Engine sources

[Ace-Garageguy]

  On 11/18/2013 at 2:40 PM, buffalobill said:

re: the Ardun cylinder heads for the flathead Ford V8 in Revell's '50 Ford F-1 pickup - the rocker-covers/heads in the first release of that kit are inaccurate

Interesting. I don't have any real Ardun parts available at the moment to compare to...what exactly are the inaccuracies on the first release of the F-1 kit?

[Casey]

  On 11/18/2013 at 7:15 AM, zenrat said:

AMT '70 Chevy Monte Carlo has a stock 454 Big Block Chevy with absolutely no tuning parts.

This kit has some really nice stock BBC exhaust manifolds, too. I also like the BBC found in the Revell '65 Chevelle Z-16 kit, and it's all stock, too.

The Monogram/Revell '93 Chevy S-10/Syclone kit includes a nice 4.3L V-6 with a deep sump oil pan, two intake options (TBI or carbureted), and a 700R4 trans.

The previously mentioned I-6 in the AMT '60 Chevy Pickup kit is nice, as is the I-6 in the Revell '41 Chevy Pickup.

I really like the Ford V8 (not even sure of the displacement) found in the Revell Matt & Debbie Hay Pro Street T-Bird and Lincoln LSC kits, but it doesn't have a normal intake setup (but does have dual front mounted blowers). The Ford Motorsport valve covers are very nice and all the little engine bits are nicely detailed, too, and it includes a C4 or C6 auto trans.

[Ace-Garageguy]

There are TWO Pontiac "Trophy 4" 4-cylinder Tempest engines in the Mickey Thompson Attempt I kit by Revell. These engines were, essentially one cylinder bank and the bottom end of a 389 V8. The engines in the kit have interesting side-mounted GMC 3-71 blowers, and would make unusual powerplants for smaller rods. As the basic engines, in reality, share many 389 V8 components, a conversion to stock appearance is quite feasible.

Edited November 18, 2013 by Ace-Garageguy

[Ford guy]

The engine that Casey mentioned that's in the Matt and Debbie Hay T-bird is a 351 Windsor. It's a 1/25 scale kit, you can file down a 1/24 scale 302/289 manifold to fit it. It is a nice Pro Street engine.

More Ford model kits that are worth buying for the engines are:

Revell '69 Talladega, 428 Cobra Jet 1/24

Revell '69 Shelby, 428 Cobra Jet 1/25

Revell '70 Torino/Cobra, 429 Cobra Jet 1/25

Revell '70 Mustang Mach I, 351 Cleveland 1/24

Revell '70 Mustang Boss 302, Boss 302 1/24

AMT '69 Cougar, Boss 302 1/25

AMT '67 Mustang, 289 1/25

I have several of these kits on hand, most without engines!

[Ace-Garageguy]

Chevy "Stovebolt" hot-rod sixes:

The AMT '51 Chevys have okay inline sixes, but they also have some interesting speed equipment.

The '51 BelAir hardtop has an unusual Fisher crossflow head and chrome valve-cover, and what appears to be 6-port fuel injection.

The '51 Fleetline and BelAir convertible have the same basic engine, but a dual-carb setup for the stock head, and a nice custom finned valve cover.

The Galaxie '46-'48 Chevy Aerosedan has a much better Stovebolt, and also includes optional Wayne (Horning) valve cover, side cover, and a 3X1bbl Edelbrock manifold with Stromberg carbs.

Edited November 18, 2013 by Ace-Garageguy

[Ramcharger]

One of the T-Bucket kits has a M-E-L Ford type motor in it. Anyone know which one?

[MachinistMark]

amt double t kit, isn't it? I know it has a Lincoln engine

[Longbox55]

  On 11/18/2013 at 1:16 AM, kataranga said:

The later-tool AMT 1960 Chevrolet C10 is a good source for a 6 cylinder engine that can be tweaked for many different applications. The Trumpeter Novas as well, but they're getting pretty pricey for just a donor.

  On 11/18/2013 at 4:26 PM, Ace-Garageguy said:

Chevy "Stovebolt" hot-rod sixes:

The AMT '51 Chevys have okay inline sixes, but they also have some interesting speed equipment.

The '51 BelAir hardtop has an unusual Fisher crossflow head and chrome valve-cover, and what appears to be 6-port fuel injection.

The '51 Fleetline and BelAir convertible have the same basic engine, but a dual-carb setup for the stock head, and a nice custom finned valve cover.

