3D printing now offered from a mainstream model company...

[Ace-Garageguy]

Direct scans of 1:1's are still a lot of work. I know that on the Kirkham Cobra Daytonas that were 3D scanned to make 1:1 replicas, that process took 17 hours of actual scanning, then another 80 hours of computer work just to get the point cloud down to a manageable level that could be used to make cross-sections for further manipulation, and that was just for the body panels...

I've personally been involved in a buildup of a Kirkham 427 roadster, the first of the Cobras to have been scanned / CNC'd and they're wonderful. Much better Cobras than real Cobras. They're SYMMETRICAL !!!

The 97 hours you speak of is only about 2.5 weeks of work for one skilled man. Pretty cheap for getting the body shape RIGHT the first time.

Edited May 30, 2013 by Ace-Garageguy

[sjordan2]

Digitizing a 1:1 car for a model is certainly no piece of cake. Amalgam did it to create 1/8 versions of some of the cars in Ralph Lauren's collection ($9,500 each at Ralph Lauren stores), including his Bugatti Atlantic. While they haven't used 3D printing yet, they have used digital machining. Just to show what goes into the first part of the process, Alamgam says:

"Creating them is an exercise in patience. Each car was digitally scanned to capture each detail and curve. The technology is accurate to one tenth of a millimeter over the length of the car, which translates to an authentic scale reproduction of the original.

From there, artists create a master model using a combination of digital machining, traditional engineering and hand craft skills. This process takes about 3,000 hours of work by a team of model makers. Each individual model then takes approximately 350 hours more to complete."

They also have a relationship with Ferrari, and get CAD files for more modern cars.

[Ace-Garageguy]

Here's a quick video of non-laser scanning, going directly to CNC machining. All of this tech exists, is evolving rapidly, and costs continue to come down. it's EVERYWHERE.

Here's a little taste from Kirkham...

[Harry P.]

Where do I see 3D printing of finished model parts? For the forseeable future, I see this technology entering our hobby in aftermarket parts and accessories, perhaps even limited run kits--but in mass production? For that to be viable, successful, the process would have to be speeded up by quantum factors--given the relatively slow speed of any printer compared to the 1-3 minute cycle of an injection molder, which itself can produce a complete kit in that period of time. Also consider that printers can suffer failures--be they 3D or the inkjet or laser printer at your own computer, failures that can be as small as a munged area on the page, or of course, complete and total stoppage. That kinda makes me think of the "widget machine" which when working went Ka-Chunk, Ka-Chunk, Ka-Chunk, until one day when while nobody was watching it, started going -Chunk, -Chunk, -Chunk, -Chunk. How many defective parts might be made before someone notices that?

Like Casey, you are completely missing the point.

Model kits will not be manufactured by the 3-D printing process. The 3-D printing process will not replace the injection-molding process. Rather, the process of physically creating thousands of kits via the injection-molding process, then boxing those kits, and shipping those kits, and warehousing those kits, and distributing those kits to retailers... that long, convoluted and expensive process will be completely eliminated. Model kit companies will no longer manufacture actual physical kits. They will offer software for the customer to buy, and the kit will be "manufactured" on the customer's end using his/her own personal, in-home printer. Just like music downloads will completely replace physical disks that you have to go to a store and buy. You will buy your "kit" from an online catalog, download the software that will produce that particular kit, and print it out at home.

[sjordan2]

Under that business model, I still think there will be digital piracy issues not unlike those experienced by software companies and the music industry.

Edited May 30, 2013 by sjordan2

[Deano]

And a sad FACT...cursive handwriting is no longer being taught in our schools, "as there is no need" So I guess we really won't need pens or pencils..........Oh and Art, my trusty Cross pencil has been in use since 1969......no cedar

Data point: Cursive is still taught in our School District. Of course we're out in the rural midwest (Hickville to the hoity-toity).

[Luc Janssens]

Under that business model, I still think there will be digital piracy issues not unlike those experienced by software companies and the music industry.

Maybe the file remains at the Manufacturer and you buy one command to start the printer.

Dunno....

[Harry P.]

Under that business model, I still think there will be digital piracy issues not unlike those experienced by software companies and the music industry.

Correct. But they will be solved. And then people will work to get around the solutions. It's called human nature. But today we can buy music and movies digitally, we can even buy computer software digitally (and I have). I don't see any reason why we won't one day be buying model kits digitally.

[Harry P.]

Maybe the file remains at the Manufacturer and you buy one command to start the printer.

Dunno....

