Could you make a business case for upcoming new kit subjects?

[unclescott58]

Where is this topic going? The more I read. The more negative it sounds. This started out interesting. But, it sound like doomsday for our hobby reading these postings!

All I know is I like what's been happening with model cars and companies that make them in the last couple of years. Ten years ago I was worry about the state of hobby. But, things are looking pretty good right now. The companies are producing kits I've been willing to spend my money on recently. Is there a good business case for what I want in the long term? I don't know? Will future generations follow in our foot steps? I'm not sure so? Should I care? Again, I'm not really sure? I'm enjoying the hobby right now. And I hope I will for at least another 15 to 20 years. After that I can't say what will happen.

You can't force the younger generation to doing anything they are not interested in. What cars do they want? And will they buy and build models of them? I'm not so sure? We do know what present modelers are doing, wanting, and buying. Will they want the same cars the young non builders want? If the kids won't build models. And us old farts do not build those kits either. What is the correct business case for upcoming new kit subjects?

Scott Aho

[martinfan5]

In game purchases are actually more expensive than a kit is, so virtual model car costs more than a real model car. Perceived bargain to start.

Well, now that all depends on the game , I can tell you that most of the car related games, the DLC is less then a cost of a kit, in most case's anyways.

Edited May 11, 2014 by martinfan5

[Tom Geiger]

Quoted for sad truth. We'd all have bloody flip-phones still, and paper maps. #getoffmylawn

Boomers that did well are retiring, those that didn't aren't doing swimmingly, or are pushing out farther. Perhaps renaissance of content, but sales drives profits, and allows expansion. Pushes don't play.

Access to kits as impulse, new conquest retail sales limited by 650 HL stores, and 1300 Michaels/Aarons stores. 2k sales points brick and mortar, smattering of LHS, sporadic WM presence, 175 HTUSA and intarweb sales. Michaels usually doesn't have squat, to be blunt. HL better, but not much. And the 'bay, but will hear usual gripes of it isn't safe to buy, yadayada.

Tim, Ken, some others understand the retail shift needed here too. Round 2 has definitely broadened the movie/collector tie ins, and Moebius has done well on boomer content. Ford understands retail shift, marketing to kids/families. But need lots more to sustain, grow, and not just (shudder) "kick the can down the road". I've read in many threads, and in real time, that many of us are buying less, selling more, even you, Tom. It's true. So better kits, fewer sales, increasing overhead, narrowed margins, and aging customer base. Needs a renaissance like bowling has had. Hipster bowling allies with hobby shops and a bottle shop/deli? (Funny thread that was).

When is last time you saw kids in HL for purchases, not just tortured trips with parent for school project supplies? Um, never? Need to make a kit or 2 part of kids lives, not their primary hobby (wishful), just a taste, to a large audience. Record industry has changed marketing too. Youtube clips expose audience, create demand. Gaming creates interest, and demand for cars. In game purchases are actually more expensive than a kit is, so virtual model car costs more than a real model car. Perceived bargain to start.

Now in the 20 years the 55-57 pickups available, how many have correct cabs vs sloping window line? 57's have correct flat sill. 55's don't, best I can tell. Haven't bought one in a few, but I've used 57 cabs for correcting my 55/56's. Or Modelhaus' small window cab now OOP but awesome. Round 2 should fix that globally, permanently. And merge the 2 kits for stepside or Cameo built either with stock or custom parts. 55 would be a build 1 of 8 that way. 55/56 Cameo; 55/56 stepside, 55/56 rodded Cameo; 55/56 rodded stepside. Probably could sell a few more that way, never have seen 56 mentioned IIRC. 58-59 conversion would be nice easy bump for kit. But they're saturated.

I'm agreeing with you on some points here Lee. The thing that made all us kids build models was accessibility. Model kits were sold everywhere from the corner drug store to five and dimes to the grocery store. I remember them lined up on top of the low freezer cases. I'd hide one in the bottom of my mother's shopping cart and got away with it much of the time! When I've been involved with kids groups and snap kits, they all are amazed that these things exist. They've had no exposure. And no doubt once we got done with them, that was it because they didn't know where to purchase more!

