Harry P. Posted June 12, 2014 Posted June 12, 2014 It's the same problem you have with polls. You have no idea how many people who you poll are telling you the truth or are lying. Since you have no way of verifying that anyone's poll answers actually reflect their real views, that makes any poll pretty much meaningless, doesn't it? I'm not saying kit manufacturers shouldn't do market research... I just have to wonder how accurate it is.
Ace-Garageguy Posted June 12, 2014 Posted June 12, 2014 ... Other thing is that anybody who tells the truth about market-research knows that those consumers who answer the questions rarely do (tell the truth, that is). It's the same problem you have with polls. You have no idea how many people who you poll are telling you the truth or are lying. Since you have no way of verifying that anyone's poll answers actually reflect their real views, that makes any poll pretty much meaningless, doesn't it? I'm not saying kit manufacturers shouldn't do market research... I just have to wonder how accurate it is. Yes, a quandary wrapped in a conundrum.
Harry P. Posted June 12, 2014 Posted June 12, 2014 Yes, a quandary wrapped in a conundrum. That's the newest menu item at Taco Bell! It's called a "Quanundrumchilupa!"
Tom Geiger Posted June 12, 2014 Posted June 12, 2014 The problem with the Baja Bug thing is that every kit body is molded with fenders in place. So this is what a VW looks like without fenders... Front wheel well... Rear wheel well... and it's all part of the body structure, not a bolt on. And when you cut those fenders off a VW model body, you get this.. I had been thinking about creating a VW body without fenders and with the correct inner fender shapes molded in. I wonder if that would sell in resin??
Ace-Garageguy Posted June 12, 2014 Posted June 12, 2014 Though your upper photo is of a Super Beetle with the strut suspension (the torsion-bar cars were more common Baja bait), I see your point. An easy starting point for making the conversion is to cut the fenders off of the body and swap then side for side, using the reversed curves for the basis of inner wheel wells.
Tom Geiger Posted June 13, 2014 Posted June 13, 2014 Though your upper photo is of a Super Beetle with the strut suspension (the torsion-bar cars were more common Baja bait), I see your point. Then my foggy brain remembered... Hey! I tried that once. Here's a project that I started maybe 20-25 years ago and was overambitious for my skills at the time so it hit this point and stopped. Doors don't fit well, details outta scale... I was looking it over recently and thought I'd be better off starting anew on this project. And at this point everyone is wondering what the heck I was building.... Yea it was a real car. A Frankenstein built by bored GIs in the motor pool late at night from scrap parts. And yea, we had drag races on the Pirmasens, Germany Army Post! It had a V8 (I was a kid I don't know what it was) and it went like stink. It was the only car that could pop a wheelie and was insanely unsafe with stock VW suspension up front. No doubt long gone! And the bracket races pitted cars against each other like no other strip on Earth, It was fun, it was 1970! Photos taken by me with my little Polaroid Swinger camera!
keyser Posted June 13, 2014 Posted June 13, 2014 Quick Google for pic of nice Baja front end. Another common variant seen are the closely placed center headlight noses, I like these better. The Revell is nowhere near this, has a canvas nose I've never really seen on 1:1. Like that Cabrio Tom, Hot Wheels has a similar ragtop coupe that is neat. As far as market research, I've gotten hooked on Forza 5 by my kids, and I look at what is being used by HUGE numbers of gamers to set fast times at each track. There are dominant cars in each class at each track, and are used by literally thousands of people. At Indy, for example, there are 110,000 people on the "leaderboard" with fast times. There are 3 cars that are very competitive, only 1 modeled (Tamiya TS-020 Toyota). Out of 110,000 competitive racers, I'd think you'd sell 5-10% of them a kit or 2. They've paid for these cars with either purchased tokens, or earned credits, and spent time tuning them to be fast. Quite tough to get into the top 250 fastest, I have no idea how to get the last couple .1 seconds out of my car. Patience needed to do that, competitiveness to do that is EXACTLY what good modelers use. Spread that across 20+ tracks or more, and I have 165 cars in the game, many have more. They're going to buy, they already have. Just need to take notes and reach them. They use forums like this, my son makes livery designs that could be sued to advertise indirectly in games (not his, just an example). Market research is done, results available at end of each race. The Lotus XI resins were Tom Coolidge IIRC. Nice corrections. May have done Strombecker Scarab and Finless XK-D as well. Biggest issue at hand is releasing the 2010 Raptor in 2014 when the all-new 2015-2016 Raptor is due within months. Or the recent Camaro or Corvette a couple years after fact, right before taillight facelift. 2015 Mustang is first kit in a long time that's come out before the real car. The Airfix Bugatti Veyron is first kit of that car, just in time for its discontinuation after about 25 trim variants and 4+ years on market. Don't need market research to decide current is better.
