sjordan2 Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 (edited) On the earlier Gullwings, the eyebrows were bolted on. You can see the seam and seal if you look closely, and this may account for variations in angles. On the later cars, the eyebrows were stamped into the body metal [EDIT: This part is unlikely]. That's the way one source tells it. HOWEVER... According to the Adler book, "Beginning with the 379th coupe built (1955)' the welting placed between the fender and the "eyebrow" was eliminated and the brow was simply leaded into the fender....this gave the "eyebrow" a more integrated appearance...." That makes more sense to me, and the 1955 parts catalog still shows bolt holes on the fenders along the eyebrow lines. I don't know if there were any further differences in the manufacture of the 29 cars with all-aluminum bodies. It's also possible, as Chuck K. pointed out, that we're seeing restoration variances. Gullwing bodies were assembled from a multitude of parts, and fabricating replacement parts could be tricky. Edited April 9, 2015 by sjordan2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Myers Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 Earlier attempt at "Gull Wing" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjordan2 Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 That's the 1938 540K Streamliner Coupe, a one-off that had its body totally dismantled, but "The car's resurrection began in 2011; the unique experimental coupe has been brought back to life by Mercedes-Benz Classic using the car's original blueprints. The first time it was shown in public since its restoration completion was at the 2014 Pebble Beach Concours d'Elegance." http://www.conceptcarz.com/view/photo/1236937,9097/1937-Mercedes-Benz-540K.aspx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howard Cohen Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 This is a photo I took in 2002 of a factory 300SL from the MB museum...you can check the eyebrows for yourself and draw your own conclusions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjordan2 Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 (edited) This is a photo I took in 2002 of a factory 300SL from the MB museum...you can check the eyebrows for yourself and draw your own conclusions. Howard, the thing is, that no matter how many cars you look at, there are many ways to draw different conclusions. For example, your single photo would say that whitewall tires would be okay. Maybe okay for some, but authentic, no. And ugly, yes. I think you're trying to make some kind of point, but I can't tell what it is. Edited April 9, 2015 by sjordan2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddyfink Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 This is a photo I took in 2002 of a factory 300SL from the MB museum...you can check the eyebrows for yourself and draw your own conclusions. Where they not all "Factory" cars? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VRM Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 Where they not all "Factory" cars? Well, the factory can restore a car just like anybody. There are things that the factory never did originally that many restorers have done. For example, none of the cars originally had chrome wheels. None were also originally equipped with whitewalls. Recently companies like Ferrari and MB have created restorations shops that are capable of restoring a car exactly as it originally left the factory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddyfink Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 (edited) https://youtu.be/cegkaoVfjM8 Edited April 10, 2015 by Daddyfink Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragline Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 That man knows what a car is for. He is enjoying it and I applaud anyone for using a vehicle for whatever they envision whatever that vehicle may or may not be worth. He's certainly getting his money's worth out of it. I bought my kit today off Amazon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
250 Testa Rossa Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 There is a 1954 300SL out there that ran at Bonneville back in the '50s. That car is currently in Costa Mesa, CA and the owner drove it in the Monterey Historics a few years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Bacon Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 (edited) There's a series on TV here at the moment called "The Classic Car Show", which is pretty good fun. One of the regular segments features Bruno Senna power-lapping various classic cars on the "handling circuit" at Brooklands. I think the circuit is part of the Mercedes Performance Centre, which might explain why three of the eight cars I've seen so far are Mercs -- a 190e raced by his uncle back in the day, a "pagoda-top" era convertible, and a 300SL. Anyway, the bottom line is that the 300SL is a pretty dreadful race car -- heavy, wayward, and prone to losing the back end. Looks fantastic, mind... (If you really want to go round the course quickly, it seems that a Lightweight E-type is the weapon of choice, though the Mini Cooper turned in a very creditable performance.) bestest, M . Edited April 10, 2015 by Matt Bacon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjordan2 Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 (edited) Well, the factory can restore a car just like anybody. There are things that the factory never did originally that many restorers have done. For example, none of the cars originally had chrome wheels. None were also originally equipped with whitewalls. Recently companies like Ferrari and MB have created restorations shops that are capable of restoring a car exactly as it originally left the factory.I've never found a definitive answer to the chrome wheel issue, and it's not listed among options in my reference material. However, the first production W198 Gullwing was unveiled at a New York show sporting chrome wheels, and an aluminum Gullwing sold recently at auction for over $4.5 million, described as having the original chrome wheels. But a purchaser could order the car any way they wanted (on a few occasions, Mercedes executives were known to advise purchasers against certain paint colors). As for whitewalls, one of the early design pencil sketches showed them. Edited April 10, 2015 by sjordan2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VRM Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 I've never found a definitive answer to the chrome wheel issue, and it's not listed among options in my reference material. However, the first production W198 Gullwing was unveiled at a New York show sporting