For Bugatti Atlantic fans

[sjordan2]

I know there are only a few of us who care about this, but did anyone notice in the Winter Olympics coverage, regarding the Ralph Lauren commercials, that the images of his black Bugatti Atlantic showed the car for the first time with chrome wire wheels and not the black dish wheel covers? Stunning.

Edited February 26, 2014 by sjordan2

[DonW]

Bugatti never used chrome. Fabulous car, but chrome is wrong!

[sjordan2]

Well, the Lauren car is the original Pope car, which has been repainted and refitted multiple times in its history. I think the way this works, especially with this car, is that each subsequent owner can re-do it to his own desire. Therefore, I don't see any reason why a current owner can't re-do it to his own want. I think this goes for any classic car.

Edited February 26, 2014 by sjordan2

[Peter Lombardo]

Personally, I think "Original" is over-rated...I am 100% with Skip on this point.........I want a car that represents what I want, not what some snob-writer thinks I should want......chrome wire wheels always look better.

[Quick GMC]

Personally, I think "Original" is over-rated...I am 100% with Skip on this point.........I want a car that represents what I want, not what some snob-writer thinks I should want......chrome wire wheels always look better.

I agree, to a point. You should be able to customize without reducing the value, but sometimes people go overboard.

[Cato]

Loren's taste in his cars' selection and presentation is beyond reproach.

I do agree that some owners have less good taste and can not only de-value a subject but just make it look dumb.

The current rage in restored Cobras (not so much replicas) is the black wheel treatment. Many are buying aluminum Trigos (replicas of mag Halibrands) and 'murdering' them black-like the ricers do. Bruce Canepa seems to have started this a couple of years ago and many that his shop restores or fluffs- up leave with them.

Not what purists dream of.

[1930fordpickup]

Your car, your taste, your money. Yes Skip that car was looking sweet with the chrome wheels.

That being said. If you are going to drive a car it makes no difference what wheels you put on it. If you are going to show it as a restored car it should have the correct wheels.

Edited February 27, 2014 by 1930fordpickup

[Modelmartin]

There were only three Atlantics built. I would hope owners would respect their history somewhat. In the case of the Pope/Perkins/Lauren Atlantic, it was painted blue for most of its life with blue painted wires. Perkins added the plated wires. Lauren had it restored to it's spec as delivered to the first owner. Sure, it's authentic but it ignores most of its history.

[Austin T]

'murdering' them black-like the ricers do.

The import crowd isn't that big into black wheels. Most of the time the painted wheels they have are bright colors. I see more pro street/muscle guys with black painted rims than I do imports. Oh and that's what they are technically called, not the slur "Ricer".

[Cato]

Oh and that's what they are technically called, not the slur "Ricer".

Haven't seen much of that fad on musclecars on the east coast here. No intent to offend you Austin. Actually, I used that term because it's more forum-acceptable than the slur I normally use to describe the vast majority of modified imports.

[Austin T]

Haven't seen much of that fad on musclecars on the east coast here. No intent to offend you Austin. Actually, I used that term because it's more forum-acceptable than the slur I normally use to describe the vast majority of modified imports.

No offense taken, I don't like to classify Imports as one thing that a 20 year old with an old accord and a pep boys catalog can create. There are certainly "Ricers" but the Import croud tries to push them away. Much like how vintage Muscle guys don't accept the new muscle cars as "Real muscle" cars.

[keyser]

Chroming makes wires brittle, they break with hard cornering. No Ferrari comp car, Alfa, Bentley,or Bugatti had chrome. Polished in some cases, but painted was rule. Always cracks me up seeing Cobras with plated wires. Next time you see one look for broken spokes.

Perkins at least left the Campbell 57 alone, painted wires and all.

Lauren took a very original, virginal 250TR and did ground up on it. Car was survivor, easily 90+ point car as it sat. Did similar with D-type. Unforgiveable. Over-restored cars suck. Guess I need a new shirt to wear during concours prep to go with my "trailered cars suck" t-shirt.

[old gearhead]

Ralph Lauren lives the next town over from me. It must've been his '57 250TR that I passed on Route 35 in NY last year.

[afx]

Chroming makes wires brittle, they break with hard cornering. No Ferrari comp car, Alfa, Bentley,or Bugatti had chrome. Polished in some cases, but painted was rule. Always cracks me up seeing Cobras with plated wires. Next time you see one look for broken spokes.

Perkins at least left the Campbell 57 alone, painted wires and all.

Lauren took a very original, virginal 250TR and did ground up on it. Car was survivor, easily 90+ point car as it sat. Did similar with D-type. Unforgiveable. Over-restored cars suck. Guess I need a new shirt to wear during concours prep to go with my "trailered cars suck" t-shirt.

"Over-restored cars suck." - Amen!!

[Cato]

Lauren took a very original, virginal 250TR and did ground up on it. Car was survivor, easily 90+ point car as it sat. Did similar with D-type. Unforgiveable. Over-restored cars suck.

I saw that car in a local shop at various points in the resto. You are right, it was amazingly good before work started. But the shop owner (long-time Ferrari specialist) bent backward for accurately fabricating some parts that were beyond useable or safe. He had a mandate from Loren to do that.

What you don't see are things like rotted chassis braces, crossmembers and pedal pivots and some wonky wiring.