jbwelda Posted June 13, 2014 Posted June 13, 2014 as I mentioned above, Tamiya makes a karmann ghia of slightly earlier vintage though of course the actual 181 was a throwback in a lot of ways (5 lug wheels in 1975?) so it is probably totally appropriate. and the difference between it and a so-called "bug" (type 1 sedan) is so insignificant it would not need to be addressed in 1/24 scale. note I said 1/24 scale. not that other funny one that somehow americans got stuck with. that's the other thing: get with the world market would ya. try to pretend there is a big world out there not just locals prizing 66 Camaros parked behind their gas stations on blocks. jb
Aaronw Posted June 13, 2014 Posted June 13, 2014 Thanks Tom and Lee, you demonstrate in photos what I meant about what can be done on a car is not always quite so simple on a model.
Matt T. Posted June 13, 2014 Posted June 13, 2014 Hang tight. A high quality, resin 1/24 Baja Bug may be available within the year...
unclescott58 Posted June 13, 2014 Posted June 13, 2014 as I mentioned above, Tamiya makes a karmann ghia of slightly earlier vintage though of course the actual 181 was a throwback in a lot of ways (5 lug wheels in 1975?) so it is probably totally appropriate. and the difference between it and a so-called "bug" (type 1 sedan) is so insignificant it would not need to be addressed in 1/24 scale. note I said 1/24 scale. not that other funny one that somehow americans got stuck with. that's the other thing: get with the world market would ya. try to pretend there is a big world out there not just locals prizing 66 Camaros parked behind their gas stations on blocks. jb 1/24th scale? It's OK. But, I'm a traditional America builder. I prefer 1/25th. That said, that would not stop me from buying a 1/24th scale VW Thing. Also Mr. Just, none of the locals around here ever parked a '66 Camaro on blocks behind gas station here or anywhere else. Since Chevrolet didn't start offering Camaros until the '67 model year. There are no 1966 Camaros. Scott Aho
jbwelda Posted June 13, 2014 Posted June 13, 2014 ah I stand corrected then. a 67 Camaro up on blocks behind the gas station. thanks jb
Brett Barrow Posted June 13, 2014 Posted June 13, 2014 (edited) In the interest of real world actual data, here are my company's top-selling 1/24-25th automotive subjects of the past 12 months, ranked by pieces sold. Revell Slingster Monogram Li'l Coffin AMT 1978 Ford Pickup Revell 1949 Mercury Woody Revell Fireball Roberts 1957 Ford Revell Peterbilt 359 Wrecker Moebius 1956 Chrysler 300B AMT Goodyear Polyglas GT Parts Pack Tires AMT LN 8000 Race Car Hauler Meng Ford F-350 Revell Jeep Rubicon Moebius ProStar Revell 1953 Chevy Panel Gasser AMT 1963 Corvette Revell GMC Pickup with Snow Plow AMT 1936 Ford AMT Gasser Tires and Wheels Parts Pack Revell D&M 1962 Corvette Gasser AMT Firestone Deluxe Champion Tires Parts Pack Revell Ford Expedition Police Snap-Tite Revell 1970 Hemi 'cuda Revell Snap-tite Enzo