Why Did Figures in Model Kits Disappear?

[brad4321]

I throw all figures immediately into the garbage. They always look toylike and not as realistic as the model itself. I always cringe when I see a figure included in or by someone's beautiful car or plane.

[Chuck Most]

I would think you need to be pretty good with a paint and brush to make the figures realistic..

I throw all figures immediately into the garbage. They always look toylike and not as realistic as the model itself.

I think these two statements are the big two reasons you don't see too many kits with figures included nowadays. A lot of auto modelers aren't great with figure painting- it's a totally different set of skills for the most part. Whenever I try to paint a figure, it always ends up looking like Heath Ledger as The Joker. The fact that most of the figures included with car kits aren't as up to snuff as the rest of the kit never helps. Everyone talks about the figures in the old MPC Gangbusters kits- they were the weakest part of those kits in every instance.

[Jon Cole]

Now when you find these kits, you can almost be certain that when you open the box, the figures are gone. That is so frustrating. Seated or standing, I think they are a plus. Just don't make us pass on a first issue of a kit, because the figure(s) won't be available to the second+ issue... seems to me that has been the situation in recent history.

[Art Anderson]

My take on this is that the reasons why more kits don't have figures in them is multifold:

Yes, early plastic model car kits had figures, and not just those from Revell in the multipiece body era; Best Plastics/Aurora's "Famous Race Cars" models of Indianapolis winners had driver figures, as did many of the early Monogram model car (even boat!) kits of the 1950's. AMT's 1974 Indianapolis Eagle Model 6 and McLaren M-16C kits, along with their Grant King Sprint Car kit all had driver figures. However, my memory is telling me that for the most part (for whatever reasons) the driver figure was the least-often used part(s) in all those model car kits.

There has almost always been a problem trying to fit a correctly sized model figure of a human being into a model car interior. Unless the model company involved is willing to spring for a second seat that is compressed under the weight of a driver in addition to a seat like we have come to expect in any model car kit, well, that driver figure isn't going to fit very well behind the steering wheel, at least not and still appear to be "in scale" with the rest of the interior. Of course, to do something like this would have demanded that model car interiors be full depth, unlike the one-piece "tub interiors" which dominated model car tooling from the earliest days of AMT kits until the 1980's. Some of us can remember such kits as the Revell '57 Ford Country Squire (and it's butcher-result '57 Ranchero), and similar Revell kits circa 1957-59 which were among the very first model car kits to feature interiors that built up on a floor pan, not some "tub" that popped into the body shell, with as much as a scale foot between the floor of that "tub" and the true floor as depicted by even those early plastic pan-style chassis. To have had seated figures to go in such off-scale interiors would have endeared the model companies to ADA advocates with their distinct ignoring of legroom.

Someone mentioned tooling costs--yeah, that would be a consideration, but what about the inevitable lawyers who would circle around any model company today who dared to put some even faintly recognizable figure in a model car kit (consider that in 1/25/1/24 scale, facial features on a model figure can be quite recognizable!) had best be prepared to pay somebody a royalty or at least an up-front fee in order to use the likeness of a living person as a figure in a model kit. Back almost 15 years ago now, Chris Etzel, resin caster of some legendary Indianapolis cars, included a standing driver figure in at least a short run of one of his kits. The figure was recognizable, memory wants to say to me that it was of George Souders, winner of the 1927 Indianapolis 500, Now, being a lifelong resident of Greater Lafayette IN, I don't believe that the late George Souders has any living relatives today, certainly no descendants, as he had no known children. But that may not always be the case. Revell, in their iconic (and rather rare today) 1957 Ford Country Squire kit, included a figurine of a perhaps-8yr old boy in a typical 1950's cowboy suit. Now either Revell's pattern makers used their own memories of kids they knew, or some modeling agency provided them with "stock photographs", or they drew from the likes of LIFE magazine, but in any event, the facial features of that figurine are quite realistic for the times, and I would bet a dollar to a doughnut that some enterprising gold-digger would be able to provide his own childhood portrait and say "Revell made that figure off of pics of ME!"--only the statutes of limitations would stand in the way of that, seeing as how Revell was tooling that kit 55 years ago. But surely anyone can see the potential problems there--which would translate into $$ of expense up-front.