chrome wheels, and an aluminum Gullwing sold recently at auction for over $4.5 million, described as having the original chrome wheels. But a purchaser could order the car any way they wanted (on a few occasions, Mercedes executives were known to advise purchasers against certain paint colors). As for whitewalls, one of the early design pencil sketches showed them. Skip, My sources definitively state that production cars never left the factory with chrome wheels or whitewalls, and says that all wheels were painted body colour. That does not mean that they were not available - the wheels were made under licence in Germany by Kromprinz. BMW, Mercedes, Facel Vega all used them. Mercedes used a more robust version, though they look identical. Hans Stucks 507 (later owned by Elvis) raced with MB Rudge wheels because of the strength. The alloy car you are probably talking about is 55-208. It was originally built with Rudge wheels, but not chrome ones. They were replaced with chrome (probably when it went through Hoffmans NY dealership) as invoiced and delivered to California. The show cars were another matter - the '54 car did have chrome wheels, but it is also not defined as a 'production' car and not listed as such in the factory records. The chrome wheels were never a factory option, but they were certainly a dealer option that a lot of buyers went for. I would imagine that whitewalls would have been the same sort of upgrade done at a dealer. Steve D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjordan2 Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 I have sent a question on this matter to the parts manager at the factory classic center in Irvine, CA. Regardless of the provenance, there are still dozens of Gullwings with chrome wheels, and a modeler can feel confident in using them, along with any other modifications that they would have ordered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjordan2 Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 I have sent a question on this matter to the parts manager at the factory classic center in Irvine, CA. Regardless of the provenance, there are still dozens of Gullwings with chrome wheels, and a modeler can feel confident in using them, along with any other modifications that they would have ordered. Follow-up: Over the years, I've had occasional contact with the parts manager at the Mercedes factory's Classic Center in California. Like their counterpart in Germany, they supply everything from vintage parts to complete restorations. Today I sent him the following e-mail... "Hi, Tom. It's been a long time since I bugged you, but I and many in the car model community are very excited about what looks like the best Gullwing model ever, just released by Tamiya. The question that arises is the provenance of Gullwing chrome wheels. I know the first Gullwing was introduced in New York with chrome wheels, and a recent all-aluminum car was sold at auction with "original chrome wheels," but were chrome wheels ever offered as an option or as a special-order request to Mercedes? Enquiring minds want to know if Mercedes ever supplied chrome Gullwing wheels." His reply: "Absolutely. Both the Gullwing and Roadster could be ordered with chrome wheels. There’s a separate part number for them in the parts catalogues. Same for bolt-on and rudge wheels." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Kourouklis Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 Awesome! Thankya, Skip! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VRM Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 Skip - I never said they could not be ordered with them, I said that my sources state that they never left the factory with them, thus the phrase 'not a factory option'.. Nothing you have posted contradicts anything I have posted. Either way - building a model as factory built or as invoiced and delivered is really splitting hairs. Personally, I'm going with factory built because that is the reference material I have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k.blackwell Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 Ordered mine on Amazon Tuesday for a May 26th delivery and had a happy surprise at my door yesterday evening:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjordan2 Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 (edited) Quote from VRM: "Tyres are no-name, but the tread pattern is really close to a Dunlop R5 (which was not available until '57 or '58 I think). Almost all Gullwings were originally equipped with Continentals, though some did have Dunlops." Yes, that's right. According to the Adler book and the factory-published "Faszination 300 SL" book: Standard tires were 6.70x15 Continental or Englebert, front and rear Optional tires were 6.50x15 Extra Super-Sport or racing tires Wheel rims 5.50x15 Edited April 11, 2015 by sjordan2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bennyg Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 Hi fellas. I've got my tamiya gullwing. What's the best method of doing chrome window surrounds? I was thinking bare metal foil. Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
250 Testa Rossa Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 Ordered mine through HLJ, who claims the kit is backordered. Hope that they restock soon or I'm gonna look elsewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martinfan5 Posted April 15, 2015 Author Share Posted April 15, 2015 Ordered mine through HLJ, who claims the kit is backordered. Hope that they restock soon or I'm gonna look elsewhere. If they say its backordered, that means it is backordered, how long it takes depends on how many people have backordered as well, but since its a new kit, the wait should not be too long. I believe you can get one from a Ebay seller for $43, thats including shipping, or there is Hobby Search , they have them in stock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeeBee Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 Hi fellas. I've got my tamiya gullwing. What's the best method of doing chrome window surrounds? I was thinking bare metal foil. Ben Different model, but I always use BMF to do the window trim, even if it's molded as part of the window .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bennyg Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 Different model, but I always use BMF to do the window trim, even if it's molded as part of the window .... Thanks, that looks great. Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddyfink Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 Got mine today! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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