The Galaxie '46-'48 Chevy Aerosedan has a much better Stovebolt, and also includes optional Wayne (Horning) valve cover, side cover, and a 3X1bbl Edelbrock manifold with Stromberg carbs.

A bit of additional info on where what Stovebolt 6 is appropriate;

The AMT '51 Chevy and Galaxy engines, along with the similar engines found in the AMT '50 3100 and AMT '37 Chevies are the early Low Pressure/High Pump 216 blocks, which ran from '37-'52 (some '53s had them, too).

The AMT and Monogram '53 Corvette and the Monogram '53 Bel Air both have the early version of the Full Pressure/High Pump 235, which was used with Powerglide cars only in '53, and all Chevrolets in '54, as well as some early '55 Corvettes (6-25, depending on source) and the First Series trucks ('54 carryover body).

The AMT '60 Chevrolet truck has the High Pressure/Low Pump 235, which would be correct for any 235/261 from '55-'62 in both cars and trucks. It would also be correct for an early '63 1/2 or 3/4 ton 4x4.

The Trumpeter Nova engine covers the '63-'84 194/230/250 engines, and with a little alteration, could be made to pass for the 292.

To my knowledge, there isn't a correct scale replica of either version Low Pressure/High Pump 235, which was used in Chevrolet 1.5 ton trucks, as well as Powerglide cars '50-'52, as well as manual transmission cars in '53.

[Danny Lectro]

I have a Fujimi 1/24 Nissan 240z that comes with a really nice single cam straight six. Their Z432 version has a twin cam straight six. Even though those kits come with engines, the hoods are molded closed and the engine bays have zero detail. I will build the car curbside and save the engine for a weirdo hot rod or rat rod.

[jbwelda]

just a suggestion: any list to come out of this ought to be sorted by ENGINE not model kit, so one could look up a particular engine and see all the options right there, and the various kits containing them. would be very handy, and I think this thread is a very interesting and potentially useful one.

so just a bit off topic maybe but anyone want to set me straight on what the best (as in closest to actual motor in the details) Buick nailhead mill is? I am assuming probably AMTs 66 Rivera? I see it listed in the original list there with some complementary comments, but wondering if there are better available?

[Casey]

  On 11/19/2013 at 6:24 AM, jbwelda said:

so just a bit off topic maybe but anyone want to set me straight on what the best (as in closest to actual motor in the details) Buick nailhead mill is? I am assuming probably AMTs 66 Rivera? I see it listed in the original list there with some complementary comments, but wondering if there are better available?

http://www.modelcarsmag.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=81089&hl=nailhead

[buffalobill]

The '50 Ford F1 pickup kit I referred to in post #25 above was initially released under the Monogram banner/not Revell, as I indicated. It's the Custom version of Monogram's kit has the incorrect Ardun set up, but Revell has thankfully corrected it in their most recent release(s).

As for what was not right re: the Monogram parts - unfortunately I no longer have that particular kit to refer to, but I do recall that it had only 3 exhaust ports on each head, but the 1:1 Ardun heads had 4 equally spaced exhaust ports (and Revell's is correct). fyi - the original 3 exhaust ports on the flathead block had block off plates installed when an Ardun conversion was done. Also, the location of the plugs on Monogram's release were incorrect - but, I'm relying on my memory for that. The exhaust manifolds/headers in Monogram's release were also incorrect, as they only had 3 tubes per head.

If I am able to find any photos of Monogram's Ardun I'll be able to comment further. . .But, for simplicity, Revell's latest release of the F1 has the Ardun-equipped Ford V8 that one should use. . .

And, as an aside - Ardun also manufactured a very small quantity of Ardun ohv 'hemi' head conversion heads for the Ford V8-60 engine. I'm unaware of any Ardun heads for the V8-60, however, The V8-60 engine was much smaller externally than the V8-85 engine. A nice V8-60 is found in Revell's midget racer. And, the Offy in the other release of Revell's midget is equally well executed.

Edited November 19, 2013 by buffalobill

[Ace-Garageguy]

  On 11/19/2013 at 2:40 AM, MachinistMark said:

amt double t kit, isn't it? I know it has a Lincoln engine (ASKING ABOUT MEL ENGINE)

Here's some research from one of my long term builds...

The engine I was wanting to use was the Lincoln 368, a Y-block design, which ended production in 1957. A Stroppe-prepared one was in the Mercury Mermaid, and was in large part the inspiration for this build. It seems that in reality, some of the Mermaid engines were sold off in SoCal when the car was parted out. The valve covers are very distinctive, and came on '56 -'57 Continentals. These are the valve covers presented in the double T kits.

