Harry P. Posted February 22, 2014 Posted February 22, 2014 I just started building a new kit today, and as I always do, before I start building I gather up all sorts of reference photos so that my model's details will be accurate. The kit I'm working on, I discovered from the reference photos I found, has all sorts of mistakes... not anything due to any limitations of the injection-molding process, nothing to do with any technical issues or engineering constraints... just plain old, flat out mistakes. Things that could have been accurate if only the kit designers had done even the slightest bit of homework before tooling up the kit. So now I'm spending time re-engineering the kit and fixing all of the obvious mistakes the kit designers made. My question is this: Why are there so many obvious mistakes? Again, nothing to do with the limitations or requirements of injection molding, just stupid, basic, obvious mistakes. I am not a model kit designer, yet I found these mistakes easily. Why did the people who designed the kit let so many mistakes make it through to production? I know, "there will never be a perfect kit," blah blah blah... but I'm not talking about splitting hairs here. The amount of basic, obvious and completely avoidable mistakes in this kit makes me wonder...
Cato Posted February 22, 2014 Posted February 22, 2014 X2 brother. And especially with digital scanning and now 3D printing looming. That 1/12 GT-350 is a perfect (but older) example. No 2 panels match the 1:1.
Ramfins59 Posted February 22, 2014 Posted February 22, 2014 Dare I ask what kit this is..?? Obviously the manufacturer and/or designer did not do their due diligence/homework before putting the kit into production. As you say, there really is no excuse for this.
High octane Posted February 22, 2014 Posted February 22, 2014 A really good fix for your problem Harry is to pack up the kit and donate it to your local Boy Scout Troop. I'm sure there will be some happy young man in that troop that would be able to build it and be grateful to you.
LoneWolf15 Posted February 22, 2014 Posted February 22, 2014 I agree ! Not that these about to be mentioned are exactly your cup of tea .... What comes to my mind ? Revell's new ' 57 Ford ! I sanded mold lines off of every single piece . I had to strip the chrome , every single piece had mold lines along with blobbed on chrome work . All 4 kits that I purchased were in this condition ! I opened two of the ' 62 Vette Gassers , same conditions exist ! These are the new releases , no excuse for these conditions to exist . Reading through several different posts / threads as of late , it seems that the new Merc Woodie kit has the same chrome issues ..... So tell me , what can we do to rectify the situation ?
Harry P. Posted February 22, 2014 Author Posted February 22, 2014 A really good fix for your problem Harry is to pack up the kit and donate it to your local Boy Scout Troop. I'm sure there will be some happy young man in that troop that would be able to build it and be grateful to you. Too late. I've already started reworking things. That's why I started to wonder why it is that I am now doing the work that the kit designers were paid to do... but didn't.
mikemodeler Posted February 22, 2014 Posted February 22, 2014 C'mon Harry, you should know by know that Palmer kits need a little work to be correct! I agree, having to remove mold line and injection marks on new kits shouldn't be a long process given the modern tooling processes.
slusher Posted February 22, 2014 Posted February 22, 2014 I remember having a kit of sorts and was talking about on another forum and was told they was for kids and not intended to be perfect. Kit has to be real bad when I notice it. The topic brought this to mind no offence Harry...
Harry P. Posted February 22, 2014 Author Posted February 22, 2014 I agree, having to remove mold line and injection marks on new kits shouldn't be a long process given the modern tooling processes. That's not what I mean. I'm not talking about issues connected to the physical process of injection molding, like sink marks and mold seams. I'm talking about decisions made by the people who tool up the kits. For example... if the real car has a square widget, why is the widget on the model kit round? That sort of mistake. Mistakes made in design/production, not things inherent in the manufacturing process.
Modelmartin Posted February 22, 2014 Posted February 22, 2014 You know, Harry, Some people out there are just out to make money. "Good enough" is their motto. Why sweat the details and delay the onset of sales just to get some details corrected. That is for hobbyists or enthusiasts, not businessmen! Seriously though, you need to check out some of the 60s, 70s Heller kits. They had accurate bodies but they just guessed at what type of details were under the skin. Sometimes honest mistakes are made. Maybe the car they patterned the kit after was a hermaphrodite of some sort. It has happened!