So what happened? There used to be many retail channels in the USA. All small operators like local family owned stores, small regional chains and the like. Today the entire market is sewn up by a few companies. For instance, do you know that the largest wine buyer in the country is Costco? And you just know that isn't good for quality or furthering that craft. It's completely twist top and cardboard box territory. Same with model kits. I was speaking with a veteran hobby insider recently and the subject of kits with issues came up. He pretty much said that all those kits needed one more revision but there was a promised shelf date to Walmart, and nobody misses that deadline. So the kit was okayed for production and came out with glaring errors. Still, we fanatics that would notice these little things like the shape of a '55 Chevy vent window only account for 1% of the market.

So as far as the '55 Chevy pickup vent window issue, AMT under whatever management did it, fixed that tool a long time ago. So any kit made from that date forward has the revised correct window. They can't go back and correct all the kits produced prior to this, and a lot of those seen at shows for $5-10 are the old cab. The window fit was a big whine back when that kit was originally released but I haven't heard the complaint in recent memory. Actually they tried to do something new and cool, creating windows that installed from the outside with the proper gasket and all included. That eliminated the customary awful glass shot with runners across the headliner. Personally I never had an issue with it. I made sure I did my fitting prior to paint. I think the guys who assumed everything would fit perfectly and found out after painting were the whiners. I don't believe there was a 1956 kit ever issued off this tool. The only real difference from a 1955 would be the side fender chrome emblems. I got mine from Modelhaus.

Still, I stand behind my remark that converting that kit to be a 1958 and 1959 would be a slam dunk!

Edited May 12, 2014 by Tom Geiger

[Robberbaron]

Agreed flatties, early Hemis are hot...to market segment that a) has money; b)knows what they are; c)can indulge a 1:1 build.

Kids would rather see Skyline motor than flattie, or JDM twincam whatever. Really irrelevant as long as it goes. The big market isn't looking for a flattie with trick heads. They want a cool looking car with nice engine shroud...

Kinda disagree with this, depending on your definition of "kids". Plenty of young guys are in the "rat rod" movement (hate that terminology), which has been going on for about 15 years now, and fortunately a lot of these guys have transitioned into building more traditional, period correct rods vs. the "buncha junk thrown together to look radical" method (even though there's still too much of that going on). Most magazine sections in the local stores around here have just as many various "rod" magazines as the import/tuner magazines. If you've surfed around much on the H.A.M.B., you'll also see that there are plenty of younger guys involved in the traditional rod movement. So the "traditional" rod engines have dual appeal to both the graybeards and the new generations of guys who have an appreciation for tradition.

Automotive interests are just like so many other elements of today's society: fragmented. For every guy that wants to build a stanced Honda, there's another that would rather build a pro-touring 69 Camaro, and another guy who wants to build a chopped and channeled "A". One of my co-workers bought a 51 Merc coupe when he was 28, another guy at our company had restored several 442s with his dad over the years. When he worked at our company, he had recently bought a 69 W-30 from the original owner in Canada, and he was only 24 at the time. You can't use too broad of a brush to paint an entire generation as "they just don't care" about this or that.

Speaking of "A" coupes, it is kind of amazing that a car that is so popular in the 1:1 car world is pretty much MIA in the current model world. I believe the Monogram 1/24 is the only styrene version ever made, and when was the last time they cranked that one out? I believe the only other option is resin right now. Kinda amazing that they never produced a coupe variation of the 1/25 Revell kit.

Edited May 13, 2014 by Robberbaron

[tim boyd]

Kinda disagree with this, depending on your definition of "kids". Plenty of young guys are in the "rat rod" movement (hate that terminology), which has been going on for about 15 years now, and fortunately a lot of these guys have transitioned into building more traditional, period correct rods vs. the "buncha junk thrown together to look radical" method (even though there's still too much of that going on). Most magazine sections in the local stores around here have just as many various "rod" magazines as the import/tuner magazines. If you've surfed around much on the H.A.M.B., you'll also see that there are plenty of younger guys involved in the traditional rod movement. So the "traditional" rod engines have dual appeal to both the graybeards and the new generations of guys who have an appreciation for tradition.

Automotive interests are just like so many other elements of today's society: fragmented. For every guy that wants to build a stanced Honda, there's another that would rather build a pro-touring 69 Camaro, and another guy who wants to build a chopped and channeled "A". One of my co-workers bought a 51 Merc coupe when he was 28, another guy at our company had restored several 442s with his dad over the years. When he worked at our company, he had recently bought a 69 W-30 from the original owner in Canada, and he was only 24 at the time. You can't use too broad of a brush to paint an entire generation as "they just don't care" about this or that.