Correct. Believe me, they will figure out a solution. This technology is just too innovative to think that it won't be making a big impact on our lives in many ways, not just printing out model kits.

[Harry P.]

I buy stock photos all the time, for use in printed pieces. I buy the photo by downloading it. What's to stop me from using the same photo many times? Or giving it to someone else to use? Same with downloading movies, music, software, etc. If all of those industries can do it, the model kit industry can do it.

[Casey]

Like Casey, you are completely missing the point.

Model kits will not be manufactured by the 3-D printing process. The 3-D printing process will not replace the injection-molding process. Rather, the process of physically creating thousands of kits via the injection-molding process, then boxing those kits, and shipping those kits, and warehousing those kits, and distributing those kits to retailers... that long, convoluted and expensive process will be completely eliminated. Model kit companies will no longer manufacture actual physical kits. They will offer software for the customer to buy, and the kit will be "manufactured" on the customer's end using his/her own personal, in-home printer. Just like music downloads will completely replace physical disks that you have to go to a store and buy. You will buy your "kit" from an online catalog, download the software that will produce that particular kit, and print it out at home.

We understand that, Harry, we just disagree with you.

I understand how you think the process will work, and why you feel costs will eventually decrease enough so that 3D printing is affordable for the average model builder, but is the only thing you're waiting for is time? You don't forsee any other issues or road bumps between now at the affordable point? We can all say "It'll be here in 2015!" or "never gonna happen", since it hasn't happened yet, and none of us will know what will happen until it happens, but you seem to be rah-rah-ing the positives while ignoring the fact that things, like your VCR example, don't always work out how we think they might. I'll mention Beta Max and leave it at that.

I mentioned these same thoughts back in January when this topic was last discussed in depth:

"Posted 16 January 2013 - 09:39 AM

Foxer, on 16 Jan 2013 - 07:25 AM, said:

One thing is it prints solid objects and uses a web-like interior to save material. This is good for small part but bodies would seem to be out of the picture.

As Frank mentioned, you can print a 1/25 scale body in sections if it doesn't fit within the printer's maximum printing area. And here we all thought multi-piece bodies died with Revell's '57 Ranchero and Monogram's 1/32 "Forty-niner" kits.

I still believe 3D printing will compliment injection molding, rather than replace it. 50+ years of tooling won't be rendered obsolete, and the memories those injection molded kits evoke is a real, bankable selling point which 3D printing can't match."

It's fun to stoke the fire and get people excited, and I agree 3D printing is something we as model builders should be excited about, regardless of how and what impact it has on the traditional IM and kit development process, but I'm not going to ignore the fact that the bugs haven't been fully worked out regarding this 3D kit making process, and we probably don't even know what some of those bugs will be until they happen, or until the process develops further. To me, identifying and eventually trying to solve potential problems is what I find interesting, as we both agree that the technology is already here, but the trickle down effect has yet to happen.

[Harry P.]

We understand that, Harry, we just disagree with you.

Actually both you and Art were talking about the possible problems of mass producing kits via 3-D printing. Mass production of models (replacing the injection-molding process with the 3-D printing process) is not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the complete elimination of the manufacturing manufacturing process altogether, and the "manufacturing" being done by the consumer.

Whatever glitches there may be in the 3-D process now, believe me, they will be worked out. I'm sure there were glitches and bugs to work out while the process of making CDs was being perfected, or the process of figuring out how to record TV programs was being perfected, etc. All new technologies have a development process, and the 3-D printing process is no different. I see absolutely no reason to believe that a 3-D printer won't be as common in our homes as an ipod, flat screen TV or cell phone is today... all technologies that weren't even available to us just a few years ago. And now they're completely mainstream and we don't give them a second thought. 3-D printing will follow the same course, and we'll all be printing a whole lot more than just model kits.

[peter31a]

Harry you hit the nail on the head. The one thing you left out though was the fact that they will sell less downloads than they do kits. We will no longer need a stash of kits for parts , or the fear they will never release the kit again.

Oh, don't be so sure about that. How many times have we had to upgrade computers because Microsoft (Or whoever) no longer supports Windows 95 or XP or whatever? It would be easy for Revell to say our 62 Plymouth is no longer available for 3D printer HP123456. Or we (Revell, Round 2 or?) have upgraded 53 GMC pickup kit. The older version is no longer available. You can bet that they will planned obsolesence built in so you will have to keep buying and upgrading otherwise their business fails.

[DirtModeler]

I think 3D printing is coming in a serious way... but the modeling industry will just be a collateral bonus.