Cato Posted February 22, 2014 Posted February 22, 2014 So tell me , what can we do to rectify the situation ? Stop buying Revell's junk toy kits and buy Asian and German imports. I know, they don't make Mercs and pick-ups and such. But Revell would get a message if adults stopped buying their trash. 'Cause kids sure aren't. Moebius makes a much more serious effort to get the look right and engineer well. I'd gladly sand seams and remove flash if I started with a kit that looked exactly like it's 1:1 in shape, proportion and mechanical details. That Mustang LX is another poor example where roof has to be hacked and repositioned, rockers, trunk...arrrgh. That's what Harry's talking about.
Tom Geiger Posted February 22, 2014 Posted February 22, 2014 Hmmm... maybe if I chopped a few inches outta the roof, widened the body a bit.... Me thinks maybe we take our toy cars a bit too seriously!
Dennis Lacy Posted February 22, 2014 Posted February 22, 2014 My question is this: Why are there so many obvious mistakes? Again, nothing to do with the limitations or requirements of injection molding, just stupid, basic, obvious mistakes. They probably realized YOU were going to buy the kit so they did it wrong just to piss you off.
george 53 Posted February 22, 2014 Posted February 22, 2014 (edited) Tom I can't BELIEVE someone ELSE agrees with me! It's PLASTIC! It DON'T mean the END of the world as WE know it, just cas theres something we seem to feel is wrong with it! TOO many guys act like these toys ARE THEIR LIVES!!! Yeesh, getta grip! They ARE only toys . WE make them to ENTERTAIN ourselves. If someones life REVOLVES around model cars, I DO pity them, cas SOMEONES got their priorities VERY confused! I AGREE TOTALLY with what you said!!!!! Hmmm... maybe if I chopped a few inches outta the roof, widened the body a bit.... Me thinks maybe we take our toy cars a bit too seriously! Edited February 22, 2014 by george 53
Dennis Lacy Posted February 22, 2014 Posted February 22, 2014 (edited) Tom I can't BELIEVE someone ELSE agrees with me! It's PLASTIC! It DON'T mean the END of the world as WE know it, just cas theres something we seem to feel is wrong with it! TOO many guys act like these toys ARE THEIR LIVES!!! Yeesh, getta grip! They ARE only toys . WE make them to ENTERTAIN ourselves. If someones life REVOLVES around model cars, I DO pity them, cas SOMEONES got their priorities VERY confused! I AGREE TOTALLY with what you said!!!!! This reminded of hanging out at a friends house back in high school. He had found a YoYo and was trying to do "tricks" with it. His Dad walked into the room, watched a minute, then asked his son, "Can you do the trick that gets you laid." My friend replied, "What trick is that?" Dad replied, "Exactly." Priorities... Edited February 22, 2014 by Dennis Lacy
Deano Posted February 22, 2014 Posted February 22, 2014 OK, Harry, (boy, am I gonna get in trouble here) are you going to tell us what the kit is or is this just drama for drama's sake? Is it a kit that almost everyone knows is a mess or is it something we expect great things from? Why so vague?