Speaking of "A" coupes, it is kind of amazing that a car that is so popular in the 1:1 car world is pretty much MIA in the current model world. I believe the Monogram 1/24 is the only styrene version ever made, and when was the last time they cranked that one out? I believe the only other option is resin right now. Kinda amazing that they never produced a coupe variation of the 1/25 Revell kit.

Well stated, Robert. TIM

[Modelmartin]

(and found not guilty on all counts, BTW)

I am going by memory here but I do believe the judge threw the case out after the prosecution rested. The jury never had to deliberate.

[ChrisBcritter]

Speaking of "A" coupes, it is kind of amazing that a car that is so popular in the 1:1 car world is pretty much MIA in the current model world. I believe the Monogram 1/24 is the only styrene version ever made, and when was the last time they cranked that one out? I believe the only other option is resin right now. Kinda amazing that they never produced a coupe variation of the 1/25 Revell kit.

Or AMT with a coupe version of their '29 A roadster, or '28 A sedan.

[Tom Geiger]

Speaking of "A" coupes, it is kind of amazing that a car that is so popular in the 1:1 car world is pretty much MIA in the current model world. I believe the Monogram 1/24 is the only styrene version ever made, and when was the last time they cranked that one out? I believe the only other option is resin right now. Kinda amazing that they never produced a coupe variation of the 1/25 Revell kit.

Bingo! Here's a winner with a real business case. There is no modern tool -- that's a tool to the quality and detail of the Revell '32s -- of a Model A. This is a no brainer for Revell, following along with their current practice of tooling up timeless kits that will sell for eternity. There are different variations, and the kit needs to be engineered so that the current Revell '32 chassis fits right under it, as that's how a lot of rods are built.

[Ace-Garageguy]

Bingo! Here's a winner with a real business case. There is no modern tool -- that's a tool to the quality and detail of the Revell '32s -- of a Model A. This is a no brainer for Revell, following along with their current practice of tooling up timeless kits that will sell for eternity. There are different variations, and the kit needs to be engineered so that the current Revell '32 chassis fits right under it, as that's how a lot of rods are built.

I'm convinced. From post 116:

"Revell already has excellent tooling for the model A chassis, left over from the woody, pickup, sedan and other kits (assuming it still exists). Revell already also has excellent tooling for a street-rod style '32 chassis, obviously.

Tool a good 1/25 chopped (or stock) A coupe body, and retool the '32 chassis enough to build a traditional car on it (a model-A built on '32 rails is the ultimate "traditional" combination) with an I-beam front axle and a rear Zee in the frame to accommodate a buggy-spring quick-change, and throw in all the chassis bits from the old A as well.

Hire a REAL hot-rod builder and modeler who UNDERSTANDS the stuff (I'll volunteer) to work with the kit designers so that the thing can be built MULTIPLE ways on the A chassis, on the '32 chassis, channeled or not, etc. etc.) using an absolute minimum of new tooling.

If it sells, give the whole concept even longer legs by offering different bodied kits...as Greg suggests, just like they did with the run of '32 kits."

An easy-to-tool rectangular-tube chassis could be added down the line (a lot of cars are being built with these too in real-world-land), and some different wheel and engine choices to keep it flying as a parts donor, if nothing else."

============================================

Availability of a good styrene Zeeed frame and a beam front axle might even give the old '32 series more legs, as it would then be considerably easier for less-skilled builders to build very nice traditional '32 Fords without the heavy modifications or resin parts necessary to accomplish the same thing today.

===========================================

It might be good to look at the REAL demographics of who's building traditional cars in reality. The shop I work with builds nothing but traditional rods and customs and is widely known for excellence. The owner of the shop is 40, and builds models with his young sons. Half of our clients ARE graybeards, but the other half are YOUNG guys. One of the young guys is a fireman, and drives a '51 Merc. One is the son of a prosperous limo-service owner, and had us build, ground-up, a chopped '30 coupe (currently on the cover of the French Mag Kustom). One owns another transportation service that contracts to the county; he's building 2 '32 Fords. Another one is an IT troubleshooter, and he's also building a '32. A theater set designer is doing a chopped '53 Ford. A not-quite-so-well-known musician is doing a '48 Chevy coupe. And we're doing an absolutely period-perfect '32 for a very (very) well known musician.

