No intrest in Sport Sedans ?

[Ron Hamilton]

I agree Tom. That's why I was talking about the "mint condition" ones. A busted up promo is destined for the trash bin anyway, so why not restore them. Steve

That's what I would do too.

This one was scratched up, missing the wheels and chrome, and had a busted A-pillar, which I scratchbult to match the other one. I polished it out to remove the scratches, and did not paint it. A cheap '66 T-bird kit donated everything, but the pillar. Since it was not too valuable, I Bare-Metaled the trim.

[Motor City]

It is a nice one Jim. But I'm a builder, not a collector. I don't buy them to save them as is. I've gotten my hands on several mint condition, in the box kits over the past few years, & as blasphemous as it may be to kit collectors, I built them. After all, that's what they're for. Steve

Steve,

So that is a kit molded in yellow and not a promo? I thought all of the '56-'62 Jo-Han models warped badly. I have a '63 deVille kit that has no warp, but the promos apparently still used the old plastic that warped.

[John Goschke]

Steve,

So that is a kit molded in yellow and not a promo? I thought all of the '56-'62 Jo-Han models warped badly. I have a '63 deVille kit that has no warp, but the promos apparently still used the old plastic that warped.

Not Steve, but I can answer the question... That Olds is a kit that was molded white styrene that has yellowed over time. Just as AMT did in '58, when Johan started making kits in '59 they molded them in styrene, which does not warp. Johan continued to use shrinkage- and warp-prone acetate for their promos and friction models at least thru '63 and maybe '64 (can't remember for sure if they used it in '64.) AMT stopped using acetate for their promos and frictions sometime during the '61 model year in favor of "cycolac," which was more stable than acetate.

[StevenGuthmiller]

Steve,

So that is a kit molded in yellow and not a promo? I thought all of the '56-'62 Jo-Han models warped badly. I have a '63 deVille kit that has no warp, but the promos apparently still used the old plastic that warped.

The kits were made of styrene so they didn't warp any more than any other styrene kit. I've built a lot of them in the past couple of years, & warpage has never been an issue unless the kit was packed badly of course. The '59 Olds is a kit, not a promo, so there is no warpage. It's not molded in yellow, the lighting was not real good where I took the picture, & these old unpainted kits take on a very yellow or cream colored tint over the years. Here's a '61 Plymouth that was molded in yellow It's a kit also, & was in such nice shape, I didn't even paint it. Just polished it out. Steve

[ChrisBcritter]

I made this out of a derelict convertible.

I'm going to "freshen it up", with some new wheels, door handles, and an engine.

Terrific job on this one! Did you use a '63-'64 Cadillac Coupe deVille roof? The 1/1 Chevy and Pontiac four-door hardtops used the same stamping as the Coupe deVille for the roof with different C-pillars.

[om617]

I do love the looks of 60 Cadillac Brougham. Also the 61-62 Six window sedans are very elegant and classy looking.

[Ron Hamilton]

Terrific job on this one! Did you use a '63-'64 Cadillac Coupe deVille roof? The 1/1 Chevy and Pontiac four-door hardtops used the same stamping as the Coupe deVille for the roof with different C-pillars.

I sure did.

[Motor City]

Not Steve, but I can answer the question... That Olds is a kit that was molded white styrene that has yellowed over time. Just as AMT did in '58, when Johan started making kits in '59 they molded them in styrene, which does not warp. Johan continued to use shrinkage- and warp-prone acetate for their promos and friction models at least thru '63 and maybe '64 (can't remember for sure if they used it in '64.) AMT stopped using acetate for their promos and frictions sometime during the '61 model year in favor of "cycolac," which was more stable than acetate.

Thanks for the replies, John and Steve. I didn't know Jo-Han made kits prior to 1960. I saw a '63 Starfire kit with severe warp, so assumed that the switch to styrene occurred sometime that year since I have a couple of non-warped '63 kits. Maybe the Starfire was left in an attic. The '61 Fury has great detail. I notice there is a dip in the roof at the top center of the windshield, so maybe that was stored in a hot area at some point in its life..