They have figured out how to print circuit boards on those things, real shoes have been printed on them, a kid's larynx was printed on one, and there is a restaurant printing food.

3D printing is going to take over a lot of the manufacturing world for consumer products. There will always be a call for textile mfgs, etc, but 3D printing is going to take over much of manufacturing.

why ship something from china... download the file and print it yourself.

As a bonus? we as modelers are going to reap the greatest, and earliest benefit. we just want static stuff that looks correct. and that's what we'll have soon (i think we're still 10 years away from an injection molded quality kit off a 3d printer under $50k).

but further down the pike, you'll be printing out your own electronics, and an upgrade for your phone.. take the old one out, and pop in the new print.

They are also printing at a nano scale now, so you can print individual atoms.

It's coming, that is for certain.. the only question is the timetable.

I think (totaly pulling this out of my butt here), that in 50 years, much of the stuff that is manufactured in 3rd world nations will be printed right in your own home, and the quality will be just as good.

Just think of how much will be saved in fossil fuels not having to ship this stuff around the world anymore?

Edited May 30, 2013 by DirtModeler

[Harry P.]

Oh, don't be so sure about that. How many times have we had to upgrade computers because Microsoft (Or whoever) no longer supports Windows 95 or XP or whatever? It would be easy for Revell to say our 62 Plymouth is no longer available for 3D printer HP123456. Or we (Revell, Round 2 or?) have upgraded 53 GMC pickup kit. The older version is no longer available. You can bet that they will planned obsolesence built in so you will have to keep buying and upgrading otherwise their business fails.

We'll have to see how it all shakes out. My guess, though, is that there will be a standard created for all 3-D printing. Just as you can print any document or digital file on any current printer, you'll be able to print any 3-D file on any 3-D printer. Sure, maybe one model company will try to come out with a proprietary software where you would have to buy one of their printers to print one of their kits, but that would mean the model companies getting involved with the printer companies, and that seems unlikely.

[MAGNUM4342]

Isn't evolution fun?

[Jantrix]

No more producing, packaging, storing and shipping thousands of kits. No more large factories and huge injection-molding machines. Think of the cost savings involved when a traditional kit manufacturer goes digital only.

Yes, there would be a cost savings, but I doubt the consumer will ever see a price drop. Comic book companies are already offering digital copies of their product. The cost is exactly the same as the paper copies. No printing costs, storage, transportation, a fraction of the cost in wages and a digital copy of a $3.95 newsstand comic, costs $3.95. I realize this is likely because they don't want to kill the paper comic market, but it's also greed.

Isn't evolution fun?

No, not really. And I'm fairly certain we are not evolving in the right direction. I'm thinking of the film Idiocracy right now.

[Harry P.]

Yes, there would be a cost savings, but I doubt the consumer will ever see a price drop.

You may be right. From the business' point of view, lower production costs mean more profit, not necessarily a price drop for the consumer... so yeah, the consumer probably wouldn't see a huge price drop for a digital kit vs. a traditional plastic kit, but I do believe that at least a portion of the cost savings would be passed on to the consumer. But the digital 3-D process would enable kit makers to release a lot more new kits, because the costs associated with the traditional kit engineering/tooling/manufacturing/packaging/distribution/retail process would be eliminated. In other words, it would conceivably cost a lot less to bring out a new kit, so odds are we'd see more of them.

[Guest G Holding]

Yes, there would be a cost savings, but I doubt the consumer will ever see a price drop. Comic book companies are already offering digital copies of their product. The cost is exactly the same as the paper copies. No printing costs, storage, transportation, a fraction of the cost in wages and a digital copy of a $3.95 newsstand comic, costs $3.95. I realize this is likely because they don't want to kill the paper comic market, but it's also greed.

Greed ?? I think not. Survival is more like it. Ask the publishers what is the major cost....production / editing / paid content

Making a PROFIT is not greed and I suspect that most business models out there today would not include publication as a money making business to enter

[Brett Barrow]

Actually both you and Art were talking about the possible problems of mass producing kits via 3-D printing. Mass production of models (replacing the injection-molding process with the 3-D printing process) is not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the complete elimination of the manufacturing manufacturing process altogether, and the "manufacturing" being done by the consumer.