The traditional hot-rod movement is far far from being the exclusive domain of old guys whose days are numbered.

Edited May 13, 2014 by Ace-Garageguy

[Brett Barrow]

Yeah, now we're starting to think like a model company. Instead of "I want a 1977 Ford LTD because my Grandmammy had one," you guys are starting to make a solid business case for Model A hot rods. Wouldn't be surprised to see some Model A's on the shelves soon. Stay tuned...

[sjordan2]

For Model A kits, you pretty much have to go 1/16 Minicraft. They made several different 1931 versions in stock and custom issues -- Roadster, 2-door sedan, highboy, delivery van, etc.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=1%2F16&_sop=10&_osacat=2580&_from=R10&_pcats=1188%2C220&_armrs=1&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR12.TRC2.A0.H0.X1%2F16+Model+A&_nkw=1%2F16+Model+A&_sacat=2580

Edited May 13, 2014 by sjordan2

[Harry P.]

I tried reading through this thread... way too much bloviating going on.

Obviously, everyone has a different idea of what new kits to produce. These types of threads always devolve into nothing more than a completely diverse and disconnected list of personal favorites, without producing any information of real value. That's ok, I guess... nothing wrong with listing the model kits you want to see. But in the end what has been accomplished? We found out that everyone wants something different... but we knew that going in.

To me there seems to be a very easy and obvious answer to the original question. Produce a kit of a car that's never been done before!

[Ace-Garageguy]

...Produce a kit of a car that's never been done before!

Moebius seems to be really the only one with the nads to do it. The big guys seem to prefer to minimize risk and milk old ideas and tooling (but many thanks to Revell for the great '50 Olds) which may or may not be the most profitable way to go.

The "business case" definition, if distilled down to the basics, is "what has the most potential for making a worthwhile profit, while minimizing risk and expenditure ?"

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Speaking of milking old tooling, and a natural fit with a much needed and oddly overlooked subject : The AMT '33-'34 Ford chassis tooling in both independently-sprung streetrod and buggy-sprung stocker versions is really pretty good.

A natural follow-on is a 3-WINDOW '34 Ford variation. NONE CURRENTLY EXISTS in 1/25 that's close to right. The '34 3-WINDOW is BY FAR THE MOST ICONIC of the '33-'34 body styles in the real world. We're building a real steel one at the shop now too.

Do a stock 3-window body shell and package it in place of the 5-window shell. The rest of the kit stays the same.

Do a nicely chopped 3-window shell and package it with the independent-suspension street-rod guts. Again, the rest of the kit stays the same. Both kits get new legs, and there's incentive to buy both kits if you want to build a traditional chopped car on buggy-springs.

Edited May 13, 2014 by Ace-Garageguy

[Harry P.]

I am going by memory here but I do believe the judge threw the case out after the prosecution rested. The jury never had to deliberate.

If you're referring to the Tucker trial, what happened was that after the prosecution presented their "case," as it were, the defense didn't put up a defense. They said that there was no need to defend Tucker and the other defendants on trial, as no offense had been committed. The jury agreed, and found the defendants not guilty on all counts.

From everything I've read, the "case" against Tucker was basically a trumped-up case instigated by a disgruntled Tucker ex-employee and brought to the attention of the SEC by certain parties with a vested interest in the health of the Big Three, including influential Michigan Senator Homer Ferguson, who didn't want to see the Chicago-based Tucker Corp. become a potential rival to his home state business interests.

The only thing Tucker was guilty of was maybe too much "chutzpah."

[keyser]

There's lots of kits of cars never done before, some even done correctly. Same modelers buy or not, or complain too expensive/didn't do base model/wiper motor wrong/....(See Lind. 61 Imp, Olds; RM Nova/LX; Ertl 34 3-W, ad nauseum)

New buyers/market needed.

Once the boomers/retirees die, market is miniscule.

Just tried to show huge untapped market to sell a few kits to interested people without huge risks.

Done bloviating. You can keep going on about Tucker. Maybe Romney at Nash too. Captivating for new modelers under 25. Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

I'll keep watching same meh kits not sell and Ooooooh a new kit of a 4 year old whatever.

Good thing I have enough resin and kits to last me years.

A 33-34 3-w would be welcome. As would a 33-34 Woody.