But all this said, I would maintain that my first reason given here, that figures tended to be the least-completed part of any of those early model car kits are the reason that more figures were not included in model car kits down through the years. Over on the "warmonger" side of things, if one thinks about it, go to an IPMS Convention, see how relatively few fighter plane builds actually have a pilot seated in the cockpit! Not that often, most modelers there seem to prefer the empty seat as opposed to a plastic pilot imprisoned there in perpetuity, on the tarmac, in a plane that will never take off and fly.

So, all these things seem, or at least it appears to me anyway, to come together to "conspire" that except for the occasional limited run of a model car kit anymore, or certainly the rather vast aftermarket that feeds our model car addiction, figurines are, and will remain, a rather minor part of our hobby, and our building.

Art

[Jairus]

I think the figures in the Revell '57 Wagon are beautiful in their details and represent the era perfectly. Unlike that tiger suited driver which makes me think of Oregon District One Representative David Wu who resigned his seat due to sexual assault allegations. Seems he likes wearing a tiger suit during off times and has been photographed that way a time or two. How he kept getting re-elected is beyond me.

In the slot world there are a few companies that produce various scales 1:23 to 1:27th and many times come with various helmet styles to represent the different eras of racing. I have talked to Ric of Scale Equipment and he has yet to produce any racing driver figures. Too bad because his stuff is beautiful and I know they would become hot items.

But I would have to say that it is that most builders don't bother with figures and so the manufacturers eliminate them as a way of cutting costs.

[bill_rules]

Here's some of the gang that hangs around the garage.....

[Junkman]

I don't do dolls houses.

[Casey]

Revell, in their iconic (and rather rare today) 1957 Ford Country Squire kit, included a figurine of a perhaps-8yr old boy in a typical 1950's cowboy suit. Art

[Casey]

I think these two statements are the big two reasons you don't see too many kits with figures included nowadays. A lot of auto modelers aren't great with figure painting- it's a totally different set of skills for the most part.

I think that's true to a degree, but wouldn't it fall under the "practice makes perfect" category? Nobody builds a perfectly lifelike vehicle on their first, second, or third attempt, but after building 25+, your skills get better (or at least should ).

I think one could reasonably modify a figure by sanding down the glutæus maximus area of a seated figure,, but as noted, there haven't been any good non-racing seated figures included for many years.

[dptydawg]

Its awfully difficult to find decent looking 1/25th scale figures. Many of the early Revell ones were a 2 piece hollow casting. Very difficult to reshape with heavy mold lines at the joints. Tamyia made military figures in 1/25th at one time that were quite acurate and easily adapted to civilian figures. Italiai's truck accesories figures are also quite good. I bought the Monogram garbage truck for the three figures in the kit but they are only about 1/32nd scale. The Mr T figure is at least 1/18th scale. Wat too large to fit into any 1/25 scale vehicle. I use figures in all my doioramas and so I'm always on the lookout for useable figures.

Thanks

Carl

[Chuck Most]

I think that's true to a degree, but wouldn't it fall under the "practice makes perfect" category? Nobody builds a perfectly lifelike vehicle on their first, second, or third attempt, but after building 25+, your skills get better (or at least should ).

I think one could reasonably modify a figure by sanding down the glutæus maximus area of a seated figure,, but as noted, there haven't been any good non-racing seated figures included for many years.

True, but then you just have a realistically painted object that's still just a toylike plastic blob of a human. The majority of the figures I've seen in car kits are barely passable as JC Penny dummies, even with careful paint detailing.

[Longbox55]

i forgot about the Italeri truck driver figures, there are 3 in the box? i know at least one is sitting and i think there are two others that are standing.

