if Mercury be headed towards this treatment as well. Lets face it, Mercury has been in a coma for about 20 years.

[4BKT VET]

Yeah, that sucks! It's been at least 30 years since Pontiac built anything interesting (the late GTO and the new Solstice and G8 being possible exceptions)...

Well, for one, The 2004-2006 GTO is a re-badged Holden Monaro and the G8 is a Holden Commador, both GM from down under. Same place the Camaro is going to be built. So, that leaves the Solstice.

I suspect that GM will flee N. America once they get more money from US (you and me) for their Brazill plant, just like the last batch of money. I have been primarily a GM fan, but as of the past couple of decades they have done only a couple of things correctly, TRUCKS and HOT RODS (Vette, GTO, G8). I really don't think they know how to build anything else. Even the Caddies aren't that great anymore, just a couple V series and the XLR (more HOT ROD's).

In addition to my '67 Malibu and 2005 GTO, I own a 2004 Lexus IS300. That's a great car that might get an LS2 motor conversion once I flee California.

So, not heart broken about GM, devastated over the employee's that have worked for them less than 10 years.

[Raul_Perez]

I came really close to buying a G8 a couple of weeks ago, but I just couldn't bring myself to shell out $30K for a car that only came with black leather or black cloth interior when I really wanted tan leather. And no, I didn't want to pay even more money to have someone convert it...

If Pontiac really wanted the G8 to help resurrect the brand like the dealer had told me, they should have given serious consideration to offering a broader selection of interior colors to go along with their broad selection of exterior colors, options and a good selection of engine sizes. Oh well, I guess maybe in 2010 it'll get rebranded as the Chevy III.

Later,

[sak]

Oh well, I guess maybe in 2010 it'll get rebranded as the Chevy III.

Chevy III is too sixties. They will call it the chevy v3.0

[roadhawg]

I saw Fritz Henderson on channel 12 this morning doing a press conference. This guy strikes me as the epitome of the 'Peter Principle', someone who got promoted one step above his level of competence. All he did was speak in business cliches ("Going forward, we must synergize our paradigms...). While not a direct quote, his whole spiel was at that level. Also, he was the guy in charge at Delphi, and we know what's become of them.

This is what happens when you replace "car guys" like they USED to have (the Harley Earls, the John Deloreans, etc...) with college degrees. Is it just my own observation, or are all these college educated CEOs complete dumba**es?

What they need to get rid of are Hummer (please) and GMC. As John Phillips noted in Car and Driver a few years back, "If GMC is professional grade, does that make an equivalent Chevy truck 'Amateur Grade?" Trivia- GMC actually stands for Gabrowski Motor Coach. They were a truck maker in Hamtramck who were snapped up by Billy Durant in 1904.

The myth is than when GM bought Gabrowski Motor Coach, Max Gabrowski somehow snuck it in the contract that as long as GM sold trucks, they would have to include the GMC line.....like I said, thats the myth. Is it TRUE? Hmmmmmm.....

And they CAN'T get rid of Hummer....if they DID, what would the military spend $300,000 tax dollars apiece on?

[James Flowers]

I think down fall of GM started when they took the motors away from each brand and went to Chevy only motors. There seemed to be a sense of pride in each motor for the brand it was in. You no longer had a car that was different from the rest. The bodies were the same with just some minor changes. Nothing to say I have a Pontiac, Oldsmobile, Buick Or Caddy.

[MrObsessive]

I think down fall of GM started when they took the motors away from each brand and went to Chevy only motors.

I totally agree there..........each engine had it's own "signature" or sound to the trained ear.

As well did Ford and Mopar.

Of course it came down to the almighty dollar--------but the end of discontinued makes isn't over yet! There will be more dominoes to fall before this is all over I'm afraid.

[Seattle Mike]

The Camaro is being built in Canada, as it has for a long time. The platform it's being built on is a version of the Holden, and so it spent a lot of development time in Australia.

We had been considering getting rid of our 97 Firebird convertible, but maybe now we should hang on to it. It's sad to see Pontiac disappear, but like so many others have pointed out, their product line has been pretty unexciting for a long time.

[Harry P.]

the end of discontinued makes isn't over yet! There will be more dominoes to fall before this is all over I'm afraid.

And that's as it should be. GM offers (offered?) way too many different makes/models, and too many similar/redundant lines. Add up all the various makes and all the different models of each make, and you see that GM had probably hundreds of different models. That's insane.