Here's something I mentioned. A newfangled Tucker for them whippersnappers

Edited May 13, 2014 by keyser

[Ace-Garageguy]

There's lots of kits of cars never done before, some even done correctly. Same modelers buy or not, or complain too expensive/didn't do base model/wiper motor wrong/....(See Lind. 61 Imp, Olds; RM Nova/LX; Ertl 34 3-W, ad nauseum)

New buyers/market needed.

Once the boomers/retirees die, market is miniscule.

Just tried to show huge untapped market to sell a few kits to interested people without huge risks.

Done bloviating. You can keep going on about Tucker. Maybe Romney at Nash too. Captivating for new modelers under 25. Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

I'll keep watching same meh kits not sell and Ooooooh a new kit of a 4 year old whatever.

Good thing I have enough resin and kits to last me years.

Just for the record, the AMT / ERTL '34 3-window you mention is one of the MOST pathetically wrong kits ever offered. It borders on Palmer scale-fidelity. Kinda goes a little beyond the "wrong wiper motor" scenario. It's a pathetic mess.

And you seem to be of the opinion that it's either YOUR way or all the model companies are going to go under. I kinda doubt it.

There's room for everybody to prosper here, and nobody needs to hog all the toys. MY scenarios have been presented as entirely viable ways to give more legs to EXISTING TOOLING, and get some cars popular with today's hot-rod crowd, both young and old...guys who actually BUILD CARS as opposed to pretending to drive cars in games...and make some possibly nice, quick returns without having to shell out a lot to do it.

BUT I AGREE ENTIRELY that the younger gamer market probably has a lot of potential, but they're the ones who go for "newfangled" tech, so why not develop a current, printable model for that market? Do a test run of putting a couple of high-end 3D printers in selected locations...maybe gaming-heavy, bricks-and-mortar stores...and see if anybody wants kits of game-relevant cars? Shapeways and other commercial print-to-order companies could also print out "newfangled" stuff from online orders. Let's REALLY try to get in the kids heads and pockets. Make the ENTIRE product line NON-TOOLING-DEPENDENT. A NEW way to do it.

In the meantime, make some quick cash by putting new life in some older kits, as already suggested.

And by the way...there are some pretty interesting things going on these days with some pretty savvy marketing folks going after boomer bucks. Here's a May 13 article from slate.com called "Silver Is the New Gold". Guess what it's about. http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/technology/2014/05/silicon_valley_and_baby_boomers_finally_noticing_a_750_billion_market.html

Edited May 14, 2014 by Ace-Garageguy

[keyser]

What I want is irrelevant. I'd really like nothing more than 10-fold success for all.

Just really think business needs to expand. Then more for everyone.

Love the A coupe on Deuce bits idea, new 33-34 3-w.

Lots of young guys like rods, my kids do.

But a huge group of potential buyers don't know or care. Can still sell them kits of something else. To pay for kits for the more esoteric builders.

The 34 Tudor got panned, the 5w too. I remember how fired up I was when they announced a 1/25 34 3-w in '74. Then opened the box.

Oh well. At least I was unclear to many. Won't happen again.

[martinfan5]

What I want is irrelevant. I'd really like nothing more than 10-fold success for all.

Just really think business needs to expand. Then more for everyone.

That is whats important, but there is a very big road block stopping that from happing, and that is a very large core group of people in this hobby that want to keep the hobby in the "Goldern Era" if you will, and that is going to cause more harm then good in my opinion, and the down side is that is the group that the US model kit company's target kits for. I do hope that the US model kit company's will pull their heads out of the sand one day and realize while they may be keeping the current targeted group happy , they are letting the next generation of customer slip away. Now, I understand why this happing, but at some point, its not going to back fire , or it has a very high chance of that happening , or I could be talking out my rear end, who know's. But I cant see living in the past on about what? 70% of your product catalog is going to help in the long term moving foreward , more so when the current target customers are gone.

Now, this isnt going to make some people happy, but right now, I would not care if Revell/Round2 closed up shop, it would bother my very little , they dont really want my money, so as long as the as the other company's from other parts of the world keep producing kits, I will have plenty of new kits to buy and build.

I

[Robberbaron]

...way too much bloviating going on.

Had to look that one up - now I can say I learned something today! ? And here I thought we were all speechifying instead ?

