Will GM's problems ever end?

[ranma]

So all the cars that broke down on you were used cars. That explains everything.

1. No way to know how the previous owners treated them.

2. No way to know how you treated them. The list of problems you had is not typical. You had major breakdowns with just about every car you listed... sounds to me like the problem might be the way you drive or maintain your cars more than the cars themselves.

Since all your problems were with used cars, there's no way your comments relate to new GM cars or how reliable/unreliable a new GM car is.

Actually, it does, I maintain my cars with proper maintance, I don't abuse my cars either. Beside my Dad always had gm cars. and he never had issues with any of them. I recall the 78 Dodge pickup he bought caused more trouble and cost him more money than any of the GM products that he owned! The manifold cracked three different times on that dodge truck Dodge put to small of a radiator in the thing, plus when it got damp or cold out it wouldn't start. He instilled in me that If you take care of your car It will take care of you. BTW he bought a Mercury Metor new and it was in the shop more than he ever dove it. he bought the 71 Catalina wagon new, it was still going strong when he sold it in 1978! and we had the grand safari wagon from 77-89. and it had over 300,000 miles on it when he sold it and it was still going strong as well. He bought an 86 Celebrity new and had it till 2002. It was still running when he sold it.

[Dave Van]

Can't really compare a cracked VTEC spring to GM's key issue.....maybe more like the possibility of the cracked head on the Pentastars instead. It seems Toyota's run away drive by wire would be more compareable as that actually lead to people losing their lives.

I was trying to make a point that while all makers have recalls......it boils down to the severity and possible end result of the failure that makes the GM situation so horrible. BTW.....none of the recalled Fit springs were broken....not per the mechanic that did mine....it was the fact they COULD....again very different than the GM issue.

But still, no matter how you spin it, GM is a mess right now.

BINGO!!!!

[Longbox55]

it got damp or cold out it wouldn't start.

That's not unusual for a MoPar to not start when it's damp out.

[Rob Hall]

That's not unusual for a MoPar to not start when it's damp out.

Wasn't that an issue w/ Mopar products 40 years ago???? Don't think that is an issue w/ modern cars..

[unclescott58]

Rather calling this posting "Will GM's problems ever end?" It should be called "Will this posting ever end?" Just as everybody has a belly button. Everybody has an opinion on this subject. Which is fine. But, it seems like we're starting to beat a dead horse here. What is beginning to be the point of this discussion? Where is it going? And how much longer? I'm getting a little tired of it. But, like a train wreck I can't help but looking (and you can take that in more ways than one). It's been interesting. But, what more can be said?

Scott

[Rob Hall]

Rather calling this posting "Will GM's problems ever end?" It should be called "Will this posting ever end?" Just as everybody has a belly button. Everybody has an opinion on this subject. Which is fine. But, it seems like we're starting to beat a dead horse here. What is beginning to be the point of this discussion? Where is it going? And how much longer? I'm getting a little tired of it. But, like a train wreck I can't help but looking (and you can take that in more ways than one). It's been interesting. But, what more can be said?

Scott

Yeah..but that's the nature of the internet...threads go on and on, sometimes devolving into drivel.

[Harry P.]

Rather calling this posting "Will GM's problems ever end?" It should be called "Will this posting ever end?" Just as everybody has a belly button. Everybody has an opinion on this subject. Which is fine. But, it seems like we're starting to beat a dead horse here. What is beginning to be the point of this discussion? Where is it going? And how much longer? I'm getting a little tired of it. But, like a train wreck I can't help but looking (and you can take that in more ways than one). It's been interesting. But, what more can be said?

Scott

The best way you can help this thread go away is to stop posting on it. And then stop reading it.

But if you keep reading it and keep posting on it, you're part of the very problem you're complaining about.

[johnbuzzed]

All of the automotive companies have had their share of problems over the course of time. My Dad drove Chevies, Fords, Buicks, Plymouths, Pontiacs, Dodges; all (except his first car) purchased new. None were trouble-free. It's not fun but it happens. This situation with GM occurs at a time when communication throughout the world is just about instantaneous, and the information is immediately out there; almost impossible to cover-up. The issue is compounded by the use of low-cost, poor quality parts; most likely caused by: a. The bottom line (greed) -or- b. The quest to meet CAFE standards to avoid fines, which boils down to: greed. It doesn't appear as though the problem is caused by poor engineering and design or by environmental/weather/climate issues. That's the essence of the problem. Pay a little now instead of paying a lot later.

[Harry P.]

It doesn't appear as though the problem is caused by poor engineering and design...

Faulty ignition switches, overheating exhaust systems, seat belts and air bags that don't work as they should, electric steering boxes going bad, etc... just a few of the current problems covered by GM recalls this year.