[B_rad88]

hey i just read that they will still make the solstice til 2012. so thats it. its done. is gm going cut holden? opel? or any of the european gm makes?

[Joe Handley]

This is what happens when you replace "car guys" like they USED to have (the Harley Earls, the John Deloreans, etc...) with college degrees. Is it just my own observation, or are all these college educated CEOs complete dumba**es?

I've been thinking the same about Chrysler since Dahlmer sold them off. They, under Dahlmers watch, killed the Neon and replaced it with the Caliber that really isn't all that great of a replacement for that or the PT Cruiser. Now they're talking about Chrysler not having an efficent car and needing to join with Fiat, Nissan, "any John that'll do", ect to get a fuel efficent car...why not just rebody that fugly Caliber/Compass/Patriot with a more aero body for efficency......

The myth is than when GM bought Gabrowski Motor Coach, Max Gabrowski somehow snuck it in the contract that as long as GM sold trucks, they would have to include the GMC line.....like I said, thats the myth. Is it TRUE? Hmmmmmm.....

And they CAN'T get rid of Hummer....if they DID, what would the military spend $300,000 tax dollars apiece on?

That would be pretty dang funny if he did do that, too bad they'd loose cutomers to Ford or Dodge if they killed one of the two off...I've seriously seen people say that they would not buy a Chevy/GMC truck if GM kills off GMC/Chevy...... I've seen that written on more than one occasion and can't figure out why since they're nearly the same dang thing!

AM General still makes the Humvee for military use.......the other two Hummers are just beefed up and rebodied Tahoes and Colorados.

[Merkur XR4Ti]

And that's as it should be. GM offers (offered?) way too many different makes/models, and too many similar/redundant lines. Add up all the various makes and all the different models of each make, and you see that GM had probably hundreds of different models. That's insane.

Exactly. And that's why I'm not sad Pontiac got the axe. They didn't sell anything that wasn't a rebadge of another car.

Solstice = Sky

G3 = Aveo

G5 = Cobalt

G6 = Malibu = Aura

Vibe = Matrix

Torrent = Equinox

G8 = Aussie Holden import they were selling at a loss.

What, exactly, was the point of Pontiac if they were simply selling Chevies and Saturns with new noses and orange instruments?

GM is up a certain creek without a certain paddle. Saturn, Hummer, and Saab are next on the chopping block. And Opel may be sold off.

[CAL]

Exactly. And that's why I'm not sad Pontiac got the axe. They didn't sell anything that wasn't a rebadge of another car.

Solstice = Sky

G3 = Aveo

G5 = Cobalt

G6 = Malibu = Aura

Vibe = Matrix

Torrent = Equinox

G8 = Aussie Holden import they were selling at a loss.

What, exactly, was the point of Pontiac if they were simply selling Chevies and Saturns with new noses and orange instruments?

GM is up a certain creek without a certain paddle. Saturn, Hummer, and Saab are next on the chopping block. And Opel may be sold off.

Well if they don't find buyers for Saturn and Saab they will get the axe next, however GM is more hopefull someone will buy them.

And there is ZERO reason to keep Hummer around.

[BigGary]

Actually I think the Sky is a rebadged solstice. If I remember right the Solstice came out first. that said, the Sky is a better looking car.\

Gary

[Chuck Most]

I'm not sure exactly when the Pontiac brand "jumped the shark", but a definite low point was when the geniuses that run GM decided to call an Australian Holden a "GTO"... and then slapped a $40,000 price tag on it, to boot.

BTW... hey, Chuck... glad to see you're awake now!

Still not up yet, Harry!

The last GTO was a gorgeous car... it was just too heavy, a bit underpowered ('04 models, anyway), and looked too much like a Grand Prix.

This will sound nuts... but I think the "new" GTO would've sold better if they'd done a 4-door model!

Hear me out- Pontiac was targeting this car at the BMW M-series, and most of those are more-door. I don't think a "muscle car" automatically means 2-doors. It might have worked. (And let's not delve too deeply into the new Charger... I could care less it's a sedan- I don't like it because it's an ugly car! I'm sorry, but it looks like a Dakota Quad Cab that got stepped on!) The performance car landscape has changed dramatically since the original Goat, the old rules don't always apply.

Okay... MODEL CAR related rant... I guess we'll never see that 1/25 Solstice GXP or G8 sedan/sport pickup kit now, will we? Maybe GMC will get the G8 sport truck (it was originally planned to be a GMC, anyway).

I've been itching to do a Tin Indian model the last few days. Who else?