[Tom Geiger]

Thanks for the replies, John and Steve. I didn't know Jo-Han made kits prior to 1960. I saw a '63 Starfire kit with severe warp, so assumed that the switch to styrene occurred sometime that year since I have a couple of non-warped '63 kits. Maybe the Starfire was left in an attic. The '61 Fury has great detail. I notice there is a dip in the roof at the top center of the windshield, so maybe that was stored in a hot area at some point in its life..

Johan kits were made of styrene at the same time that their promos were made from the warping stuff. They did the promos from that material because it was shiny. You will also find many older Johan promos... 56 Plymouth, Desoto, Olds and Pontiac to name a few that are of non-warping styrene because they are copies popped out in the 1980s or later.

[Art Anderson]

Johan kits were made of styrene at the same time that their promos were made from the warping stuff. They did the promos from that material because it was shiny. You will also find many older Johan promos... 56 Plymouth, Desoto, Olds and Pontiac to name a few that are of non-warping styrene because they are copies popped out in the 1980s or later.

Actually, the rationale for using acetate plastic for promotionals was simply due to the "shatter proof" nature of the stuff. Back in the day, styrene was still a hard, and rather brittle plastic--early styrene toys got a bad name pretty quickly due to that--some of those broke into shards sharp enough to cut fingers. Once ABS was developed, around 1960 or so, that changed the game for promo's once AMT shifted to it--ABS (Cyclolac as it was first called) had the shatterproof characteristics of acetate, but isn't affected by humidity, and doesn't have the problem of shrinkage over time.

Art

[sjordan2]

My only interest in sports sedans is vintage classics, like this 1937 Rolls Phantom III Sports Saloon, issued in 1/16 by Revell, Gunze Sangyo, Anmark and Entex. Here's the original car that was the source of the kit, now in the Toyota Museum in Nagoya, Japan. The next image is of the 1/16 kit, recently offered for sale on eBay.

More pictures at

http://s827.photobucket.com/user/sjordan47/library/ROLLS%20PHANTOM%20III%20e%20Bay%20modeler%20build?sort=3&page=1&_suid=1422300210001003245851490646601

Edited January 26, 2015 by sjordan2

[StevenGuthmiller]

Thanks for the replies, John and Steve. I didn't know Jo-Han made kits prior to 1960. I saw a '63 Starfire kit with severe warp, so assumed that the switch to styrene occurred sometime that year since I have a couple of non-warped '63 kits. Maybe the Starfire was left in an attic. The '61 Fury has great detail. I notice there is a dip in the roof at the top center of the windshield, so maybe that was stored in a hot area at some point in its life..

The dip in the roof may be partially due to the aftermarket glass I used for it. Not really sure if the original glass would have fit a little better. I happened to have it on hand & sometimes I like to use vacu-formed glass just because the scale is better. Not so thick. Steve

[Art Anderson]

In American body style lingo, a four door without a B pillar is/was a hardtop, as was the two door non post model as well. Sometimes the two door was called a coupe if it had a post and window frame work. Now, it's a sedan, closely aligned to the way the world outside of the US does it. But I digress, I owned a 64 Buick LeSabre 4 door hardtop and a four door sedan. Both were equipped the same but the hardtop gave the illusion of a more spritely lighter car.

Great description! FWIW, from their inception in 1949 at GM (Cadillac Coupe de Ville, Buick Roadmaster Riviera, Oldsmoblie Holiday) it's said that Harley Earl, GM's legendary VP Of Styling, insisted that "hardtops" were "Sport Coupes", the later 4dr hardtops became "Sports Sedans" in the GM lexicon.

I was a kid back then, and I distinctly remember people calling those Sport Coupes "Hardtop Convertibles" and in a real sense they were just that--Convertibles with a hard steel top welded on. To carry that theme even farther, early hardtops (from most if not all makes) even had chrome plated "bows" on their headliners, again to carry over the image.

As to why very few kits of 4dr hardtops (AKA Sport Sedans), it was pretty simple back in the 1960's--2dr hardtops were what we kids and teenagers WISHED Dad would buy, being disappointed at just another 4dr (no matter the practicality issues in those baby boom years). The Johan Cadillac and Oldsmobile 4dr hardtop kits were a tough sell in hobby shops back then, likely for that very same reason, Any model kit of one likely would be met by an awful lot of modelers crying "2 doors too many"--even though others would be as pleased as punch.