Ferrari Moebius 53' Great Dane Trailer Revell 1990 Mustang LX 5.0 AMT 1967 Shelby Mustang GT350 Top 25 26 ranked by dollars sold: Revell Peterbilt Wrecker Meng F-350 Moebius ProStar Moebius 53' Great Dane AMT 1978 Ford Pickup Revell Slingster AMT Ford Race Car Hauler Monogram Li'l Coffin Moebius 300B Revell Mercury Woody Moebius Bat Tumbler Revell Fireball Roberts 57 Ford Tamiya La Ferrari AMT 1936 Ford AMT 1963 Corvette Revell Jeep Rubicon Revell 1953 Chevy Panel Gasser Revell 1962 Corvette Gasser MPC Ohio George 67 Mustang Malco Gasser Revell 1970 Hemi Cuda Revell GMC with snow plow AMT Ford C600 Pepsi Delivery Truck Moebius LoneStar Moebius 1971 Ford Pickup (just preorders!) Polar Lights Deluxe 66 Batmobile Revell 1990 Mustang LX 5.0 I see a few trends in there - Big trucks, Ford pickups, nostalgic racers (especially gassers), reissues... As for Volkswagens, I don't know. I've sold exactly 2 of the new Revell VW's, with a handful of Hasegawas and Tamiyas. OOPS! I goofed the report! Edited June 13, 2014 by Brett Barrow
Tom Geiger Posted June 13, 2014 Posted June 13, 2014 1/24th scale? It's OK. But, I'm a traditional America builder. I prefer 1/25th. That said, that would not stop me from buying a 1/24th scale VW Thing. Also Mr. Just, none of the locals around here ever parked a '66 Camaro on blocks behind gas station here or anywhere else. Since Chevrolet didn't start offering Camaros until the '67 model year. There are no 1966 Camaros. I'm a scale bigot too. I always want my American cars in 1/25. So I won't buy those Monogram Mopars etc. You really need to look at each car individually especially since a lot of older models are 'box scale' and may or may not be 1/25 or 1/24 at all. I do buy kits in 1/24 that I cannot get in 1/25 and follow that same reasoning... kit first, diecast if no kit is available. BUT, I'll accept my International cars in 1/24 since that's the way of the world! And the 1966 Camaro? Grab it, that's the rare prototype. We'll have to get Gas Monkey Garage to restore it! LOL
unclescott58 Posted June 13, 2014 Posted June 13, 2014 (edited) Brett, I love Volkswagens, but that Revell '68 Beetle does not look right to me. Hence I have not parted my with money for one. They claim it to be a '68 Beetle. Right away, the bumpers shown on the car on the box are not the bumpers I remember on '68 Beetles. I wonder how many others are passing on this kit for similar reasons? Scott Aho Edited June 13, 2014 by unclescott58
Tom Geiger Posted June 13, 2014 Posted June 13, 2014 They claim it to be a '68 Beetle. Right away, the bumpers shown on the car on the box are not the bumpers I remember on '68 Beetles. I wonder how many others are passing on this kit for similar reasons? That's because it's a Revell of Germany Euro model car. The low end Beetle didn't get the new bumpers in '68. I have the kit and it's worth the price of admission just for the chassis and drivetrain. And it has a right hand drive dashboard. That's cool.