Tom Geiger Posted February 22, 2014 Posted February 22, 2014 Harry, you started this fire, without giving us any information on which kit. The answer lies in the circumstances that the kit was created. And without being able to tie it to an era, the intended audience and the manufacturer, we cannot give you an answer. Not that I think you actually wanted a specific answer. Tom I can't BELIEVE someone ELSE agrees with me! It's PLASTIC! It DON'T mean the END of the world as WE know it, just cas theres something we seem to feel is wrong with it! George, I posted the Premier Falcon tongue in cheek just to tone it down a bit. When I first got into model cars I made the mistake of listening to all the flack about how horrible all the new kits were. I was so concerned that every model I did had to be absolutely perfect and show quality. I lost a lot of years of fun building worrying about all this stuff, that really doesn't matter in the grand scheme. Now, if a model looks good to me, good enough. I'm not going out there to find problems with a kit. Revell Mustang? Good enuf for my shelf. Quite frankly I don't even see the many issues these guys dream up. And nobody is gonna notice that in my case of 50 finished models. I have a lot more fun these days. Stop buying Revell's junk toy kits and buy Asian and German imports. I know, they don't make Mercs and pick-ups and such. But Revell would get a message if adults stopped buying their trash. That Mustang LX is another poor example where roof has to be hacked and repositioned, rockers, trunk...arrrgh. That's what Harry's talking about. What the heck??? I would have ignored this post except for the major slam on Revell, who is doing a pretty good job of putting out new subjects that we all are glad to get. I look at whoever Mr Cato may be and wonder what his credentials are? Looking at his posting history, he's contributed no in progress builds, no photos that exhibit that his work is so good that it demands perfect models from Revell, and no photos of finished models at all. In short you haven't contributed anything positive or constructive, so I do take offense to your rant.
bobthehobbyguy Posted February 22, 2014 Posted February 22, 2014 My guess is that the designer either doesn't care or isn't given enough time to get the job done right. It not models that get shipped out before they should be - software for example. I remember when the amt 67 nova cameout it was missing some of the lines around the trim for the rear window along with some other obvious flaws. bobthehobbyguy
Art Anderson Posted February 22, 2014 Posted February 22, 2014 I just started building a new kit today, and as I always do, before I start building I gather up all sorts of reference photos so that my model's details will be accurate. The kit I'm working on, I discovered from the reference photos I found, has all sorts of mistakes... not anything due to any limitations of the injection-molding process, nothing to do with any technical issues or engineering constraints... just plain old, flat out mistakes. Things that could have been accurate if only the kit designers had done even the slightest bit of homework before tooling up the kit. So now I'm spending time re-engineering the kit and fixing all of the obvious mistakes the kit designers made. My question is this: Why are there so many obvious mistakes? Again, nothing to do with the limitations or requirements of injection molding, just stupid, basic, obvious mistakes. I am not a model kit designer, yet I found these mistakes easily. Why did the people who designed the kit let so many mistakes make it through to production? I know, "there will never be a perfect kit," blah blah blah... but I'm not talking about splitting hairs here. The amount of basic, obvious and completely avoidable mistakes in this kit makes me wonder... Harry, To make such a blanket statement without even deigning to say just what kit it is that twisted your crank? I'd have thought you'd be more specific? Art
Custom Hearse Posted February 22, 2014 Posted February 22, 2014 Moebius makes a much more serious effort to get the look right and engineer well. I'm working on a Moebius International ProStar, and so far, I've had to correct the door windows, a couple panel lines that are not on the actual truck, filled in 2 marker lights on the body, and completely redo the front bumper. I have to agree with Harry that it would be a lot more enjoyable if the kit was correctly designed to match the vehicle we try to model. Even though I've had to make the corrections on this kit, I'm still excited to build a copy of the last truck I ever got to drive...
ToyLvr Posted February 22, 2014 Posted February 22, 2014 I figure Harry finally got around to building the "Premier" Corvair Rampside pickup truck kit.....
