Harry P. Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 The thing you gotta remember about the Plymouth wagon Chuck, it that it never was released as an "annual". It was only released originally as a promo with the hood molded in. It wasn't released as a "kit" until the USA Oldies serise in the '70's. When you think about it, it's kinda surprising that they redid it enough to actually have a seprate hood and engine instead of just letting it run as a curbside. And besides all that... where else are you gonna go for a '60 Plymouth wagon? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Hall Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 And besides all that... where else are you gonna go for a '60 Plymouth wagon? That kit was my first Johan kit...got it as a kid in 1978. I do remember thinking it was odd that it had no inner fenders, but that didn't stop me from making a brush-painted glue bomb out of it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Hall Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 Brush-painted glue bombs rock !! Yeah, I haven't restored some of the ones I built that way back then...kind of neat to leave them as is and look back at the strange stuff I did as a kid (like the Revell '56 Chevy 210 2dr sedan w/ the shag carpeting glued all over the interior and the rear quarter window glass glued on the outside... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry P. Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 Brush-painted glue bombs rock !! Yep. Because the more glue, the better the burn!!! I don't know how many classic Johan (and other) kits my friends and I built, crashed and burned when we were kids! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkman Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 Brush-painted glue bombs rock !! +1! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1930fordpickup Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 That is the good thing about Johan different subjects . When it comes to kits themselves I look at things differently than most people do . When I was a little kid I liked the promo style kits better, you could play with them after you built them. Being one of 11 kids you did not get kits and toys ,you got one or the other. So I liked that my older brothers had the bullet proof glass style kits , they out lived my brothers playing day's . Sadly only parts survived my mods ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jantrix Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 Whether they were good or bad they were always different and I really miss them. The '60 Desoto is stil one of my grails. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casey Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 Not to get too far off topic but I really do love brush painted glue bombs. Sounds like a good idea for a new topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
my80malibu Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 Jo-Han kits were fun,Easy to build, had a good amount of detail,and were not too expensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie8575 Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 Brush-painted glue bombs rock !! Could it possibly be because they're as hard as rocks to dis-assemble? Charlie Larkin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie8575 Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 Another off-the-beaten-path Jo-han did I loved was the Marlin. NOONE else did the Marlin. Have one of those downstairs, and I fully intend to build it. I love AMCs in general, and have always liked Marlins. I'll probably display next to my Charger when it's done in some clever diorama or another. Charlie Larkin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorvairJim Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 And besides all that... where else are you gonna go for a '60 Plymouth wagon? Well, Harry, I'm stuffing the chassis, running gear, and engine bay sheetmetal from the AMT '57 Chrysler 300C under one at the moment for the Cannonball CBP. It's an almost perfect fit, and takes care of the missing wheel well problem just fine! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtx6970 Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 I happen to big a BIG fan of the old Johan kits. Some might say I might have gone a bit overboard. This is just the unbuilt stuff. I have at least another 2 dozen builders of various kits in the stockpile,,, mostly original late 60's and early 70's annuals ( don't ask, none are for sale at this time ) I will agree it seems some of the kits released towards the end you could tell the tooling was getting sloppy. But Johan did kits no one else would touch. And they were hands down the most accurate bodies of the day( still are for the most part) just look what the Johan 1969 Road Runner kits bring, when the AMT 1969 GTX kit is so easily modifed to replicate the same car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Austin T Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 I want a marlin soooo bad and I know a guy with one but I don't think he'd sell it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr moto Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 The thing you gotta remember about the Plymouth wagon Chuck, it that it never was released as an "annual". It was only released originally as a promo with the hood molded in. It wasn't released as a "kit" until the USA Oldies serise in the '70's. When you think about it, it's kinda surprising that they redid it enough to actually have a seprate hood and engine instead of just