Harold Posted November 16, 2009 Author Share Posted November 16, 2009 The ZIL was even more Packard than the Chaika (The Chaika looks like the love child of a Packard and a Checker to me). The ZIL is what the commie bigshots used as a limo for many years. Here's a couple of pics: There's been debate over the years about whether or not they actually used the old Packard tooling. I wrote a letter to CA several years ago and in the next issue the response was that they didn't. However, there's enough similarities for me to doubt that response. But in a world full of Ladas, Volgas and Trabants, the old saying is still true- all comrades are equal- some are just more equal than others . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Handley Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 Actually, the Predictor was supposed to be a forecast of the '57's, but although investors were impressed with their plans, they looked at Packard's partner, Studebaker, as a giant, money losing millstone (not far off the mark). They built one prototype, Black Bess. Richard Teague said it looked "like it had been built with a ball- peen hammer and a cold soldering iron". this is a 1/10 scale styling model Black Bess Here's how the '57 would have looked on the Lincoln body (Bill Schmidt had left Lincoln to become head of Packard styling in '55). This was a last ditch effort to field a Packard for '57, but the deal fell through. After entering into a management contract with Curtiss- Wright in '56, the Packard facilities in Detroit and the engine plant in Utica, Michigan were sold off. Packard lived the next two years as barely disguised Studes. Is it me, or do those look ALOT like the Edsel? Is it me, or do those look alot lik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold Posted November 18, 2009 Author Share Posted November 18, 2009 Is it me, or do those look ALOT like the Edsel? Is it me, or do those look alot lik Well, Robin Jones went from Ford to Packard, and then went back to Ford just in time to be made chief stylist at the "E-car" division. It's the same when Elwood Engel went to Chrysler in '61 and had to restyle their entire line overnight. Look at the La Galaxie show car from '58 and the Chrysler Turbine, or the '61 Lincoln and the '64 Imperial. You just go with what you know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Most Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 Well, Robin Jones went from Ford to Packard, and then went back to Ford just in time to be made chief stylist at the "E-car" division. It's the same when Elwood Engel went to Chrysler in '61 and had to restyle their entire line overnight. Look at the La Galaxie show car from '58 and the Chrysler Turbine, or the '61 Lincoln and the '64 Imperial. You just go with what you know. Maybe that's why the front of a '63/'64 Dodge looks an awful lot like the back end of a '61 Galaxie... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigJoe23 Posted February 7, 2010 Share Posted February 7, 2010 Any update on the Packard Predictor? I've been watching, very cool car! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Anderson Posted February 7, 2010 Share Posted February 7, 2010 Harold- did you know that the Predictor was supposed to have been the origin for the all-new '59 Packards that never were? They'd planned to buy the old '57 Lincoln tooling from Ford to use as the basis, and work some of the Predictor's cues into it, but that deal fell though. Oddly, though, the old Packard body tooling lived on in Russia for many years. I think it was called the Zil or Zaff or something all warm and Commie like that! <img src="http://www.modelcarsmag.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="laugh.gif" /> 'Nudder fun fact: In some early literature, this car was identified as the "Projector". Now I'll just shut my trap and let you get back to work! Long Live Packard! (Metaphorically...) Chuck, Very much urban legend, I'm afraid! The legends about the Soviets using obsolete Packard body tooling go all the way back to WW-II, when ZIS produced a few gigantic limousines for Marshal Stalin that looked so very much like the discontinued 1940 Packard 180 series sedan limousines. During the Korean Conflict, a couple of those were captured and sent back to this country--and they resemble Packards, but that is all--there is absolutely no comparison in proportions or dimensions, not even contours--just the "look". Packard's body dies didn't go overseas, unless as melted down for artillery or naval shell casings. I've seen ZIL's and Chaikas with that 1955-56 Packardesque styling, and they only loosely resemble any Packard--frankly, they more resemble a Checker Marathon customized to look like a Packard. Art Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Most Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 I've seen ZIL's and Chaikas with that 1955-56 Packardesque styling, and they only loosely resemble any Packard--frankly, they more resemble a Checker Marathon customized to look like a Packard. Art Art... I think you just gave my my next idea for a model! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjordan2 Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 (edited) Wow, you're off to an awesome start. It also looks like a predictor of the 1958 Lincoln Continental Mark III's crazy roof. When you get this one finished, how about the '55 Lincoln Indianapolis by Boano? http://www.conceptcarz.com/vehicle/z13277/Lincoln-Indianapolis-Exclusive-Study.aspx Edited February 22, 2010 by sjordan2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leeedy Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 Hello... this is an interesting topic, so I had to join and make a post. I am familiar with the real Packard Predictor concept car of 1956 and knew this car from when it was new. It has always been one of MY favorites as well. Additionally, a good friend made the original large scale model upon which the actual car was built at Ghia in Italy. I wrote the first complete history of this car for The Packard Cormorant Magazine ( Summer 2008 issue which is still available by mail order) which is the official magazine publication of The Packard Club (www.Packard Club.org ). The article is crammed with history never told and lots of photos. I even saved and converted an original snippet of film from the actual first uncrating of the car at the Packard plant in 1956 (you can also see this on the Packard Club web site). Now, being an old model builder myself (and winner of many car contests back in the 1960s- some of my cars were even in magazines then), I would like to suggest a far better car/kit to base a Predictor replica on: AMT's 1958-1960 Continental. Here you a nearly accurate roof, similar dimensions (the T-bird was wayyyy smaller), similar windshield, much more accurate proportions. AND you can convert some pieces from other kits- if you could find them all today. The nose shape is easily adapted from both 1963-65 Corvette (if you read my history article, you'll know exactly why)... and combine that with some Edsel pieces. I would use 1957 Chevy decklid for the rear. A whole lot less to have to create and more a process of modification rather than creation. By the way, there were three known large-scale models (one of which was the very large original and two slightly smaller others made afterward). I have photos of all. RE: (and it seems this ought to be a totally separate topic from Predictor) The Russian ZIL (actually ZIL-111, not just ZIL) and Chaika have about the same relationship to each other as the actual Packard and Clipper of 1956, but no, the ZIL-111 and Chaika were not made from Packard tooling... they are just imitations. THis may not be known today, but the Russians LOVED Packards and the Czar owned a few over the years. The ZIL-111 actually morphs a bunch of American car items into one car. A 1956 Chrysler windshield, 1957 Ford side trim, 1956 Ford bumper exhausts (REAL Packard bumper exhausts were much bigger and very round. RE: The hand-built 1957 prototype test mule, "Black Bess"... the comments my late friend Dick Teague made are being taken totally out of context here. And that car may very well have been hammered out with the help of a actual ball-peen hammer for all I know. It was never intended to be anything but a rough-hewn test mule and having worked with such test prototype cars all my life, I can tell you that they are rarely very aesthetically pleasing- simply because they are not meant to be. However, it is a shame that Black Bess was cut up and destroyed, crude as she may have been. By the way... I thought you might like to see what a large-scale unbuilt Predictor model looks like that has been sitting stored for many years... Leon Dixon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisBcritter Posted September 3, 2013 Share Posted September 3, 2013 Sorry, I know it's an old thread, but it popped up when I was searching for something else. Any update on this one? Hemmings Classic Cars has an article in their August '13 issue about a builder who has made a clone of Black Bess; haven't read it but a photo I saw several years ago showed the body being built up out of '58 Chevy and Edsel bits. I took a stab once at making a '58 Packard Four Hundred coupe out of an otherwise unsavable '60 Lincoln, but it was melted too much to fix (was from a junkyard diorama I got from H. B. Halicki's estate sale, of all places). I would have used a '57-59 Dodge rear bumper and for the hood bulge/nose I'd have used a narrowed Duesenberg hood and grille shell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScrappyJ Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 Impressive body work. Can't wait to see more!!! Ditto. Can't wait to see more! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie8575 Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 I haven't seen Harold around in quite some time; I hope all is well with him. I'd love to see how this turned out. What a cool model. Charlie Larkin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Handley Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 Didn't he have a huge fire that destroyed hit home with this and many more models in it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modelbuilder Mark Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 Not sure about his life status, but he has not been logged in here since April this year it looks like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Most Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 Didn't he have a huge fire that destroyed hit home with this and many more models in it? Unfortunately, yes. I was just at Dean's Hobby Stop today and Dean was wondering where he's been as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Handley Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 Unfortunately, yes. I was just at Dean's Hobby Stop today and Dean was wondering where he's been as well. That don't sound so good, hope he's ok! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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