Art Anderson Posted February 22, 2014 Posted February 22, 2014 X2 brother. And especially with digital scanning and now 3D printing looming. That 1/12 GT-350 is a perfect (but older) example. No 2 panels match the 1:1. I'm working on a Moebius International ProStar, and so far, I've had to correct the door windows, a couple panel lines that are not on the actual truck, filled in 2 marker lights on the body, and completely redo the front bumper. I have to agree with Harry that it would be a lot more enjoyable if the kit was correctly designed to match the vehicle we try to model. Even though I've had to make the corrections on this kit, I'm still excited to build a copy of the last truck I ever got to drive... And yet, the International Prostar kit (just as with its predecessor Lonestar!) was created with a TON of information, including CAD files, from Navistar. Art
niteowl7710 Posted February 22, 2014 Posted February 22, 2014 I'm working on a Moebius International ProStar, and so far, I've had to correct the door windows, a couple panel lines that are not on the actual truck, filled in 2 marker lights on the body, and completely redo the front bumper. I have to agree with Harry that it would be a lot more enjoyable if the kit was correctly designed to match the vehicle we try to model. Even though I've had to make the corrections on this kit, I'm still excited to build a copy of the last truck I ever got to drive... You had to redo the bumper because the bumper that's in the kit is the updated one from the 2013+ ProStars, you (and I alike) both drove earlier ones with the original bumper. Beyond including TWO bumpers in the kit, Moebius elected to make the newer truck over the older one. At least it's not the half old-half new bumper that it was in the last round of tooling shots before the kit was released. Tom I can't BELIEVE someone ELSE agrees with me! It's PLASTIC! It DON'T mean the END of the world as WE know it, just cas theres something we seem to feel is wrong with it! TOO many guys act like these toys ARE THEIR LIVES!!! Yeesh, getta grip! They ARE only toys . WE make them to ENTERTAIN ourselves. If someones life REVOLVES around model cars, I DO pity them, cas SOMEONES got their priorities VERY confused! I AGREE TOTALLY with what you said!!!!! And this attitude is why we get $25 misshapen lumps that "look good enough for the shelf I run with", and the IPMS crowd gets $100, 667 part armored vehicles in a smaller scale with a ridiculously robust aftermarket support. Because automotive modelers are seen as over-grown temperamental children who play with their TOYS, whereas the IPMS crowd is trying to REPLICATE something. Priorities are important, blah blah blah, but acting like fixing a bunch of things that SHOULDN'T have been wrong with a kit had anyone taken 60 seconds just to glance at what was going on before punching the "MOLD" button is in any way, shape, or form "entertaining" is ridiculous. I accept there is an entry level amount of work to clean up the "flaws" that are inherent with injecting molding - mold lines, flash, seams, etc - but raising roofs, creating new glass because of that, having to file off exaggerated fender flares and reshape character lines...
niteowl7710 Posted February 22, 2014 Posted February 22, 2014 What the heck??? I would have ignored this post except for the major slam on Revell, who is doing a pretty good job of putting out new subjects that we all are glad to get. I look at whoever Mr Cato may be and wonder what his credentials are? Looking at his posting history, he's contributed no in progress builds, no photos that exhibit that his work is so good that it demands perfect models from Revell, and no photos of finished models at all. In short you haven't contributed anything positive or constructive, so I do take offense to your rant. Come on Tom, you're better than resorting to the tired hack "show me proof" red herring subject change. You can disagree vehemently with the opinion, but that's no reason to attack the opinion holder themselves because they choose not to share the work here (of all places). You take offense to it? Man talk about priorities...
martinfan5 Posted February 22, 2014 Posted February 22, 2014 (edited) So, after reading some of the replies, we as "paying" customers should be just happy to have "model kits" and should be thankful that the model companys are producing model kits?, is that my understanding? So I ask you this, the ones that feel that we should bend over and take it up the rear end with half arsed inaccurate mode kits, would be ok if you bought a house that was half arsed built?, would you be ok with buying a car that was half arsed built? would you be ok ordering a meal and getting it halfed arsed cook?, why should we as paying customers accept model kits that are inaccurate when we live in the year 2014 , when model kits were more accurate two/three decades ago vs what we are getting now, again, why should we ? I am not asking for perfect model kits, but sheesh, a little bit more effort on the "their" part would be nice, I mean when you make a stock version of a car with a custom chopped roof, something is wrong with that, and there is no excuse for that, and it clearly shows that its all about the bottom line and to heck with the customers and giving them accurate kits Disclaimer, I am talking about all model kit companys Edited February 22, 2014 by martinfan5
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