Deano Posted September 1, 2013 Share Posted September 1, 2013 Art- This discussion is not about facts and rationality. It's about how we need to buy bulldozers as cargo for big rigs that we have no interest in. This is probably the most lucid and concise post in the entire thread! Bravo, Lee! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Geiger Posted September 1, 2013 Share Posted September 1, 2013 Art is correct, the manufacturers can only make what the rest of the delivery chain will purchase. Note that AMT announced several new kits that didn't happen because they didn't generate the enough presale orders to justify production. That is the wholesalers didn't agree that these would be successful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Posted September 1, 2013 Share Posted September 1, 2013 Ben. Seriously, why do you keep haranguing us with these "you don't KNOW what will sell" and "how can you be certain it won't sell" posts? This forum is, by and large, car modelers with some heavy truck modelers thrown in for variety. WE are not the people who make the production decisions and you overestimate the importance of internet forums in the decision making process. Contact the manufacturers; make your case with them. I can't speak for anyone else but for me, this thread has ceased to be entertaining. I can tell you this for fact, and this is a data point of exactly "one", the only construction machinery kit I would buy is a skid loader (and I think there is a 1/24 or 1/25 die cast available). Farm equipment, I'm a vintage fan; give me an old Farm-all, Ford 8N or 9N or Oliver series 66 Orchard tractor (they have the hugest, coolest skirts). But, alas, NOBODY is making them that I am aware of. Beyond that, there's not a lot in the construction/farm category that I'd be willing to spend money on Dean, I'm just passing time. Not trying to upset anyone or even say that I am right. My initial post stated that I would like to see a new piece of construction equipment tooled up and then instead of everyone allowing me to my opinion, I was bombarded with people that not only don't build the subject, think they know what most or all modelers want. The simple fact is, if brand new model kits of a 1/24 D9R dozer were sitting on hobby shop shelves or online, none of us, not me, you or anyone on this forum have any idea how well they would sell because it hasn't happened yet. (For anyone bound to do so...), don't come at me with "but no model company will take that risk" yea, and maybe that is their loss! Again, none of us know. Some people on here act as if they can actually see the future! Now with that being said, yes diecast models are available of a lot of subjects but A: they are heavier than plastic and that's going to matter if you use them as a load on a plastic trailer. And B: How much nicer would it be to be able to start out with an unassembled model that you can build, detail and weather, as you build it, not to mention the fun and challenge of actually getting to build it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Posted September 1, 2013 Share Posted September 1, 2013 (edited) Art- This discussion is not about facts and rationality. It's about how we need to buy bulldozers as cargo for big rigs that we have no interest in. YOUR part in this discussion is a wasted attempt to convince me you know what all or most modelers want. Ain't gonna happen! You don't have ANY idea what all or most modelers want as I know for a fact that you have never been in one room with them and asked them if they would or would not like a kit of this nature! Edited September 1, 2013 by Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Posted September 1, 2013 Share Posted September 1, 2013 Art is correct, the manufacturers can only make what the rest of the delivery chain will purchase. Note that AMT announced several new kits that didn't happen because they didn't generate the enough presale orders to justify production. That is the wholesalers didn't agree that these would be successful. I'm sorry but with all due respect to Art, he is NOT completely correct. There have been many, many model kits that have never seen the light of day in any major retailer such as Walmart. I find it funny that I still have not had anyone give me a proper answer as to why Revell AG chose to make the off shore oil rig, the bucket wheel excavtor and the Atomic Power plant????? And these are just off the top of my head! You were lucky to see ONE of those kits in a hobby shop but you know what, THEY WERE STILL PRODUCED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! if a completely obsure subject that not very many people have EVER EVEN SEEN, actually gets made into a full blown model kit, than how can a single one of you make me think that a bulldozer, that, unless your from another planet, you have a good idea of what they look like will never be made into one???