Obviously, everyone has a different idea of what new kits to produce. These types of threads always devolve into nothing more than a completely diverse and disconnected list of personal favorites, without producing any information of real value.

Harry, that's the reason I admitted in my original post that I had some reservations about starting this thread. I'm resigned to the fact that some folks just aren't going to get the gist of what we're trying to discuss, and you then get the resultant posts like "I drove an '84 Plymouth Reliant in High School, they really should make a kit of that". But it seems like at least half the guys posting in this thread "get it". It's not necessarily a personal wish list, it's more a matter of looking at how much interest there is in certain 1:1 vehicles, and wondering why there's not a decent kit of that vehicle in 1/25. Model interests and trends tend to follow the 1:1 car world.

I think there is some information of real value, specifically the certain subjects that are being discussed repeatedly, especially the concept of a new Model A coupe. I really believe several of us have made a very good argument on why it would make sense to tool one of these up. I'm not conceited enough to think that any manufacturer is going to make that decision because of this thread. But we do know that several people "in the industry" browse this forum. So if they read this thread, at least some of these ideas have a better chance of getting at least a little bit of consideration.

[Ridge Rider]

If I were a model company, I would offer pickup kits with many options, similar to the 3n1 kits for cars but more like 10n1. I would create the model as a 2 wheel drive shortbed standard cab with the common stock motor. The frame would be engineered to saw cut in one spot and add one extension piece that would be at full length for a crew cab long bed or could be shortened to the appropriate build. Like a short bed crew cab or extended cab or a long bed or any combo there is. I would have optional 4x4 parts with wheels, tires and a different motor. The cab would be standard but the kit would contain a crew cab back half that with minimal cutting, with the supplied templates, could be made into an extended or crew cab. Or just have the extra cab in the kit if feasible. It also would contain a short bed, long bed, and dually option. It's a simple and advanced kit rolled into one. This has never been done but I think it could be and would sell. With the Meng F 350 MSRP at $75 i would think you could price it about the same and have parts to trade or keep for future projects. Just a thought, any ideas positive or negative are encouraged if it furthers the discussion.

[tim boyd]

Still following this thread; interesting comments all.

As for Revell in all of this, they appear to me to be targeting multiple markets. The '50 Olds, and '70 'cuda kits, have both sold extremely well from what I understand. Those are clearly targeted at the, ahem, "Mature" market that believes modeling is starting its third "Golden Age".

But Revell is also very busy targeting new segments, with their just-announced '15 Mustang GT snap-kit and their simplified Pre-Painted models lines. The shop in Illinois is very, very busy with these projects art the moment, from what I understand. And while some of you may think that the '15 Mustang is targeted at the grey-beards, let me assure you that any '15 Mustang replica or kit will have extraordinarily strong cross-generational appeal. It is one of those truly timeless and classless automotive nameplates....

I'm just glad that we have such a broad range of new kit subjects these days,....from the latest exotics and imports, to newly tooled Bumpside Effies and F250 Super Duties, such longed-for, never before kitted topics as '65 Cyclones and Satellites, and even newly tooled Model T's. Who could have dreamed of all this just a few short years ago?

TIM

PS - just one more thought on this thread. Some kit topics are tooled and brought to market fairly quickly (in under a year), while others are projects that take multiple years to research, design, tool, go through several rounds of correcting test shots, and bring to market. So in a couple of years from now, when this thread gets resurfaced here, and if one or more of these kit suggestions have actually made it to the market, it would be then be tempting to conclude that this thread was the source of the idea for that kit. Given this variation in "development time to market", depending on the kit topic, that might - or might not - turn out to be the case. In any case, let's hope as there are a number of very good suggestions for kits (and "business cases" to back them up), in this thread. TB

PSS - one more suggestion from this end beyond the '57 Ford Styleside, and '61-'63 F100 Unibodies, and '64-'66 F100's I mentioned earlier in this thread, would be the '67 and '68 Chevy pickup. These two model years had a very different, more passenger-car like front end vs. the later '69-'72 pickups. In the 1.1 scale community, the '67 and '68 Chevies are revered for this reason, and have seen countless features in the magazines that cover the aftermarket truck scene. Of course, there are countless reissues of the '72 Chevy and GMC pickups, but the original AMT ('67) and MPC ('68) annual kits reflecting this unigue front end are very hard to find on the collector market and are greatly simplified vs. today's kits. And of course, these would support all the future kit variations (both model years, stepside, fleetside, swb, lwb, cab/chassis w/ light duty wrecker bed, etc.) cited above in other responses to this thread. TB

Edited May 14, 2014 by tim boyd

[Harry P.]