Dave, there's 2 different Italeri accassory kits with drivers. The first kit released, which also had a very nice hydrualic crane and a tailgate lift, had 2 figures in it. One was a somewhat skinny standing figure, wearing a windbreaker jacket and a ballcap. I beleive he may have had a mustache as well, The other was a sitting driver, much bulkier that his standing counterpart. He also has a jacket, but his is more of a leather jacket, and no hat. He also has a noticably receeding hairline. The second kit is the one with 3 figures, as you mention, 2 standing and one sitting. All 3 are have summer type clothing. One is in a T shirt and jeans w/suspenders and a ballcap (which is much better detailled that the figure in the first kit). He also has a mustache and looks to possibly have a wad of chew in his cheek. The other standing figure has a sleeveless short and vest, cowboy hat and boots, and is a little on the chubby side. He is wearing sunglasses and has a beard. The sitting driver figure is wearing a stirped longlsleeve shirt, sunglasses, sandals, and has a buzzcut.

[Eshaver]

I know this is taking the topic , "Off Course " but I want to plug Norman Veeber here . Norman does supplu the Mod Squad figures from the old Auroura 1950 Mercury and a set of Three figgures he calls "Mom , Pop , and the kids " . I have the mom and pop set and yes , they trim out nicely I might add.

If you look at the center of the Shell building , you can see the Gentleman and his da\ughter . I saved the Wife and a baby for another diorama , soon to be prevued here .............

Ed Shaver

Edited February 12, 2012 by Eshaver

[Casey]

True, but then you just have a realistically painted object that's still just a toylike plastic blob of a human. The majority of the figures I've seen in car kits are barely passable as JC Penny dummies, even with careful paint detailing.

True, the existing figures could be much improved upon, or better yet, new figures created or modified. I have seen some military figures which are quite realistic, but again, the auto figures lag far behind in terms of realism.

@Ed- those figures remind me of the other thing which I don't like about "stand alone" figures- the molded on bases. I understand they are there to keep the figures from toppling, but it kills the realism for me. At least with seated figures (like the one you have sitting on the repair ramps), such a base isn't needed and therefore not seen.

[Casey]

No comment on if the truckers are accurate to their 1:1 likenesses, but at least there are options.

Edited February 12, 2012 by Casey

[kenb]

There are members who are figure modelers at one of the clubs I belong to. It is a whole different thing to paint realistic figures. These guys are more artist than model builders, but with a little advice and instruction from them I have improved my figures 10 fold. If you really want to do it right, and I mean as realistic as the car model you are building, you will need to get some of the literature that's online or go to a figure show and make some friends (They're all a great bunch and share) and practice like crazy.

Ken

[XJ6]

I would like to chime in...I just came across the "Tom Daniel" Paddy Wagon Revell / Monogram kit. 85-2543 Limited Edition 1 of 10,000 with a Collectible Certificate of Authenticity at the flea market today for only $7.00.

and this kit contains fully painted, sculpted figures of officers Fogerty and O'Reilly for i believe Fogerty is in side the model driving the Paddy Wagon and O'Reilly on the out side of the Paddy Wagon holding on to the back door.

I know there has been a lot of issues...and reissues of the Paddy Wagon..for it has always been a number one seller for the Revell /Monogram line of Plastic model kits, (so they say on the intro cover on the instructions)...however i have never seen any paddy wagon with figures.. that is untill today.... has always i research kits on Evil-Bay just to get an idea of the price of a said kit..and it seems they are in the $40.00 to $80.00 range....my guess is it is a $30.00 /$35.00 kit....

I assume that most of the Paddy Wagon kits you can pick-up for ....well cheap...I figure that this kit is a bit more pricey just because the have the figures....

Cheers to all.....

[RancheroSteve]

I actually typed then deleted a disclaimer of sorts, indicating that I was asking about figures which were for the most part intended to be used in or with the vehicle, versus Revell's semi-recent pre-painted figures which are intended to be displayed alongside the vehicle. The figures in the '56 kits are specifically designed to be placed inside the vehicles, and are unfinished, like the rest of the model kit, hence why I chose not to include anything die-cast based or pre-finished.