The T kits have the valve covers right for a Continental Y-block, but the rest of the engines are wrong.

EDIT: I was corrected by rasafyyf (Raymond Glen Campbell) concerning my WRONG assertion that the first-release heads in the double-t kits were FE-looking (as shown in the first 2 photos below). It appears that the kit I had based that statement on, which I'd bought open, had some extra FE-looking heads in it, molded in the same black as the rest of the model. After checking two other releases of the double-T I have on the shelf, it appears that the heads on the early-release "Lincoln" engine are for an MEL.

And the later release looks like an MEL also, sort of, going by the plug location (which is laid out differently from the FE). The FE has all the plugs located inboard of the exhaust ports, like this.

And this is an MEL...different plug arrangement.

If you look at the kit engines, you'll see what I mean. The 368 Y-block Lincoln has the plugs located below the headers, and the wires come in from the bottom, even on the production motors. The exhaust ports are evenly spaced, like the FE and MEL, but centered relative to the valve covers, NOT like the FE and MEL. So the "Lincoln" engine in the T kit is a sort-of MEL , depending on which release you have, but with Y-block Continental valve covers (which won't bolt to a MEL).

Edited November 20, 2013 by Ace-Garageguy

[Ace-Garageguy]

  On 11/19/2013 at 6:33 AM, buffalobill said:

I'm unaware of any Ardun heads for the V8-60, however, The V8-60 engine was much smaller externally than the V8-85 engine.

Just for the record, Ardun actually did manufacture heads for the V8-60 as well. An original set lives on the engine of this year's Brizio-built AMBR winner.

Edited November 19, 2013 by Ace-Garageguy

[buffalobill]

You're absolutely correct, and I had meant to write that "I'm unaware of any Ardun heads for the V8-60 done in 1/25 scale." It was late, I was tired, and that's all the excuses I can offer up this morning. lol

Another source for Ardun heads for the larger V8-85 series of flathead Fords was offered some time ago by Mark Gustafson as part of his 'Putty Throwe'r line of parts. It was cast in white metal alloy and was well done, although not quite as crisply detailed as Rep & Min of MD's Ardun pieces.

re: the Brisio buit AMBR winning track T - it represents a return (hopefully) to honoring tasteful/not over-the-top show winning hot rods. It's drop dead perfect, and is in so many ways, similar in concept to the Niekamp '29 A that won the very first AMBR event years ago. It's perhaps the finest car that Brizio has ever built, in my opinion. . .

[Tom Geiger]

  On 11/19/2013 at 3:10 AM, Longbox55 said:

The AMT '60 Chevrolet truck has the High Pressure/Low Pump 235, which would be correct for any 235/261 from '55-'62 in both cars and trucks. It would also be correct for an early '63 1/2 or 3/4 ton 4x4.

Great info! I just wanted to add that the cars of this era had an air cleaner that put the element down next to the carb. These have never been available in scale, but Kitchen Table Resins (Ken Kitchen) makes the styles needed for the above year cars.

[jbwelda]

well, uh, thanks, I guess, casey for that link. Maybe I am deluded here but I thought this thread was supposed to be a listing of motors...not a listing of links to other threads about motors. I would appreciate it if someone could summarize sources for the nailhead here along with some chat about whats good and not so good about each (like for instance that darn hole in the block...unacceptable and really too much work to fix if a better is available and I do believe they are...

and for this to be any darn good at all it HAS to be sorted by engine, not kit, or it fails as any kind of valid usable reference material.

but so goes life on MCM board I guess.

[Ace-Garageguy]

  On 11/19/2013 at 4:47 PM, jbwelda said:

well, uh, thanks, I guess, casey for that link. Maybe I am deluded here but I thought this thread was supposed to be a listing of motors...not a listing of links to other threads about motors. I would appreciate it if someone could summarize sources for the nailhead here along with some chat about whats good and not so good about each (like for instance that darn hole in the block...unacceptable and really too much work to fix if a better is available and I do believe they are...

but so goes life on MCM board I guess.

Huh? The thread Casey linked to is an exhaustive listing of ALL the nailheads out there with their strengths and weaknesses. It's pretty easy to read all about them, so why bother to re-post all of that information over on THIS thread?? What am I missing??

[rasafyff]

  On 11/19/2013 at 1:22 PM, Ace-Garageguy said:

Here's some research from one of my long term builds...