Brett Barrow Posted June 13, 2014 Posted June 13, 2014 Brett, I love Volkswagens, but that Revell '68 Beetle does not look right to me. Hence I have not parted my with money for one. They claim it to be a '68 Beetle. Right away, the bumpers shown on the car on the box are not the bumpers I remember on '68 Beetles. I wonder how many others are passing on this kit for similar reasons? Scott Aho That's because it's a Revell of Germany Euro model car. The low end Beetle didn't get the new bumpers in '68. I have the kit and it's worth the price of admission just for the chassis and drivetrain. And it has a right hand drive dashboard. That's cool. Whoops, my bad. My sales report works off of the item's name and if you change something it will consider it a different product. I was only seeing the 2 we sold before I added "New Tool" to the name. We've sold considerably more than 2. It's actually just off that top 25 list by only a couple pieces. I thought I had seen more than 2 go out the door! I could put a brick in a Revell box and sell more than 2 of them! Revell US had been calling it a "60's VW Beetle" during the pre-sell phase since it really didn't match up to any specific year US-spec car. In the end they decided to go with 1968 as used on the Revell Germany box. It is a very nice kit.
martinfan5 Posted June 13, 2014 Posted June 13, 2014 Revell US had been calling it a "60's VW Beetle" during the pre-sell phase since it really didn't match up to any specific year US-spec car. In the end they decided to go with 1968 as used on the Revell Germany box. It is a very nice kit. That seems to be the general consensus of the kit
Chuck Most Posted June 13, 2014 Posted June 13, 2014 That seems to be the general consensus of the kit The only thing I hate about that kit is the tires, but the balance of it is really nice. It's at least on par with the Tamiya '66 in most cases, just a little behind it in others... but actually better in a few areas, IMHO.
martinfan5 Posted June 13, 2014 Posted June 13, 2014 (edited) The only thing I hate about that kit is the tires, but the balance of it is really nice. It's at least on par with the Tamiya '66 in most cases, just a little behind it in others... but actually better in a few areas, IMHO. What is the issue with the tires? I know one issue with the Tamiya kit was the how the windows fit, I thought I read that the Revell AG is better on that aspect Edited June 13, 2014 by martinfan5
Chuck Most Posted June 13, 2014 Posted June 13, 2014 I was afraid the windows on the Revell Beetle would fit poorly- but they actually fit great! The problem with the tires (for me) isn't so much that the sidewalls are blank, but that they are flat. No bulge in the sidewall at all, not even once they're slipped onto the wheel. That and the ones in my kit were poorly molded- I can't vouch for that in every single example of the kit though.
martinfan5 Posted June 13, 2014 Posted June 13, 2014 I was afraid the windows on the Revell Beetle would fit poorly- but they actually fit great! The problem with the tires (for me) isn't so much that the sidewalls are blank, but that they are flat. No bulge in the sidewall at all, not even once they're slipped onto the wheel. That and the ones in my kit were poorly molded- I can't vouch for that in every single example of the kit though. Flat sided tire, I can understand why you are not liking them
Chuck Most Posted June 14, 2014 Posted June 14, 2014 (edited) Speaking of business cases... I think Revell (and a few other manufacturers) could save a few bucks by simply not including tires in some of their kits. Just put a disclaimer on the box saying "Look, we tried, but... you're better off just using something from the spares box for rubber here." (And I am only half-joking .) Edited June 14, 2014 by Chuck Most
martinfan5 Posted June 14, 2014 Posted June 14, 2014 Speaking of business cases... I think Revell (and a few other manufacturers) could save a few bucks by simply not including tires in some of their kits. Just put a disclaimer on the box saying "Look, we tried, but... you're better off just using something from the spares box for rubber here." (And I am only half-joking .) Thats not all that bad of an idea to be honest I have often thought about maybe not offering chrome plated parts either, say, less then half of the kits production run , I know it may sound like a silly idea to some
unclescott58 Posted June 14, 2014 Posted June 14, 2014 (edited) Sorry, but since I can not build this as a US spec Beetle I'm passing on this one. It maybe a great kit. But, it's still not a correct Beetle as I know it. Now I will build models of cars that were/are not available in the United States from time to time. But, the Beetle is an icon. It was a big seller here at the time. And Revell's Beetle is not the Beetle I remember from the time. They can tool up left and right hand drive dash boards. Maybe in a future release they can give us correct bumpers, headrests, etc. To make a US spec car. The present version is OK. It's just not for me. Scott Aho Edited June 14, 2014 by unclescott58
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