Art

[disabled modeler]

Id be pleased Art... I once owned a 70 Impala 4 door HT got it cheap and it was very nice clean for 200.oo in the mid 1980s. There were some cool kits of 4 door HTs years ago...one I am looking for the 70 Ford (LTD) 4 door HT...classy looking car and much different than the 4 door Galaxie sedan kit. One can only build so many muscle cars till they get bored with them...guess that is why I love them?

[Tom Geiger]

Id be pleased Art... I once owned a 70 Impala 4 door HT got it cheap and it was very nice clean for 200.oo in the mid 1980s.

F&F Resins (Ed Fluck Sr) did a 1970 4 door hardtop.

The one car I fondly remember was a 1973 Electra 225 Hardtop. It was a company car where I worked, and I bought it. It was light yellow with a brown vinyl top and interior. I still remember cruising with all the glass down.

That got replaced with a 1978 LTD II "Pillared Hardtop" 4 door. That car was dark brown and was fun because the NJ State Troopers used them then and cars would just pull out of the fast lane as you came up on them.

Edited January 27, 2015 by Tom Geiger

[disabled modeler]

F&F Resins (Ed Fluck Sr) did a 1970 4 door hardtop.

The one car I fondly remember was a 1973 Electra 225 Hardtop. It was a company car where I worked, and I bought it. It was light yellow with a brown vinyl top and interior. I still remember cruising with all the glass down.

That got replaced with a 1978 LTD II "Pillared Hardtop" 4 door. That car was dark brown and was fun because the NJ State Troopers used them then and cars would just pull out of the fast lane as you came up on them.

Tom....I am looking for the old AMT or promo like one cant afford resins. LOL... I use to own a retired state police car in high school.

[Motor City]

Actually, the rationale for using acetate plastic for promotionals was simply due to the "shatter proof" nature of the stuff. Back in the day, styrene was still a hard, and rather brittle plastic--early styrene toys got a bad name pretty quickly due to that--some of those broke into shards sharp enough to cut fingers. Once ABS was developed, around 1960 or so, that changed the game for promo's once AMT shifted to it--ABS (Cyclolac as it was first called) had the shatterproof characteristics of acetate, but isn't affected by humidity, and doesn't have the problem of shrinkage over time.

Art

Art and Tom,

Any idea why my '55 DeSoto has no warp and the original-issue '56 Desoto warp quite a bit?

[Tom Geiger]

I dunno but now that you mention it, my '55 is straight too. See how clean it is around the metal grille? The '56 in the back is a modern repop, so it's straight too.

[StevenGuthmiller]

I dunno but now that you mention it, my '55 is straight too. See how clean it is around the metal grille? The '56 in the back is a modern repop, so it's straight too.

A whole bunch of these old Johan promos were re-popped in the 80s by X-EL & Seville. They were exact replicas of the originals made from the old molds & were made of styrene. Steve

[Motor City]

A whole bunch of these old Johan promos were re-popped in the 80s by X-EL & Seville. They were exact replicas of the originals made from the old molds & were made of styrene. Steve

As far as I know, only the '56, '59, and '60 were re-issued.

[Motor City]

My '55 has metal bumpers and wheel covers, so it's not a re-issue.

[Tom Geiger]

My '55 has metal bumpers and wheel covers, so it's not a re-issue.

Mine too!

[StevenGuthmiller]

As far as I know, only the '56, '59, and '60 were re-issued.

I'm not real sure about just the Desotos, but there were a lot of other ones re-issued from other years. The only Desoto I have is the '59. Steve

[gtx6970]

I collect promos and have seen them from virtually no warp to almost un-reconizable they are warped so bad

Seems most of the GM stuff 1960 and up is ok, prior to that they are hit or miss.

Mopar stuff 1963 and earlier tended to be warped , 1964 and later = no worries

[unclescott58]

My understanding, is some of the older promos warp more when exposed to light. Any light, but especially sunlight. I don't for sure if this is true or not. But, that's what I've been told.

Scott