If bad engineering and bad design aren't the cause, then what is? Cost-cutting probably plays a part, of course... but it would seem to me that poor engineering and/or design has to be a part of at least some of these recalls. It can't all just be el cheapo parts.

[unclescott58]

The best way you can help this thread go away is to stop posting on it. And then stop reading it.

But if you keep reading it and keep posting on it, you're part of the very problem you're complaining about.

Harry, I know I'm part of the problem! Look, here I am again seeing what others have say on subject. I think it's a sickness. Like I said in my last posting on this subject. It's like a train wreck, I just can not stop looking. I may complain Harry. But, in someways that's half of the fun. That and stirring the pot a little bit..

Scott

[StreetShaker]

I've never been a big GM guy, I was always raised in a Ford and Mopar environment. This being said I don't hate or dislike GM,but hardly any of their products appeal to me, I'm more or less neutral on the subject. My first and current car is a 1999 Chevy S-10, it was not a first choice but it fit my requirements. I have learned many things about GM vehicles and especially where they cut corners in s-10's, for example I went to a junkyard to find a new passenger airbag switch for my truck and all 21 s-10's in the yard had them removed same thing with the headlights for the '99 model. I just really hope that these recalls don't affect '99 S-10's anytime soon.

Being a GM fan and having been raised in a GM family I can think of a few places they cut corners in the S series. If you're ever looking for parts for your truck let me know! Lots of 98+ S series vehicles in the local u pull it.

Back on topic. Going with what I said before its painful to see this but I knew it was coming. I started noticing a lot of bad stuff on the newer vehicles. Most of the problems seem to stem from the stuff that's manufactured in Mexico and China. But don't quote me on that. I've never been a fan of out sourcing, and this kind of cements my thoughts.

[Dave Van]

Per GM at the Fed hearing today the Recall for this year alone has now crossed the 20 million mark.....WOW!!!!!

Not beating anything...just a correction!!!!

Edited June 18, 2014 by Dave Van

[johnbuzzed]

Yep, while engineering might have something to do with it ("Yeah, the specs look good; that should work".), all it boils down to which part costs less to procure. I would dare to say that a higher quality item at a higher cost would not only perform the job as expected but it would also be reliable and last longer. I see too much of that in today's high-tech society, even in medical applications. Cheaper is not always good.

[Harry P.]

Here's a new twist to the whole sad story I hadn't heard before. From Bloomberg Business Week:

It was close to 3 a.m. on June 6 when Courtland Kelley burst into his bedroom, startling his wife awake. General Motors, Kelley's employer for more than 30 years, had just released the results of an investigation into how a flawed ignition switch in the Chevrolet Cobalt could easily slip into the "off" position—cutting power, stalling the engine, and disabling airbags just when they're needed most. The part has been linked to at least 13 deaths and 54 crashes. GM Chief Executive Officer Mary Barra, summoned before Congress in April to answer for the crisis, repeatedly declined to answer lawmakers' questions before she had the company's inquest in hand. Now it was out, and Kelley had stayed up to read all 325 pages on a laptop on the back porch of his rural home about 90  miles northwest of Detroit.

The "Valukas Report," named for former U.S. Attorney Anton Valukas, who assembled it at GM's request from interviews with 230 witnesses and 41 million documents, blamed a culture of complacency for the more than decade-long delay before the company recalled millions of faulty vehicles. It described employees passing the buck and committees falling back on the "GM nod"—when everyone in a meeting agrees that something should happen, and no one actually does it. On page 93, a GM safety inspector named Steven Oakley is quoted telling investigators that he was too afraid to insist on safety concerns with the Cobalt after seeing his predecessor "pushed out of the job for doing just that." Reading the passage, Kelley felt like he'd been punched in the gut. The predecessor Oakley was talking about was Kelley.

Kelley had sued GM in 2003, alleging that the company had dragged its feet addressing dangers in its cars and trucks. Even though he lost, Kelley thought that by blowing the whistle he'd done the right thing, and paved the way for other GMers to speak up. Now he saw that he'd had the opposite impact: His loss, and the way his career had stalled afterward, taught others at the company to stay quiet. "He stood in the doorway of our bedroom with a stunned look on his face," Beth Kelley, his wife of 23 years, says.

More on the story...

Kelley had been the head of a nationwide GM inspection program and then the quality manager for the Cobalt’s predecessor, the Cavalier. He found flaws and reported them, over and over, and repeatedly found his colleagues’ and supervisors’ responses wanting. He thought they were more concerned with maintaining their bureaucracies and avoiding expensive recalls than with stopping the sale of dangerous cars. Eventually, Kelley threatened to take his concerns to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration. Frustrated with the limited scope of a recall of sport-utility vehicles in 2002, he sued GM under a Michigan whistle-blower law. GM denied wrongdoing, and the case was dismissed on procedural grounds. Kelley’s career went into hibernation; he was sent to work in another part of the company, and GM kept producing its cars.

