3D printers.....

[roadhawg]

http://www.dimensionprinting.com/3d-printers/3d-printing-uprint-video.aspx

[astroracer]

No, it won't. Most resin cast pieces are made from masters that are fabricated by hand. 3D printing requires a 3D model to be created in a CAD program. Most resin casters do not have this ability.

Mark

[roadhawg]

... Most resin casters do not have this ability.

Mark

Exactly. Someone who knows how to use one of these could put most resin casters out of business. Instead of having to create a master by hand, making a mold which doesn't last long, and casting each piece, someone that knows how to use this thing could design a model on a computer and "print out" a couple hundred thousand copies, each one exactly like the one before it.

[astroracer]

Exactly. Someone who knows how to use one of these could put most resin casters out of business. Instead of having to create a master by hand, making a mold which doesn't last long, and casting each piece, someone that knows how to use this thing could design a model on a computer and "print out" a couple hundred thousand copies, each one exactly like the one before it.

That's not going to happen either. Creating the models is not that difficult but integrating everything into a buildable "kit" is. All I see the 3D Rapid prototyping machines doing is increasing the amount of available resin cast parts.

I am in the process of modeling some intricate parts to be rapid prototyped. We will not run production with the 3D machine though, to expensive. We will create two part rubber molds and cast them.

The neat part is, once the 3D model is complete it is fully scaleable. I can create a full size 1:1 3D model and then scale it down to 1/25th, or 1/12th or 1/8th if that is what is needed...

Mark

[bobss396]

I agree, too time consuming and expensive to do any production work, but agree it would be good for master creation. We got a bigger commercial one at work last week, just about any 3D cad model can be saved in a format to make a part. I had heard of a smaller one for like $5k that was as big as a old fashioned toaster, obviously not out on the market as of yet.

Bob

[Tommy Kortman]

I remember seeing the first generation versions work a few years ago. From what i remember, the "finished" piece was OK but it would still need work before being able to cast it. At that time you could clearly see the stratification lines in the piece. Plus, at that time the resin was very brittle and would break extremely easily.I have to imagine that the quality has gotten better.

[Joe Handley]

I saw some of the "models" Traxxas had of their 1/16 scale E-Revo and Slash 4x4's a couple years ago and they were obviously made the same way and would could see all of those lines in them too. Looked like it would have taken a ton of finish sanding to make them passible to our standards prior to molding them for resin casting.

[crazyjim]

Isn't this 3D the stuff that TRD is producing? I don't know if RD or RT whatever, is the same thing.

[Art Anderson]

Until rapid prototyping by CAD reaches the point of being truly "plug and play", it's not going to be that much a factor in a cottage industry with relatively small resin casting businesses. What everyone, enamored with such technology forgets, or fails to mention is "the upfront costs".

While resin casting itself is expensive, compared to the material and labor costs of injection molded styrene, its key is that it is relatively INEXPENSIVE when one considers the very low production numbers VS a mass produced styrene model kit.

But, what are the upfront costs? While I have never looked at any of this CAD stuff even casually, it does seem to me that somewhere between $5000 and $10,000 would be the range for buying into the equipment, and the software. Then, to learn to operate it, unless one is already trained in this technology adds even more cost, and a fairly long lead-time before an operator would be capable of using it to any degree of sucess (think of this as going to school on the technology).

Then, there is the obvious necessity of having a real 1:1 prototype with which to work, to get all the measurements, shapes and contours, and that will be one HUGE stumbling block.

Just to amortize the upfront costs mentioned above will necessarily have to be included in the selling price of a resin part or transkit--unless one wants to make a small fortune--out of a much larger fortune. And, while the 21st Century prototype maker is working with his puter, the added equipment which will do the actual shaping--I can still see an old-fashioned 20th Century modeler knocking out a very acceptable master for that same subject, by the old-fashioned way of doing it by hand, and getting it to market way ahead of the computer actuated RP.

Perhaps someday, but I don't expect to see this technology in the model car aftermarket anytime soon.

Art

[astroracer]

Perhaps someday

It's already here Art. TRD is using 3D printing to create trans-kits and such. Creating the 3D model doesn't require anything more then a photo and an idea of how big the part actually is. Up-front costs can simply be having a Rapid Prototype company print out your part... It's really not that expensive when compared to your "start-up" numbers and can make for some high quality resin parts.

Mark S.

Edited February 3, 2010 by astroracer

[arick]

Thanks for the plug Dave.

TDR Innovations is activly involved in producing large scale parts using CAD design and Rapid Prototyping production. Most of our products are in 8th scale but if the demand is there, we will get into smaller scales. Our small scale parts currently include a couple of bodies and some of our large scale parts can be scaled down.

