The Logic behind kits being reissued or not.

[Greg Myers]

The economy being what it is and everyone wanting to turn a buck, one has to wonder about the philosophy behind releasing or not releasing older kits, availability of usable molds taken into account. Nostalgia really seems to play a part in this market and the hobby as a whole.After all the demographics of these both seem to lean toward the older side.

When speaking of older kits in any of the many threads here, an example of an older kit will invariably pop up. Then the thread will swing toward a "Why don't they reissue that kit" bent. In light of my questions here, why don't they reissue some of these older kits? Seems like a no brainer.

The kits I have in mind are the multi kits of yore, say many of the flat box kits from Jo-Han or the great 6 in 1 '30's Fords from Monogram.

The double Parts Pack kits also come to mind.

Even if they feel they have to put it in a tin the old AMT '36 Ford coupe would fit right in with the nostalgia thing.

All of these kits have many build possibilities and when their done lots of extra parts for your next build.

The success of the recent releases of many older kits come to mind, The AMT Double Dragster and the AMT Double Model T both "tall tee" and chopped.

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Edited December 12, 2012 by Greg Myers

[Casey]

There are so many unknowns to those of us on the outside looking in, some of which you touched upon, but using the Monogram '36 Ford as an example...

1) What condition are the molds in? (good in this case. This kit's been reissued a dozen times or so)

2) Are there inserts for the original, stock wheels and tires (styrene, IIRC), or have the molds been irreversibly changed?

3) How much would it cost to change the molds/tooling back to the original issue version?

4) How many more kits would Revell sell in the original version compared to the sales numbers from the most recent "Car Show" reissue?

5) Would such a "backdating" make financial sense over the short term, or even over the expected life of the tooling?

My feelings? In the majority of cases, speaking of Monogram/Revell kits, I doubt it makes financial sense (i.e. money invested to backdate tooling is far greater than potential profits from said of backdated kit) for Revell, Inc. to do any backdating and/or major mold/tooling work.

I also think condition of the molds and lost/missing inserts is a major issue, too. My gut tells me keeping the entire inventory of Revell, Aurora, and Monogram molds/tooling organized is a full-time job for someone, and what about maintaining it all? Does Revell, Inc. have a staff of workers whose job it is to maintain the tooling, prevent corrosion, and repair molds if necessary?

I have to wonder if every single piece of tooling is accounted for and identified, so they know exactly what they have, and what can and cannot be used...which brings me to another thought- what if all the tooling for these kits you long for are either too far gone to repair, or have already been scrapped?

The other thing is that these "6 'n 1" and "3 'n 1" kits aren't really all that different from what Revell is offering today. Yes, you may not be able to get all the parts in one, single kit, but with the options we have available these days (this forum , eBay, swap meets), it's not too difficult to procure the extra, optional parts you desire. Often times the "Drag" and "Custom" tires are the same, the engine differences are minimal, and in the case of the Monogram '36 Ford, they're "doubling" the number of build options by including the greenhouse as a separate piece. That's kinda cheesy in all honesty, as I think most people would prefer the coupe and to have the top/roof molded as one with the body, instead of needing to fill and blend the gap between the two. It's really a 3' n 1 kit, with an optional greenhouse.

I think we older modelers tend to look back with our rose colored glasses, and our focus narrows in on what we want as older adults, versus what the majority of the model buying public wants.

Unless we can get answers from someone on the "inside", we'll probably know why certain kits are reissued and others aren't...but we can sure discuss it.

[LDO]

Sanitary T??? That's the name of a drain pipe fitting. LOL

[Guest]

Round2 has given us a lot of good reissues and I have bought most of them. While I would like to see them do some all new tools, it sure isn't going to hurt my feelings if they keep dragging out those old tools of cool kits and improving upon them. There are still so many more they can do. I would love to see them reissue the '63 Ford F-100 with the go cart and all of the custom parts it came with. For now, I can be content with and build what they have given us so far.

[Guest G Holding]

"Unless we can get answers from someone on the "inside", we'll probably know why certain kits are reissued and others aren't...but we can sure discuss it." I know nobody inside...but I do know the answer. Its MONEY !! The company researches the market and then invests in a product...new tool or old, makes said product, makes PROFIT and does it all over again. Face it, has ANY model company asked what you want? So they must have a science to make kits. As I look back this last year, most kits were well recieved...look at the Hudson, 48 Ford ,50 Olds..seem to sell well, so looks like they really do know what we want.

[Ace-Garageguy]

Probably if 10,000 guys sent in $10 deposits on a particular kit they'd like to see brought back, it might get someone's attention......