Selling for around $16,000, Cobalts were popular with teenagers. The first death linked to its switch came in July 2005, when a Maryland 16-year-old, Amber Marie Rose, crashed her red ’05 into a tree. The airbag did not deploy. Although reports streamed into GM about moving stalls and disabled airbags for years, the company waited until Feb. 13, 2014, to issue a recall.

[sjordan2]

Sounds to me like a case of trying to get to market too fast without sorting things out properly, and waiting to see how things go on the road. As we say in the TV commercial business, if a shot doesn't come out well, "we'll fix it in post." But nobody gets killed or maimed (depending on the nature of the client.).

[1930fordpickup]

This was a good read Harry. Thanks for adding it .

I will say that the recall terms have changed because of the cover ups. It takes far less complaints to get one rolling.

So far 13 deaths have been added to the list , how many more if they dug deep enough?

GM only fans always go back to the Pinto, (but seem to forget the side saddle fuel tanks on their trucks). I understand the thought process but why would you want to be compared to that . This is the same thing all over again. The Pinto could have been a safer car with a 15.00 part, this was just greed.

The faulty key switch is just as bad. What makes this worse is that they fixed the problem but used the same part number so who knows what has a good part and what has a bad part. That is just a cover up.

[Harry P.]

The more I read about this mess, the more it stinks. It's appalling what went on at GM on a corporate-wide level. Incompetence, poor design, poor communication, poor decision making, poor management, and apparently an active attempt at "CYA."

It's enough to make me think we would have been better off not bailing them out. I was never in favor of the bailout, not due to political beliefs but the idea that companies should succeed or fail in an open market capitalistic economy based on their own merits.

[MrObsessive]

That was a very interesting story Harry! I wonder now that all of the dragging of the feet is now out in the open, could he reopen his case against GM?

I just received another official recall notice for my Saturn regarding the electric power steering. So now, I have to carve out more time to have it taken in the shop to have this fixed. Or just wait until it breaks down and have them come and get it.

[MrObsessive]

The more I read about this mess, the more it stinks. It's appalling what went on at GM on a corporate-wide level. Incompetence, poor design, poor communication, poor decision making, poor management, and apparently an active attempt at "CYA."

It's enough to make me think we would have been better off not bailing them out. I was never in favor of the bailout, not due to political beliefs but the idea that companies should succeed or fail in an open market capitalistic economy based on their own merits.

Don't forget their arrogance! That seems to run rampant among a lot of folks at GM's upper level management............

[1930fordpickup]

There used to be a saying (or close to it )like this. What is good for General Motors is good for the United States .

I think they still believe that there. The US let them split into Old GM and New GM . Let all the Lawsuits stay with all the Old GM is what they thought was going to happen. Remember that Old Gm has owner ship of all the old buildings around the US that need cleaned up and tore down. Arrogance is right but when you are handed a silver platter after the company you ran went belly up from the courts what do you expect.

[johnbuzzed]

Bill, drive your Saturn to a dealer and bang into a few of their parked new cars. Blame it on the steering!

[MrObsessive]

Bill, drive your Saturn to a dealer and bang into a few of their parked new cars. Blame it on the steering!

:lol:

[ranma]

A truck load of Fords that never made it to the dealer, the cars just caught on fire. Ford had problems an still does with the eco boost engines. this Ford flex started with a rattle went to a shake and burn.

[Harry P.]

Rick, nobody on this whole thread has said that only GM has recalls. All manufacturers have had recalls at one time or another, for problems of varying severity from trivial to major. We get it. But the sheer scope of the current GM mess is unprecedented. The total number of problems, the total number of separate recalls, the total number of cars recalled... no other manufacturer has had a fail on such an epic scale.

And by this time, the real issue that Congress is investigating is not all the part and design failures and all the recalls. While obviously a huge story in itself, what Congress is trying to determine is how and why GM actively buried all of these problems for so many years. It's the actions of GM employees that are now being investigated more so than the actual recalls.

All manufacturers have recalls. Not all manufacturers actively hide the problems from the public and continue on doing "business as usual." That is why GM is on the hotseat.

[Harry P.]

That was a very interesting story Harry! I wonder now that all of the dragging of the feet is now out in the open, could he reopen his case against GM?

Well, he lost the lawsuit on "procedural" grounds, not on the merits of the case. In other words, on a legal technicality that the hotshot array of GM lawyers no doubt were able to come up with. I'm no lawyer, so I can't say he can try it again. I would assume so, but even if he could... he's just a "regular guy." I doubt he'd want to get involved at this point unless he was able to get his legal fees covered somehow.