The engine I was wanting to use was the Lincoln 368, a Y-block design, which ended production in 1957. A Stroppe-prepared one was in the Mercury Mermaid, and was in large part the inspiration for this build. It seems that in reality, some of the Mermaid engines were sold off in SoCal when the car was parted out. The valve covers are very distinctive, and came on '56 -'57 Continentals. These are the valve covers presented in the double T kits.

The T kits have the valve covers right for a Continental Y-block, but the rest of the engines are wrong. The original release looks like an FE derived engine, judging from the exhaust port configuration and location

And the later release looks like an MEL ( Merc, Edsel, Lincoln ) engine, sort of, going by the plug location (which is laid out differently from the FE). The FE has all the plugs located inboard of the exhaust ports, like this.

And this is an MEL...different plug arrangement.

If you look at the kit engines, you'll see what I mean. The 368 Y-block Lincoln has the plugs located below the headers, and the wires come in from the bottom, even on the production motors. The exhaust ports are evenly spaced, like the FE and MEL, but centered relative to the valve covers, NOT like the FE and MEL. So the "Lincoln" engine in the T kit is a sort-of FE/MEL , depending on which release you have, but with Y-block Continental valve covers (which won't bolt to either a FE or MEL).

If you look at both sets of heads in the 25 T.Neither set of heads matches the head in your third photo.Both sets of heads have the same exhaust port/spark plug arrangement.Exhaust port/plug,exhaust port/plug,exhaust port/plug,exhaust port/plug.

The head in your third photo shows exhaust port/plug,exhaust port/plug,plug/exhaust port,plug/exhaust port.And the ports are angled towards the center of the head.

Both sets of heads in the 25 T have straight exhaust ports.

I think AMT added the second set of heads for the six-carb intake and the better supercharger intake.

[rasafyff]

How about the 427s in the Revell 64 Thunderbolt and the AMT 66 Fairlane.The 66 Fairlane GT/GTA has the 390 with the choice of auto or 4-speed transmissions.

[Ace-Garageguy]

  On 11/19/2013 at 11:37 PM, rasafyff said:

If you look at both sets of heads in the 25 T.Neither set of heads matches the head in your third photo.Both sets of heads have the same exhaust port/spark plug arrangement.Exhaust port/plug,exhaust port/plug,exhaust port/plug,exhaust port/plug.

The head in your third photo shows exhaust port/plug,exhaust port/plug,plug/exhaust port,plug/exhaust port.And the ports are angled towards the center of the head.

Both sets of heads in the 25 T have straight exhaust ports.

I think AMT added the second set of heads for the six-carb intake and the better supercharger intake.

Good call...looks like I was wrong. I went back and looked at the kit I'd bought open, the one I'd based those statements on (which was molded in black and had, apparently, some extra black FE-looking heads in it...along with some other extra parts).

I just checked 2 more versions of the double-T kit on the shelf, one original and one repop, and you're right...the kit heads appear to be MEL. Still, the Continental cast-alloy valve covers are wrong for the "Lincoln" engine in the kit.

My apologies for providing incorrect information.

And thank you rasafyff, for getting it right.

Edited November 20, 2013 by Ace-Garageguy

[RadialDragon]

  On 11/19/2013 at 4:47 PM, jbwelda said:

well, uh, thanks, I guess, casey for that link. Maybe I am deluded here but I thought this thread was supposed to be a listing of motors...not a listing of links to other threads about motors. I would appreciate it if someone could summarize sources for the nailhead here along with some chat about whats good and not so good about each (like for instance that darn hole in the block...unacceptable and really too much work to fix if a better is available and I do believe they are...

and for this to be any darn good at all it HAS to be sorted by engine, not kit, or it fails as any kind of valid usable reference material.

but so goes life on MCM board I guess.

The point of this thread was to post Kits that we could get good quality 1/25 and 1/24 motors from. Basically this is all about knowing where you can find certain motors etc..

[Ramcharger]

Thanks, Bill, for all of the fantastic info on the scale MEL motors

[zenrat]

  On 11/20/2013 at 1:33 AM, RadialDragon said:

The point of this thread was to post Kits that we could get good quality 1/25 and 1/24 motors from. Basically this is all about knowing where you can find certain motors etc..

So if you are looking for a specific engine you need a list sorted by engine not by kit or by subject.

Surely it is more likely that some one will think "where can I get..." than they'll think "I wonder what engines that kit comes with..."?

[Kit Basher]

The AMT Scout for an International V8. I suspect most of you don't care about it, but I do. (See my avatar)