I think a lot of us would be happy with re-issues of some kits even if they weren't restored to first-issue condition. I sure would, and I'd really like to be a fly on the wall in the planning sessions, and see what the break-even numbers are for a kit when most or all of the tooling still exists.

There are a lot of interconnected issues involved in ANY manufactured item coming to market, and one surely is that a profusion of kits offered at the same time would tend to slow sales of each individual kit, making amortization of the capital investment required slower for each kit. Everything depends on the bean-counters and market-analyists, and a lot of time in making any business decision these days goes into the CYA game too. It costs a lot of money to fund endless meetings to decide what to do, and to determine how much the blame can be spread if a project fails to meet projections.

[sjordan2]

The 36 convertible in post #1 was one of my first kits, but not in that form. I think a six-way kit as shown (which I never knew about) would be a slam-dunk for a successful reissue, and would sell multiples per customer.

But...considering the multiple threads we've seen on "New kits we'd like to see" or other "reissued" threads, maybe there should be a whole permanent topic on this. It would certainly be more interesting than 315 pages on "What did you get today?"

Edited December 12, 2012 by sjordan2

[Tom Geiger]

AMT holds the cards to a lot of possibilities, especially because they have the AMT / MPC history of annuals. The problem is that if the molds still exist, they exist as the last variant of that model, where in most cases the earlier model would be preferred by us guys. For instance AMT just reissued the Gremlin kit, last issue where we'd like the '71 model. Resin has come to the rescue on this one. AMC Pacer? The last release was the later big hood bump model. Same with Volares - the ugly 1980 model can be reissued, but the nicer looking 76-77s cannot without some mold work. And we don't know how much else was revised. Did they update interiors or other details that would need to be backdated?

Another example is the MPC Dodge van run. People seem to think that all you'd need to do would be to update the tail lights and grill to go back to the original issue. I pulled out a run of this kit and was amazed at how much they retooled year to year for the annuals. Even the roof stiffening ridges changed several times. The kit also came with a mess of different accessories over the years, everything from funny car like mid engines, to rolling bedroom interior to built in work benches. It would be fun to see what accessories still exist in different inserts or maybe even welded off sprues still in the mold. But the best we could hope for is a back date one issue to the version with the stacked rectangular headlights. I'd be happy with that!

[Harry P.]

There's one very simple answer to the question:

If the manufacturer, after taking everything into account (demand, condition of the tooling, etc.) thinks there's a profit to be had by re-issuing a certain model kit, they will reissue it. And if they don't think there's a profit to be had, they won't reissue it.

It's not any more complicated than that.

The bottom line for a model company, like any business, is profit (as it should be!)

[Craig Irwin]

I love reissues, but I can hear all of the gripes and complants about "More crapy reissues when what we really want is new kits" allready.

[Greg Myers]

We ain't gettin' alot of "New Kits" so maybe a few "Old" kits might just be ok ?

[High octane]

Harryy's right as the BOTTOM LINE is: no profit, no re-issue. It is ALL about money and nothing else.

[slusher]

AMT Reissued still make nice models, they just take a little more work...

[Greg Myers]

Harryy's right as the BOTTOM LINE is: no profit, no re-issue. It is ALL about money and nothing else.

or, no new kits no profit. but maybe some old kits, some profit ?

[gtx6970]

or, no new kits no profit. but maybe some old kits, some profit ?

I can assure you, if it's being made - it will be profitable. Manufactures pay big money to marketing people for it not to be. And I'd bet everything I own manufactures/marketing people monitor boards like this ( in silence) to insure it will be from the get go .

2nd , as far as re-issues most likely the tooling for a re-issued kit has long since paid for itself . so the more they can get out of it with minimal upkeep AND said product continues to sell. they'll just keep popping them out .

3rd - as far modern new tools , I can assure you if it's all possible,,,, the tooling is up-datable to make subtle revisions and introduce another variation of said subject.

Edited December 13, 2012 by gtx6970

[johnbuzzed]

I love reissues, but I can hear all of the gripes and complants about "More crapy reissues when what we really want is new kits" allready.

I agree. But keep in mind that when all-new kits of any subject are released, there will be griping and complaining, too- in some cases, rightfully so. As Alvin Lee once sang: "You can't win them all."

I sometimes think that we older modelers would like to see reissues of golden oldies because those kits would be a way to connect with our younger years, especially when that reissue would be in an original-appearing box. Often, those older kits are less complex and easier to assemble than our contemporary new kits; that might be a contributing factor in the requests for those reissues.