letting it run as a curbside. The "USA Oldies" series had a lot of problems and shouldn't be confused with the real Johans from a decade or more earlier. By the time of the "USA Oldies" (Seville ownership) some of the tooling was already lost, destroyed, worn out or ????? and the kits were sort of made up of what was available. The '62 Plymouth convertible includes a '63 Plymouth dashboard and the '62 Plymouth hardtop has a Dodge Polara dash, i.e., the correct '62 dash was gone by that time. The "Oldies" version of the '62 Chrysler 300H has the wrong interior, etc. The original issues had the correct parts. The '63 Plymouth re-issue has the most amazing flash that I've ever seen - to the extent that there are "ghosts" of parts that aren't actually included in the kit in the flash. The originals back in the day were clean and crisp. As was said by others, Johan died a slow, painful death and as a long time fan of Johan it was sad to watch! In their day they were among the best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casey Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 I think part of the appeal of Johan kits lies in their "independent" status, at least compared to AMT/Ertl, Revell and Monogram during the '80s. Johan made their kits in Detroit, in a small buidling, with outdated equipment, and I think a lot of people wanted to see them succeed just based on their underdog status. The history of Johan is similar to that of AMC, the last of the independent automakers, in that they were always the little kid on the block, trying to make due with outdated equipment and older products, and never being able to come up with enough money to invest back into the company. It seems they were always playing catch-up, but were never quite able to do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkman Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 Well, Harry, I'm stuffing the chassis, running gear, and engine bay sheetmetal from the AMT '57 Chrysler 300C under one at the moment for the Cannonball CBP. It's an almost perfect fit, and takes care of the missing wheel well problem just fine! So you put the body of a new-for-1960 Chrysler "Unibody" car on an old Chrysler body-on-frame chassis? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr moto Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 (edited) So you put the body of a new-for-1960 Chrysler "Unibody" car on an old Chrysler body-on-frame chassis? Goood point! There really aren't any full detail kits of Unibody Mopars of that era. Hint, hint.....Moebius, are you listening? 300G? Edited June 19, 2012 by mr moto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkman Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 (edited) Goood point! There really aren't any full detail kits of Unibody Mopars of that era. Hint, hint.....Moebius, are you listening? 300G? That's exactly THE point. For fullsize Unibody Mopars, it's either Jo-Han or bugger all to this day. But every time I say this is a crying shame, I am shouted down. I totally agree with you, that the next logical step for Moebius (or any other kit manufacturer) would be one of the first Unibody Letter Series Chryslers. I also prefer the G to the F, but either one of them would do me just fine, thank you. Imagine having the Moebius '55, the AMT '57 and the whoever '60 or '61 parked next to each other on your shelf. What a nice representation of the first three Letter Series generations would this be? Oh, and could some resin casters please fill the gaps in between those? BTT: I received this information from Dennis Doty regarding the design of the Jo_Han molds. It looks like I was wrong regarding the molding machines, though: "I don't have a photo of the Jo-Han tools, and don't think I have a photo of the hobs. It is not easy to explain. Regular tools are either cut into the mold bases, or as separate inserts made to drop into a mold base so optional versions can be made. The mold bases for the Jo-Han tools were very different. These were made to hold individual "hobs" which were the individual mold sections. As an example, for a body there would be hobs for the sides and the top, and maybe more, depending on the complexity of the body. Then there would be individual hobs for each part necessary. I don't know how these were assembled to make the runners to connect the various parts, and the male/female hobs to make the parts of the correct thickness when molded. I believe that the bases could be used in a regular molding machine as the Jo-Han molding machines didn't look much different than those at AMT - just a LOT older and in need of constant repair - the repairs being done by my late good friend, Bill Schwarz. Okey is having these models/parts molded, so I must assume the mold bases will work in a regular molding machine as I would just about bet the old Jo-Han molding machines were melted down for scrap as they barely worked." Edited June 19, 2012 by Junkman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Austin T Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 The history of Johan is similar to that of AMC, the last of the independent automakers, in that they were always the little kid on the block, trying to make due with outdated equipment and older products, and never being able to come up with enough money to invest back into the company. It seems they were always playing catch-up, but were never quite able to do that. That's exactly what I think of to,Both companies had some duds and amazing things,and both companies items are highly sought after.Kinda wish someone would bring both companies back,could you imagine a 2012 Javelin? Speaking of the Javelin,what ever happened to the molds for it and the AMX?Lost in the Bermuda triangle?I can see all the old Jo-Han molds chilling at the bottom of the sea with ufo's, Cessna's and flight 19. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modelmartin Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 Perhaps someone with greater knowledge can tell us but I thought Jo-Han was a supplier to the big auto companies of molded plastic parts (taillights, etc.)They did lots of promos for Detroit too. The kits, I assumed, were there to keep them busy when business got slow for the "real" work. They did produce a few aircraft kits, too. I am definitely a Jo-Han fan, especially after the Mickey Thompson and Gene Snow Funny Cars and the ProStock kits came out. I was in 7th heaven as a 13 year old could be at that time. With my allowance I could get another one every three weeks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkman Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 (edited) Perhaps someone with greater knowledge can tell us but I thought Jo-Han was a supplier to the big auto companies of molded plastic parts (taillights, etc.)They did lots of promos for Detroit too. The kits, I assumed, were there to keep them busy when business got slow for the "real" work. They did produce a few aircraft kits, too. I am definitely a Jo-Han fan, especially after the Mickey Thompson and Gene Snow Funny Cars and the ProStock kits came out. I was in 7th heaven as a 13 year old could be at that time. With my allowance I could get another one every three weeks! Jo-Han always was a model company only. The supplier of plastic parts to the car industry who wanted to diversify into model production was Seville Enterprises. Edited June 19, 2012 by Junkman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAL Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 (edited) The real Jo-Han died a slow and painful death during the Eighties. One could see the decline in quality back then, the kits became worse and worse as the decade progressed, not so much because the molds wore out, but due to less and less skilled staff working the equipment. Seville did a valiant job cranking out over 30 reissues in promo form under the X-EL banner. This must have been extremely difficult, considering Jo Han molds were made to a unique design and could not be used in standard injection molding machines. It proved so difficult, that Seville was constantly behind schedule (at some stage by as much as two years!), for which they got quite some beating from the customers, and the whole thing probably never turned them a profit in the end. When the crisis hit the Detroit auto makers in the Nineties (Seville was mainly a plastic parts supplier to the car industry), Seville pulled the plug and X-EL production ceased. Whatever happened in the buyout by Okey Spaulding is unclear, but each and every version of the story I heard cannot be topped in naivety, credulity and downright dimwittedness on the side of Mr. Spaulding. Even after all these years, he never clearly told the story of what really happened, which is very sad indeed. What little info I have is courtesy of Dennis Doty, who worked for Jo-Han, and later X-EL, and he has nothing good to say about his former employers, but revealed to me, that Mr. Spaulding really got the shaft end of the deal. Mr. Doty had left Seville for becoming a writer and editor in Texas before the deal with Mr. Spaulding was struck and had no part in it. In fact, it was Mr. Doty who assisted Mr. Spaulding in identifying what was there after the deal turned out pear-shaped. So the big deal is that there is no deal. Jo-Han is dead as a tin of corned beef and there is no way to make that cow graze the meadows ever again. Yeah I could never quite figure that out either. It does seem like Spaulding got the short end. The only think I do know is there wasn't much left of the tooling, and it would take tens of thousands of dollars to fix one of the several tools he ended up with. Spaulding has been dabbling with the little bit of stuff he has to work with and some resin replacement parts. But there is less than a 1/2 of a percent chance that Johan will ever be revived. Edited June 19, 2012 by CAL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkman Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 It does seem like Spaulding got the short end. That is an undisputed fact. Part of this fact is the disappearance of much of the tooling. Here is where the speculation sets in, because Okey never clarified the situation. Nobody besides him knows, which tools went missing, and which are present, or which parts. Another fact I forgot to mention is, that the actual tooling pieces that had to be placed into the 'hobs' to make a mold, were not made from steel. Instead, they were made from some sort of composite material, then plated with some beryllium alloy. Beryllium is an extremely valuable metal. Rumor has it, that angry employees, who haven't been paid, sold some of the tooling for its beryllium content. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casey Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 There was a really good Johan topic somewhere on the forum, but I can't seem to locate it. A European member had actually visited Detroit and the Johan building in the '90s IIRC, and maybe posted some pics of the inside? The ending was typical., though- the building was razed years ago and is now a parking lot. Google Maps confirms it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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