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deano Posted September 1, 2013 Share Posted September 1, 2013 (edited) I find it funny that I still have not had anyone give me a proper answer as to why Revell AG chose to make the off shore oil rig, the bucket wheel excavtor and the Atomic Power plant????? Maybe that's because no one here was involved in those decisions. I know that the Atomic Power Plant came out the year I was born (which is roughly the same time the model kit industry was born) so I assume Revell was in a "What can we do?" mode. I also know that the "Westinghouse Atomic Power Plant" did not last long on the market (failed marketing attempt?) and is, today, hideously expensive on the collectors' market. The others? Who knows. Maybe the companies that owned (and built) the actual items wanted models of them and didn't have a problem footing the bill (note that the the subjects in question are all properties of energy companies). Edited September 1, 2013 by Deano Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bodygaurd Posted September 1, 2013 Share Posted September 1, 2013 Even though most on this thread would think that the construction/heavy equipment/heavy truck niche of the modelling industry/hobby is small, there are a large number of us, and just because a ton of car modelers or military modelers say something wouldnt sell, or that theres no need for it, doesnt mean that there are people, like myself, that long for some equipment kits! there are so many things and reasons to want them like loads, loading, dioramas, and photos for trucks. just because you or a few arent interested in dump trucks because theyre "boring" doesnt mean that we dont need more dumptrucks! gonna go ahead and agree with Ben here on this one!! why must there be an arguement over what will sell and wont sell anyway when its not even produced? im sure the model manufacturers would cross that bridge when they got to it, if they did. but dont worry about it! i personally would love the equipment and such, ive seen enough 32 fords and mustangs already! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Anderson Posted September 1, 2013 Share Posted September 1, 2013 Art- This discussion is not about facts and rationality. It's about how we need to buy bulldozers as cargo for big rigs that we have no interest in. Or perhaps, that wholesalers and hobby shops should stock them, regardless. Art Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjordan2 Posted September 1, 2013 Share Posted September 1, 2013 (edited) I think the question about weird kits was closely addressed regarding professional promotional items that were turned into kits in less illuminated times, with less marketing expertise (who's going to issue a new power plant kit today? Just because it was done before, by people who probably are no longer alive, doesn't mean the same kind of thinking exists today.)I don't know if it exists outside of diecasts, but the only thing I can think of that might sell well to the general modeling public in this category is the classic gray Ford farm tractor from decades ago. Lots of variations and accessories could go with that. Edited September 1, 2013 by sjordan2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Bartrop Posted September 1, 2013 Share Posted September 1, 2013 I'm sorry but with all due respect to Art, he is NOT completely correct. There have been many, many model kits that have never seen the light of day in any major retailer such as Walmart. I find it funny that I still have not had anyone give me a proper answer as to why Revell AG chose to make the off shore oil rig, the bucket wheel excavtor and the Atomic Power plant????? And these are just off the top of my head! You were lucky to see ONE of those kits in a hobby shop but you know what, THEY WERE STILL PRODUCED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! if a completely obsure subject that not very many people have EVER EVEN SEEN, actually gets made into a full blown model kit, than how can a single one of you make me think that a bulldozer, that, unless your from another planet, you have a good idea of what they look like will never be made into one???? I thought I gave you a fairly proper one. Like the promo cars, they were probably originally commissioned as display pieces for their respective companies, and having a set of moulds already paid for, someone thought they could make some extra cash offering them in kit form. If anyone has some hard data confirming or denying this, I know I'd be interested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry P. Posted September 1, 2013 Share Posted September 1, 2013 Nope....no fair Harry, you said you were done after the last post you made!!!! Ya got me... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LokisTyro Posted September 1, 2013 Share Posted September 1, 2013 *Deleted Paragraph* I don't know if it exists outside of diecasts, but the only thing I can think of that might sell well to the general modeling public in this category is the classic gray Ford farm tractor from decades ago. Lots of variations and accessories could go with that. That would be the N-Series, I believe you're thinking of. It could be built like they build car kits now, to be driven into the dirt with alternate parts and flames on the side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckyr Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 (edited) Wow. I had no idea. I'd be willing to bet that most modelers also had no idea. Wanna know why? It's because dump trucks are boring. WRT to the Meng bulldozer; we don't know yet how well it will do. I'd say it's a safe bet that people who want to see a 1/24 bulldozer aren't jumping for joy over an armored version, in the wrong scale, with an MSRP of $90. It's because dump trucks are boring. More boring than another Corvette, another NASCAR, another 1960s Chevy, another 1932 whatever....? Now those are boring! Edited September 2, 2013 by chuckyr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistermodel Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 I 've read this with great interest because my main building preference is the so called boring truck/equipment segment .All you car guys think we're mental for suggesting something new.Almost all truck kits have been reissued so the demand is there. Art said something about only 3% of the population living on farms, but I bet 95% have heard of john deere ,cat, peterbilt or mack. The big kit makers should take a chance like Mobius did and give us something new.You car builders commenting here keep getting 32 ford's,57 chevey's and 69 camaro's shoved down your throats,but claim to know what the model world needs.Try a truck kit with 300 parts over your cars with 60 you may like the challenge and one truck can be built a 10000 different ways to keep the rivet counters talking Ummmm, AMT made two dump truck kits and added parts to one to turn it into a snowplow. ERTL made two dump kits, the S Series and the Paystar, Italeri made a Freightliner dump truck, Revell made a Kenworth dump truck.......try again. and mpc made one also,a trailer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Bartrop Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 More boring than another Corvette, another NASCAR, another 1960s Chevy, another 1932 whatever....? Now those are boring! And wouldn't it be even more boring if we all liked the same things, and all built the same models? Personally, I also like building science fiction models, and one of the rereleases from Round 2 that got me especially excited was the Lief Ericsson/UFO Mystery Ship not just because I'd lusted over it since I was a kid, but because it was one I didn't even dear to dream would come back. It too bombed when it first came out, and I figured a rerelease would be right up there with telling Ford how they need to bring back the Edsel. So, longshots do sometimes happen. On the other hand it's easy to talk about taking risks with other people's money, so if you really think there's gold to be had in model bulldozers or whatever, maybe you should take the initiative. Talk the the folks at Round 2, and find out what it would take to haul their moulds out of storage and run off a couple of thousand. It should be no problem to find enough like minded individuals willing to chip in to cover the cost. Sell them to eager hobby stores, and use the profits to order additional runs as those fly off the shelves. If it doesn't work out, then you've got your Christmas shopping taken care of, forever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Anderson Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 YOUR part in this discussion is a wasted attempt to convince me you know what all or most modelers want. Ain't gonna happen! You don't have ANY idea what all or most modelers want as I know for a fact that you have never been in one room with them and asked them if they would or would not like a kit of this n I guess the only way you will find out really for true, up or down, is to come up with the $150.000 to $200,000 to get the tooling made for whatever truck on piece of construction equipment you want kitted in 1/25 scale plastic--and go for it. If you are right--you'll be a hero to lots of model builders. If you turn out to be wrong, then while at least you will have tried, you'd likely be broke. And truthfully, I'd hate to see you, or any other entrepreneur go bust. Art Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mach1revo Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 (edited) Ben im with you 100%. I build a little of everything but would absolutely love to see a 1/25 -24 NEW tool bulldozer , tractor or any new equipment made. I would buy multiples just as i have the Lonestar , Prostar and every Round2 truck kit that has been reissued. Yes the heavy commercial builders are a niche group but , it is a group that is growing every day and the kit makers see this. I was at a IPMS show here in Florida and we had almost 30 heavy trucks in the class. The had to move us 3 times during registration because of how many showed. Heck a FARM TRACTOR won the IPMS nationals Best in Show. People are starting to notice for sure. Regarding the Meng dozer I am wanting to get that kit soon as it hits our shores as well. It may be the wrong scale to some but it will look great on my Hobby Boss HET M1070 and trailer kit. I think some of you guys get a little closed minded when it comes to what to build. I mean how many times can you build a 32 ford. Probably a million different ways but its still a 32 ford. Try a kit outside your comfort zone. Try something you know