[pandamonium2112]

I'm really lovin the re-releases that have been popping up. Maybe they are just testing the waters to see if the market is there to dump the money into and hope to get it back. It's been my obsevation that the re-releases are selling well and that there is hope on the horizon for more...

[Harry P.]

It's been my obsevation that the re-releases are selling well and that there is hope on the horizon for more...

You can be sure the model companies will keep on reissuing old kits. The tooling was paid for long ago, and any new sales an old reissued kit can bring is almost all profit.

[Frank]

We ain't gettin' alot of "New Kits" so maybe a few "Old" kits might just be ok ?

I would buy a heap of these if it was re-issued. It was the first kit I ever built.

[Greg Myers]

You and me both brother.

[Tom Geiger]

Wrong! It's not about profits at all. The model companies are conspiring against me personally!

Actually they are watching the demographics and the aging baby boomers. We are retiring at a fast rate with more people who will need leisure activities in the future. As the stock market and economy comes back, more people will retire once the conditions are favorable. There will be this big mass of guys with a lot of time on their hands for the next 30-40 years or so. That's why we're getting these great new tools from Revell and Moebius aimed specifically at our age group!

[Skip]

I was thinking as Casey was making some really great points about the AMT '36 Ford Cabrio-Coupe. That most of us really don't mind messing with a resin conversion body or even a kit, some of us even like the challenge. Listen to the collective whine from the crowd when one of the model makers releases a kit whose tooling is getting just a little long in the tooth. We expect pristine plastic or else we're not even going to mess with it, period! If the tooling for some of the rare kits exist and was able to produce a halfway decent casting. If the models maker advised the buyer that this kit is not up to their usual standards of fit and finish, requiring extra effort and fit up to make the model. I'd buy it in a heartbeat! Look at some of the restorations some of you guys do on the glue bombs, how much different is that?

[Tom Geiger]

"We expect pristine plastic or else we're not even going to mess with it, period! If the tooling for some of the rare kits exist and was able to produce a halfway decent casting. "

Here's the tough part for the model companies. When they reissue an older kit that's not up to contemporary standards we, as a group remember the originals and know what to expect.. stuff like one piece interiors, one piece chassis and wire axles through the engine block! But new modelers, especially young folks, see that new kit as a brand new release. They have just bought a great AMT kit like the '55-'57 Chevy pickup or '58 Plymouth and then they open the box to their brand new '62 Buick! They wonder what the heck happened and feel duped. So it's difficult for the model companies, no doubt why AMT went to showing the sprue contents etc on the bottom of the box.

I never had given this any thought until a guy in his 20s posted on another board how disappointed he was with the Killer Bee VW. He had no idea it was a repop of an older kit from less demanding times! But I see his point.

Edited December 14, 2012 by Tom Geiger

[johnbuzzed]

Along those lines, Tom, maybe the manufacturers should have a disclaimer/disclosure/explanation on the outside of reissued kits- i.e., "Reissue of an original 1962 (or whatever) kit"...?

[Casey]

Along those lines, Tom, maybe the manufacturers should have a disclaimer/disclosure/explanation on the outside of reissued kits- i.e., "Reissue of an original 1962 (or whatever) kit"...?

I think that's a trap, much like "the older you are, the more skilled you are" argument. Some '60s era kits still hold up very well, while some of AMT, MPC, Monogram, and Revell '80s kits are, well, not very nice.

I guess that's why a forum like this and Model Cars Magazine hold a lot of value for almost everyone. Knowledge is always a good thing, and the more info you can get, the better. Reading, seeing or hearing about how that Lightning Rods Chevy Monza by Revell was a huge pain to put together would make someone think twice about buying one, and vice-versa for a good kit. The pictures and parts layout on the box can only tell you so much, and even then, it's near impossible fro Revell or Round2 to connect the dots between a consumer buying one of their models and the enjoyment the consumer gets (or doesn't get) from building the model.

But new modelers, especially young folks, see that new kit as a brand new release. They have just bought a great AMT kit like the '55-'57 Chevy pickup or '58 Plymouth and then they open the box to their brand new '62 Buick! They wonder what the heck happened and feel duped. So it's difficult for the model companies, no doubt why AMT went to showing the sprue contents etc on the bottom of the box.

I never had given this any thought until a guy in his 20s posted on another board how disappointed he was with the Killer Bee VW. He had no idea it was a repop of an older kit from less demanding times! But I see his point.

I think this is one of those "you have to learn with experience" situations, but as I said above, you can speed up the process by going online and looking for info before you buy. I can remember being disappointed by quite a few kits I purchased in the '80s (I'm looking at you MPC), but it never killed my interest in building...just my desire to buy any more MPC kits.