At any rate, the question still stands.

Just one small note from me - the Ken Miles figure sits in the car, and is also very thin, so that he sits rather realistically.

Edited February 14, 2012 by RancheroSteve

[JMChladek]

Race car kits are more likely to have figures than street cars. Monogram did it with four of their stock cars in the early 1990s (the Stock Car Plus series) and Tamiya's 2001 Ford Focus rally car has figures of McRae and Grist in it (I believe the rally driver figures are available seperately now). Both AMT and Monogram's Indycars also had figures.

Part of the problem Monogram ran into with their driver figures in the stock cars though is the helmet and goggle configuration was very much late 1980s style. So when drivers began going to full faced helmets with the hose ducts leading to the cool air boxes, it dated the figures a bit badly and they quietly got dropped around 1991. AMT/Ertl's Indycars from 1988-89 also looked like they borrowed molds from the 1970s as the helmets didn't look current to that period (they could be modified of course).

Proper sculpting of the figure I imagine is one of the reasons why they went by the wayside after about the early 1960s. For a tooler to do a figure requires a different amount of skill than a car body. At one time, both were hand done affairs, but pantagraphing technology was improving in the late 1960s and 70s, so it was probably considered better to focus on that aspect for money savings. It does look like in MPCs case though in the 1970s, they added the figures as a way to add "value" to some of their kits that were warmed over reissues, such as the Happy Days and Kotter repops of cars like the Monkeemobile (they did something similar with the suited alien figure in the Space 1999 total revamp of the Moonscope). Injection molding technology of the time did sort of limit what poses can be done with figures though. The Japanese and Chinese firms have been upping what can be done with figures today, but while 1/35 armor models seem to be embracing that, car models seem left out in the cold.

I admit painting a figure is not the easiest thing. But, it is a skill like any other. Besides, I know some modelers that can do great things with figures that would probably scratch their heads when it comes to doing a great gloss paintjob with no orange peel on a car model. As with anything, it takes practice.

[disabled modeler]

I don't mind the challenge of making the figures look realistic and I think some models benefit from having them with them...dioramas,etc. If anyone wants to toss them out Ill take them and use them in my projects.

[SPIKE426]

[Scale-Master]

As soon as a figure is added, it can either make the model look like a toy or give it some life. That is mostly in the skill of the figure painter.

To me if there is a figure in the car, then the car also has to be painted/detailed in a way that makes it compliment and go along with the figure. A figure moves the model from a stand-alone to a vignette. And I personally like the mechanical side of the machines over the addition of figures.

Much like I left out the figures of Batman and Robin when I recently built the Batmobile. With them, it looks like a toy, without them, it looks like a replica.

I think they went away when the manufacturers realized they were no longer a big selling point. They came back to some degree after small action figures had become popular.

[torinobradley]

Preiser did some figure kits in G or 1/22.5 scale that include a lot of different heads, torsos, arms and legs in different positions and postures. You just used the parts you wanted to create the pose your looking for.

The problem with these figures (or best part for some of our more demented personalities) is that they are without any material coverings, requiring you to create the clothes for them as well.

Preiser also has 100s of other figures both painted and unpainted in all kinds of poses/professions/dressings/characters. Just do a search and be in awe of the variety and say ouch when you see some of the prices...

[wisdonm]

Of course it's a dollar thing for one reasone or another. It would be foolish to think otherwise.

I do have a Jungle Pam from a Revell Monza FC.

[jmpsebring]

Figure sculpting is such a unique art form. The hobby has it's own shows and they hang with each other. Plus painting is another skill to master. How many hobbies are you going to learn? I took up painting, and enjoy it. I tried sculpting.......not very good at all. Model Factory hiro has hired someone to sculpt figures. It's a new venture, but they do everything first class. We may soon have quality figures for car models. I agree with others, most figures are the weak point of a display.