nothing about! Im sure you will pick up some new techniques along the way. This is a great hobby and alot of the NON car stuff is amazing. Btw I like the 32 Ford. I was just using it as an example...LOL Edited September 2, 2013 by Mach1revo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2000-cvpi Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 Alright, everybody move along. Nothing to see here. Ben called in other truckers for backup. Dozer kits are the wave of the future. Buy lots of CAT yellow and John Deere green paint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mach1revo Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 (edited) Alright, everybody move along. Nothing to see here. Ben called in other truckers for backup. Dozer kits are the wave of the future. Buy lots of CAT yellow and John Deere green paint. Wow i guess its too much to ask for something new in a genre you dont (clearly) like. Ben didnt need to "rally" for backup. Us heavy equipment builders show interest and it bothers you? Im not sure I understand your disdain for a new kit for a group of dedicated modelers. Are you afraid they will melt all the general lees to supply the plastic demands of a Cat bulldozer? Maybe Revell will not reissue the 32 ford for the umpteenth time bringing the hot rod modelers to their knees? Yes i am being tongue in cheek but just making a point. What impact does it have to you? Im glad car guys (me included) have had great kits like the Chrysler 300 and 50 Olds coupe tooled. Truck builders just want the same consideration! Edited September 2, 2013 by Mach1revo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2000-cvpi Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 (edited) Wow i guess its too much to ask for something new in a genre you dont (clearly) like. Ben didnt need to "rally" for backup. Us heavy equipment builders show interest and it bothers you? Im not sure I understand your disdain for a new kit for a group of dedicated modelers. Are you afraid they will melt all the general lees to supply the plastic demands of a Cat bulldozer? Maybe Revell will not reissue the 32 ford for the umpteenth time bringing the hot rod modelers to their knees? Yes i am being tongue in cheek but just making a point. What impact does it have to you? Im glad car guys (me included) have had great kits like the Chrysler 300 and 50 Olds coupe tooled. Truck builders just want the same consideration! Lighten up Francis, it was just a joke. Nothing more than that. Edited September 2, 2013 by 2000-cvpi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistermodel Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 Alright, everybody move along. Nothing to see here. Ben called in other truckers for backup. Dozer kits are the wave of the future. Buy lots of CAT yellow and John Deere green paint. what are you the traffic cop?4 truck builders that happen to be members of the same forum you are chimed in and your telling every one to move along. I guess if someone doesn't agree or would like to see something different doesn't get to voice an opinion in your world. just saying Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mach1revo Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 Lighten up Francis, it was just a joke. Nothing more than that. I guess my blatant sarcasm was missed. Simply making point. Nothing more than that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 Alright, everybody move along. Nothing to see here. Ben called in other truckers for backup. Dozer kits are the wave of the future. Buy lots of CAT yellow and John Deere green paint. Actually, you can buy one can of each and do several kits! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2000-cvpi Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 what are you the traffic cop?4 truck builders that happen to be members of the same forum you are chimed in and your telling every one to move along. I guess if someone doesn't agree or would like to see something different doesn't get to voice an opinion in your world. just saying It was a joke. based on the fact this thread has more than jumped the shark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackinac359 Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 I must add to this discussion. I have stopped at countless hobby shops in my travels, always looking for truck kits. I've lost count on the times shop workers (maybe owners?) that I've talked to who say "truck kits don't sell." What is on their shelves? European style trucks and trailers - not the American offerings. Of course they don't sell - the market for Euro trucks is non-existant in north America. I watched one shop sit on the same high-dollar European cabover kit for over 2 years while the AMT, Revell-Monogram and the Italeri Peterbilt and Freightliners sold around it. Wrong product, wrong market. Distributors don't realize or understand this specific market and you cannot convince me otherwise. To them (and the majority of shop operators) a truck is a truck is a truck (with pickups and fire appuratus lumped with trucks). Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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