Does 2015 mark the the end of the dark era?

[Erik Smith]

I think there was a mini dark age at the end of the 90s and through the early part of the century. AMT, after making nice models of just about everything (Pontiac Catalinas to Ford Explorers) crashed. Other makers had a few cool things, but lots of reissues.

I think, looking at what's coming, this year is a global push - and somewhat unbelievable at that. I know I won't have nearly the time to build all the cool models slated for 2015.

[gtx6970]

I think its a great time to be in the hobby. As far as dark times I dont know as I've never really looked at it that way. I like model cars,,,,If it interested me. I bought was what avail at the time and was happy about it . If it wasnt 100% correct , I didnt care and still don't. btw .

As an example the rear tires in the Revell Thunderbolt kit are way to big for a true replica of the actual car. ,,,That sure didnt stop me from buying over a dozen of them ,,,,and I have 2 built and decals to do nearly a dozen more

The 65 Plymouth and Comet,,2 cars that were never produced back in the day ,,both of which I want badly . I might even get a couple of the Pontiacs just for giggles .

Edited February 11, 2015 by gtx6970

[Motor City]

A lot of these old molds probably no longer exist. My understanding is that with these annual's molds were many times destroyed or altered to produce new molds for the next year. Case in point would be the Johan 1960 Plymouth as an example. Originally, the '60 Fury was produced, but then later the molds were altered to make the '60 Plymouth wagon. Hence, no more '60 Plymouth Fury. My guess would be that we'll probably never see a new one either. Steve

Steven,

You missed my point. The models I mentioned were in the last year of their design for that generation or, as is the case of the Cutlass, a '65 model was never produced from the '64 mold. Therefore, those molds (if they still exist) should be unaltered from the models/years I mentioned.

[Greg Myers]

Yeah, looking at this :

[StevenGuthmiller]

Steven,

You missed my point. The models I mentioned were in the last year of their design for that generation or, as is the case of the Cutlass, a '65 model was never produced from the '64 mold. Therefore, those molds (if they still exist) should be unaltered from the models/years I mentioned.

Could very well be Jim. But I still think the likelihood of ever seeing most of those you mentioned again is very minimal. If they haven't been re-issued since 1965/66..... Well, let's just say I wouldn't hold my breath. Steve

[charlie8575]

I think Erik is more right than not- we had a very questionable period for about ten years, and now, things are starting to look up again.

I've had this discussion with a few people, and I think the recession may have been what jump-started this hobby, and model-building in general, and we're now seeing the rewards of people looking for less-expensive pastimes.

R/C- expensive. Electronics and video games- can get expensive.

Charlie Larkin

[Tom Geiger]

There were some dark years for car modeling, I'd say initiated by the demise of model car magazines. We had no communications device so a lot of us assumed we were alone and lost interest. The start of the resurgence of modeling started with Gary Schmidt's start up of Scale Model Enthusiast. I know I found a copy in a bookstore in 1986 and I immediately joined my club which had a classified ad in that issue. Little did I know what I was getting myself into!

I believe the hobby has been alive and growing ever since. There was a brief period of worry when both AMT and Revell/Monogram were up for sale and we didn't know what would happen. But both entities got into the right hands and are better than ever!

I believe the model business was kept alive during the 'big bumper era', as many of the kits released in the late 1970s were based on promotional model orders from the car manufacturers. Resulting kits like the AMC Pacers and Plymouth Volares were pretty simple and scant on detail. The model companies did get better in the 1980s as kits of marginal 1:1 cars, like the Ford EXP, Dodge Omni and Chevy Cavalier are actually pretty decent models.

One thing that was predicted as the demise of modeling is the Internet. But just the opposite thing has happened! The Internet has become our communication devise with more modelers being connected through message boards and email. Researching subjects, asking questions or finding a kit or missing part has never been quicker or easier. So rather than be an agent of demise, the Internet is one thing that is helping with the growth and long term survival of our hobby!

As I said earlier in this thread, the retiring baby boomers now have more leisure time and will be buying and building model cars for the next 20 years or so at least! And of course the world is full of surprises, there's no telling what will happen next.

Edited February 12, 2015 by Tom Geiger

[Casey]

One thing that was predicted as the demise of modeling is the Internet.

I don't recall ever hearing that in the rec.models.scale Usenet newsgroup back in 1992, but I agree with your second sentence.

Now video games, those were supposed to end every previously existing hobby and pastime, and while there's no denying video games have captured a huge piece of the entertainment market, it wasn't quite the death knell some predicted.

[Tom Geiger]

Now video games, those were supposed to end every previously existing hobby and pastime, and while there's no denying video games have captured a huge piece of the entertainment market, it wasn't quite the death knell some predicted.

It's only fair to say it's not only modeling, but all the traditional hobbies are down in numbers of young people. I hear the same thing from the railroad guys, stamp and coin guys too.

As said, there are so many more activities for people today, their interests go to many other pursuits. At the same time, crafting isn't dead, big stores like Michaels and Hobby Lobby sell all kinds of craft items. I work with guys at work who are big into work working. One custom crafted a tall clock that he gave to his inlaws for their 50th anniversary. It incorporated 50 individually hand cut hearts in the design. My daughters love to create custom frames and decorate jewelry boxes for presents, and are investigating selling things on Etsy, a sales site specifically for hand crafts.