I'm resigned to the fact that some folks just aren't going to get the gist of what we're trying to discuss, and you then get the resultant posts like "I drove an '84 Plymouth Reliant in High School, they really should make a kit of that".

Yes, that's exactly what I was talking about.

[Harry P.]

I've mentioned this idea before, on other threads, but I'll repeat it here because it makes sense to me.

If I ran a model company, my company's website would have a very prominent area where people could leave direct feedback as to what new kits they would like to see. Either an open-ended "let us know" type of thing, or a list of possible subjects the company was considering, to allow people to vote for the one they would most like to see (configured so that every person could only vote once, maybe via cross-linking to your email address or some other way to prevent people from stuffing the ballot box).

I know that the model companies keep tabs on the various forums, but it seems to me that having a place for direct customer feedback on your website would be a logical thing to do. It would offer the manufacturers a way to directly gauge the interests of their customers. I don't know why all kit manufacturers don't so that. That sort of information is something I would definitely want to have if I ran a model company.

[Brett Barrow]

I've mentioned this idea before, on other threads, but I'll repeat it here because it makes sense to me.

If I ran a model company, my company's website would have a very prominent area where people could leave direct feedback as to what new kits they would like to see. Either an open-ended "let us know" type of thing, or a list of possible subjects the company was considering, to allow people to vote for the one they would most like to see (configured so that every person could only vote once, maybe via cross-linking to your email address or some other way to prevent people from stuffing the ballot box).

I know that the model companies keep tabs on the various forums, but it seems to me that having a place for direct customer feedback on your website would be a logical thing to do. It would offer the manufacturers a way to directly gauge the interests of their customers. I don't know why all kit manufacturers don't so that. That sort of information is something I would definitely want to have if I ran a model company.

That what they use Facebook for nowadays. Direct contact links on company websites are spam magnets, trust me, I spent years keeping one clean. I love Facebook (and Twitter, too, although I don't use it much) for consumer contact - it's cheap (free), they do a great job by keeping my inbox spam free, and it's a great way to communicate with customers, and since every one can see your responses and interactions you don't have to keep typing the same response to the same question day after day. You can update Facebook in 2 minutes, I might spend all day working on a website or company blog update, not to mention lots of companies farm out their website and don't get involved with the day-to-day running of it.

Here's Revell, Moebius, and Round 2's Facebook pages, in case anyone's interested -

https://www.facebook.com/RevellUSA

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Moebius-Models/152580141448964

https://www.facebook.com/Round2Models

tl;dr version - direct customer feedback on your website sucks, social media is much better for that.

Edited May 14, 2014 by Brett Barrow

[Tom Geiger]

If I were a model company, I would offer pickup kits with many options, similar to the 3n1 kits for cars but more like 10n1. I would create the model as a 2 wheel drive shortbed standard cab with the common stock motor. The frame would be engineered to saw cut in one spot and add one extension piece that would be at full length for a crew cab long bed or could be shortened to the appropriate build. Like a short bed crew cab or extended cab or a long bed or any combo there is. I would have optional 4x4 parts with wheels, tires and a different motor. The cab would be standard but the kit would contain a crew cab back half that with minimal cutting, with the supplied templates, could be made into an extended or crew cab. Or just have the extra cab in the kit if feasible. It also would contain a short bed, long bed, and dually option. It's a simple and advanced kit rolled into one. This has never been done but I think it could be and would sell. With the Meng F 350 MSRP at $75 i would think you could price it about the same and have parts to trade or keep for future projects. Just a thought, any ideas positive or negative are encouraged if it furthers the discussion.

Are you a Moebius insider? We will be seeing a whole bunch of releases based on their new Ford pickups. You know that they are on the right track when the second release comes with a six cylinder engine. Stay tuned and you will be happily surprised. This should show that the concept is viable and maybe we'll get the other missing pickups as a result.

"I drove an '84 Plymouth Reliant in High School, they really should make a kit of that".

Irony is that there is a recently produced diecast of the Reliant, showing us that anything is possible today! And remember diecast cars are models just needing disassembly and modification! That's how our hobby got it's start... guys taking apart promo models in the 1950s!