We are fortunate in that we have made this process work and that we have been able to produce our own products, thus priceing them reasonably for the average modeller. We have been overwellmed by world wide sales, thus allowing us to continually have new products in R&D.

If any of you have any questions or comments, I'd be more than happy to answer them here. You can also visit our web site at www.tdrcatalog.com or call us at tdr.innovations@gmail.com.

[Chuck Most]

I'd have to agree with the "it may be beneficial to the resin casters" camp. Sure, parts made from rapid prototyping are available as we speak, but those same parts could be used as masters for resin casting. I don't see the 3D printed material taking the place of the venerable resin caster. Not just yet, anyway.

[arick]

For those of you who haven't visited the "Big Boyz" thread, here's a couple of the bodies that we're producing.

These bodies are CAD designed and RP produced and are available in several scales, starting at 1/24. You will note that they have heavy interior braceing to provide support while the body is being preped. Once the body is fully preped, the braces are easily removed.

Edited February 4, 2010 by arick

[Junkman]

For those of you who haven't visited the "Big Boyz" thread, here's a couple of the bodies that we're producing.

These bodies are CAD designed and RP produced and are available in several scales, starting at 1/24. You will note that they have heavy interior braceing to provide support while the body is being preped. Once the body is fully preped, the braces are easily removed.

How brittle or sturdy are these bodies? How do they compare to plastic/resin?

[arick]

This is our first foray into RP bodies and we haven't had a lot of feedback yet. The bodies are strong and the good thing about RP produced products is that any break is very clean with no chips or dust, thus its easily repaired. Another positive is that there is no warpage or flexing with this material, unlike resin.

As shown below, we've tested the strength of some of our other products.

We put ten full tins of tuna on our tubular pro street chassis and there was no break so its an example of how strong this material is.

[Eric Stone]

...ten full tins of tuna on our tubular pro street chassis...

Say that five times fast!

That's very cool. There doesn't seem to be any bow in that at all- Looks very sturdy.

[arick]

One more comment and then I'll go away.

TDR Innovations is not trying to put the resin casters out of business, they've been the backbone of our hobby for years. In fact, we'd like to find a really good resin caster that we could work with on some special projects.

What we are trying to do is to introduce some much needed new products to our hobby. We got into the business because of all the complaints about the "same old stuff" and the impossibilities of trying to convert a SBC into a Hemi. The TDR partnership is made up of modellers and like everybody else, we've had our wish lists of parts that have never been available. Our goal is to make those parts become reality. Call it "filling a void" if you wish.

[Junkman]

Right. When are you guys doing a '61 Imperial then?

[Bowtienutz]

I got a question. If this tecnology is based on 3D cad can't you simply tell the software to print in 1/24th scale instead of 1/12 ?

[Harry P.]

You can create parts in any scale.

[arick]

Harry is correct. But, the technology we currently use does not allow us to print small parts with a smooth surface. In other words, the smaller the part, the rougher the surface finish. However, we can and do produce bodies in 1/24 and 1/25 scale.

As soon as we can find about one hundred grand, we'll update our equipment and then we'll be able to print anything you want.

[Harry P.]

The surface texture that's a result of the "printing" process looks like the surface of a metal casting when the parts are large scale (1/8)... but that same texture looks out of scale on smaller parts. So the problem isn't that you can't create smaller scale parts, you can... it's that the texture (which can't be changed) looks "too big" on smaller scale parts. The solution, of course, is to simply sand the parts smooth if you want to remove the surface texture altogether, like on bodies, no matter what the scale.

As the technology develops, the texture created by the "printing" process will most likely be eliminated... but like Rick says, where things stand today with this technology and with the costs involved, that surface texture is part of the process and you have to live with it (or sand it off!)

[astroracer]

Harry is correct. But, the technology we currently use does not allow us to print small parts with a smooth surface. In other words, the smaller the part, the rougher the surface finish. However, we can and do produce bodies in 1/24 and 1/25 scale.

As soon as we can find about one hundred grand, we'll update our equipment and then we'll be able to print anything you want.

And this where the resin casters get involved. Sanding, priming and "sweetening up" the R.P. part creates a perfect master for resin casting. Rapid prototyping will never eliminate the casters... It will just create more work for them.

Mark S.

Edited February 5, 2010 by astroracer

[Guest promodmerc]

But, what are the upfront costs? While I have never looked at any of this CAD stuff even casually, it does seem to me that somewhere between $5000 and $10,000 would be the range for buying into the equipment, and the software. Then, to learn to operate it, unless one is already trained in this technology adds even more cost, and a fairly long lead-time before an operator would be capable of using it to any degree of sucess (think of this as going to school on the technology).

Art

The one shown in the video is $15,000