Whatever glitches there may be in the 3-D process now, believe me, they will be worked out. I'm sure there were glitches and bugs to work out while the process of making CDs was being perfected, or the process of figuring out how to record TV programs was being perfected, etc. All new technologies have a development process, and the 3-D printing process is no different. I see absolutely no reason to believe that a 3-D printer won't be as common in our homes as an ipod, flat screen TV or cell phone is today... all technologies that weren't even available to us just a few years ago. And now they're completely mainstream and we don't give them a second thought. 3-D printing will follow the same course, and we'll all be printing a whole lot more than just model kits.

I have to disagree. Most folks don't buy models with the sole intent of putting a miniature onto a display shelf, they buy models to put boxes into stashes. You'd be robbing them of the feeling of tearing off the shrinkwrap, opening the box and seeing what's inside, or the feeling of plunking down the cash and walking away with the kit in the box. Not to mention the power that just the box art has on the model-buying public. Models are largely about selling the sizzle, not the steak.

I still have my wall of DVD's proudly on display so that when company comes over I can say (subliminally, of course) "Look at all these movies! I must be soooooo cool to have watched all these movies...", but I haven't opened a case and put a DVD in the machine in years, everything I watch now is through OnDemand or streaming Netflix. I still have bookshelves full of books - "I'm very important. I have many leather-bound books and my apartment smells of rich mahogany..." But I haven't cracked a paper book or magazine (that I paid for) since I bought a Kindle a couple years ago.

The difference, though, it that books and movies are content-based, that's all we really care about, is getting the content into our brains. Models, on the other hand are much different. If it were just about getting that finished model onto the display shelf, there might be something there with 3D printing at home. but I just don't see it panning out. Folks buy ebooks and read them on Kindles and iPads, they don't print paper copies out at home.

3D holograms of cars that you can view and manipulate on a small electronic device? Now that might be the future of modeling....

Edited May 30, 2013 by Brett Barrow

[sjordan2]

No reason why 3D software being sold online can't have beautiful photography to sell the sizzle, and 360 degree walkaround visuals with configuration features such as are available for 1:1 cars would be even better than a box with nice art. In fact, that could be done right now with boxed polystyrene kits.

In fact, Pocher has something very close to that with their slide show on the new Aventador.

www.pocher.com

Edited May 30, 2013 by sjordan2

[Brett Barrow]

No reason why 3D software being sold online can't have beautiful photography to sell the sizzle, and 360 degree walkaround visuals with configuration features such as are available for 1:1 cars would be even better than a box with nice art. In fact, that could be done right now with boxed polystyrene kits.

In fact, Pocher has something very close to that with their slide show on the new Aventador.

www,pocher.com

There will be a segment that goes for it, I have no doubt. There will be home-printed downloaded models. There will be on-demand parts printed at home, I have no doubt. We will be printing models and model parts at home, that's a sure bet. But it will supplement traditional plastic modeling, not supplant it.

[martinfan5]

I have to disagree. Most folks don't buy models with the sole intent of putting a miniature onto a display shelf, they buy models to put boxes into stashes. You'd be robbing them of the feeling of tearing off the shrinkwrap, opening the box and seeing what's inside, or the feeling of plunking down the cash and walking away with the kit in the box. Not to mention the power that just the box art has on the model-buying public. Models are largely about selling the sizzle, not the steak.

And I have to disagree with that entire statement, I buy model kits to, now hold to something, to build,I know, what a concept right?, not put away somewhere to collect dust, I don't care about the box, I care about whats inside the box, sure its nice to look at the box art, I will give you that, but I want to look at what I built, and to feel that accomplishment that I get when I finish a build

Now please don't get me wrong, I really do enjoy taking the shrink wrap off, and opening it up and looking through it, but after that, its time to put all those parts together and build, then, box goes away.

Edited May 30, 2013 by martinfan5

[sjordan2]

There will be a segment that goes for it, I have no doubt. There will be home-printed downloaded models. There will be on-demand parts printed at home, I have no doubt. We will be printing models and model parts at home, that's a sure bet. But it will supplement traditional plastic modeling, not supplant it.

That's my sense of it.

[CJ1971]

Forgive me if this sounds like I'm a little slow, with this new 3D scanning etc, but it's all well & good to have all this in the foreseeable future, ( regarding model making ), but isn't there a cost involved in actual material/s that the scanner would need to "actually" print/make the model, such as some form of plastic, like modern printers need paper/ink etc ?? How can any of these 3D scanners make anything without the necessary "materials"? Whether its plastic, human tissue, rubber, steel etc.... Sorry for the dumb question, but I'm not up to scratch with all this star-trekish technology.... Would someone in the know be able to explain it??

Cheers

Edited May 30, 2013 by CJ1971