The good news side of these types of resto are:

A. No modifications

B. The car will survive long after Loren and the next two owners-worth having in my view.

But I certainly agree that, in general, over-resto is undesirable. Can't generalize that all top-flite restos are not warranted for preservation.

I hate that in Cobras-cars owned or sold by Bruce Meyer and Bruce Canepa are examples that bear their personal ideas of what Cobras should look like today. Much better are the 'survivor' cars with use and patina.

[sjordan2]

I was just looking at Paul Russell's article on his restoration of the car for Lauren, and he mentions that the wire wheels were de-chromed, respoked, trued and painted black. So it surprises me to have seen them in shiny chrome again, especially since the car has almost always been displayed by Lauren with the disc wheel covers (saves all that work of cleaning the wires, you know -- popular among chauffeurs of other cars back then). This picture was taken in Russell's shop at the beginning of the restoration.

Edited February 27, 2014 by sjordan2

[Ace-Garageguy]

Chroming makes wires brittle, they break with hard cornering. No Ferrari comp car, Alfa, Bentley,or Bugatti had chrome. Polished in some cases, but painted was rule. Always cracks me up seeing Cobras with plated wires. Next time you see one look for broken spokes.

Yes, Borrani recommends strongly against chromed spokes for competition use, but seems to feel they're OK for the street, as it's one of the available Borrani finishes.

And I certainly agree that over-restored cars aren't what I personally want to see. I also agree that some owner-personalization of any vehicle is entirely permissible, as it becomes just another part of the vehicle's "history". It's not really the same thing as drawing a mustache on the Mona Lisa, even if there were only a very limited number built.

No matter how beautiful any vehicle is, it was built as a machine, which implies it was intended to be used. Personally, the only vehicles I think out to be preserved EXACTLY as they were are one-only prototypes, and perhaps the very most significant race cars.

That said, I'd still rather see an un-restored car, well-preserved and maintained...possibly even upgraded to be safely useable as long as the upgrades are done respectfully and unobtrusively.

Edited February 27, 2014 by Ace-Garageguy

[keyser]

I looked at that TR before he got it, and it was not bad. You can replace braces, wiring, etc and bring back car to near original. As it sits now, it's a Russell-Lauren that looks like a TR using many original parts. PR has great shop, but Bobby Smith, others preserve originality. Much of it is at behest of owner, and RL wants new. Personalizing is one thing, color changes, etc. But rebuilding a virgin does NOT leave you with a virgin. Finally concours recognizes this, but still lots of offenders. I can speak to this, as I've shepherded restorations on O742 and O718, put orig motor back with 18, had new body done for 42 (Was Bardinon rebody of TR 59 rebody), and shown them and others at PB, FCA, etc.

Funnily, the original issue of the R-G XK-SS had red car on box art. It was a 18k mi original car I drug out of a garage in Chicago. Orig leather/paint, top, everything. I was a barn find originality guy 30 years ago. Went thru motor, freshened up things, and drove it. 40g tank, no fuel gauge Ran it out of gas on I80. If you look at corrugated oil breather hoses at firewall, there's tiny dent in one. Courtesy of me changing plugs and tail of ratchet slipping. Got sold to Germany, had ground-up revirginization, and moron stuffed it into wall.

Over-restored cars suck, you're only a virgin once, and great cars just get passed thru owners. The car has the history, not the owner. Good credit /= good taste.

Then there's the tach needle restorations. Start with original tach needle, remake everything else, and voila, a wonderful restoration with pretty trophies. :barf:

BTW, the 28M red NART got sent from the auction to Bobby's. Getting color change back to original (woohoo hate red) and will surface fairly soon I hope.

[sjordan2]

By the way, Lauren offers 1/8 diecasts by Amalgam of his TR, Atlantic and few more ($10,000 each).

[DonW]

By the way, Lauren offers 1/8 diecasts by Amalgam of his TR, Atlantic and few more ($10,000 each).

Perhaps he should stick to the polo shirts.

Edited February 27, 2014 by DonW

[Harry P.]

A car can only be "original" once.

[Ace-Garageguy]

A car can only be "original" once.

Hey meester...you want date my seester? She original only twice removed.

PS. Couldn't find a pic of Lauren's car on wires, but I did find this recent tribute "build" (sorry) to the Atlantic...

Edited February 28, 2014 by Ace-Garageguy

[charlie8575]

Can I ask a slightly off-topic, potentially dumb question?

How does chroming wires make them brittle? And does it have a similar effect on other metals (e.g., bumpers, door handles, etc.?)

I only took one semester of metals, and it was fab, I didn't get into metallurgy, which kinda stinks, I'd like to know a little more about it.

Charlie Larkin

Hey meester...you want date my seester? She original only twice removed.

PS. Couldn't find a pic of Lauren's car on wires, but I did find this recent tribute "build" (sorry) to the Atlantic...

I think it looks nice with the wires. To me, the disc wheels never fit the design of the car well.

Charlie Larkin

[Modelmartin]

I think it looks nice with the wires. To me, the disc wheels never fit the design of the car well.

Charlie Larkin

Those are just disc covers over the wire wheels.

[Belugawrx]

Oh.....

so yer sayin' those could have been under there all the time?

Saving weight for race day!!

My uncle would remove all trim and non-essentials from my grandfather's

'52 Chev to race down.. guess what...Race St. .... Niagara on the Lake

and put it all back on again b4 granpa went to work in the morning

Ha Laff