[Art Anderson]

I don't recall ever hearing that in the rec.models.scale Usenet newsgroup back in 1992, but I agree with your second sentence.

Now video games, those were supposed to end every previously existing hobby and pastime, and while there's no denying video games have captured a huge piece of the entertainment market, it wasn't quite the death knell some predicted.

I think it's interesting to look back, and remember that electronic video games and the earliest of the rechargeable electric RC cars came about just as the last of the "Baby Boom" generation was "coming of age", discovering girls and real cars. Bear in mind, that "Boomers" were the huge generation that drove the marketplace for model car kits from the late 50's onward, and that generation (demographically) is considered to have ended in December 1964 as birth rates dropped dramatically (the last of the Boomers graduated from HS in 1982, by which time the wholesale closing of public school buildings was going on in many areas of the US due to an ongoing decline in the population of school aged kids (except in those areas experiencing large growth due to a long-running "population shift". But, as late as the mid-1980's, the mind set of the hobby industry, particularly the plastic model side of things, was still that model kits were for kids!

However, quietly, there was a change underway in the demographics of the model car hobby (I was there, behind the counter to see it happening). The very late 1970's saw the beginnings of small local model car contests which weren't being run by hobby shops or sponsored by model magazines, but by the then newly forming (or in a few cases a long running model club here or there) model car clubs, with a new feature: Swap Meets (something that IPMS/USA chapters and indeed the National Organization were doing on the model aircraft/armor/ship scene, as well as the National Model Railroad Association (think HO trains here).

I opened my hobby shop on July 1, 1984, and within a few weeks I was fielding phone calls and even walk-in adult customers asking "Are there still model car kits?" "Do they make them anymore?". Couple those inquiries with the resurgence of Monogram with their newly developed line of 1/24 scale model car kits, the slow return of AMT kits from Ertl, JoHan's "USA Oldies" series, and MPC still hanging on--AND the newly (for most US car model enthusiasts in areas away from the West or East Coasts, and this hobby was off and running again.

With all that in mind, it's very hard for me to see any time period since say, 1983-84 as having been a "Dark Age" of model car kits, especially when until just recently with the resurging availability of many older AMT and MPC model car kits to store shelves and the entry of newly formed brands of model car kits in these past few years; far from it. All it takes to understand this, is to take a serious look at any large, well-stocked model car kit department in a really good hobby shop, and realize that the vast majority of the model car kits you will see were developed and brought to market in the last 30 years.

Just as with any other interest, model car kit introductions (new kits), and even the model car building "population" has seen its ups and downs, "hills and valleys" if you will for reasons which I don't fully comprehend, but it does seem to have a pretty constant following out there, otherwise there would not be the regular introduction of newly designed/tooled model kits that we see nearly every year. Consider also, that the population of just the United States is more than double what it was in 1958 when AMT Corporation sprang those first 3in1 Customizing kits on us 112-14 or so kids and a passionate, serious hobby was born.

What was once a hobby dominated by school aged kids is now an adult hobby, and I don't see that ending any time soon.

Art

[drball]

There were some dark years for car modeling, I'd say initiated by the demise of model car magazines. We had no communications device so a lot of us assumed we were alone and lost interest. The start of the resurgence of modeling started with Gary Schmidt's start up of Scale Model Enthusiast. I know I found a copy in a bookstore in 1986 and I immediately joined my club which had a classified ad in that issue. Little did I know what I was getting myself into!

I believe the hobby has been alive and growing ever since. There was a brief period of worry when both AMT and Revell/Monogram were up for sale and we didn't know what would happen. But both entities got into the right hands and are better than ever!

I believe the model business was kept alive during the 'big bumper era', as many of the kits released in the late 1970s were based on promotional model orders from the car manufacturers. Resulting kits like the AMC Pacers and Plymouth Volares were pretty simple and scant on detail. The model companies did get better in the 1980s as kits of marginal 1:1 cars, like the Ford EXP, Dodge Omni and Chevy Cavalier are actually pretty decent models.

One thing that was predicted as the demise of modeling is the Internet. But just the opposite thing has happened! The Internet has become our communication devise with more modelers being connected through message boards and email. Researching subjects, asking questions or finding a kit or missing part has never been quicker or easier. So rather than be an agent of demise, the Internet is one thing that is helping with the growth and long term survival of our hobby!

As I said earlier in this thread, the retiring baby boomers now have more leisure time and will be buying and building model cars for the next 20 years or so at least! And of course the world is full of surprises, there's no telling what will happen next.

The release of big rig kits I believe gave a shot in the arm to the industry and hobby in the mid seventies.

[DrGlueblob]

..Maybe the rise of the "middle class" in China will affect model marketing decisions soon? It'd be fun to see how developing countries with newfound disposable income might make for a large-enough market to create the same thing that happened here in the 60's.

[Can-Con]

I wonder why ERTL, and then Round 2, have re-issued so many of the same AMT models over and over again. Where are the models that should need no modification to the tooling such as the 1964 Bonneville, Grand Prix, Cutlass, and Wildcat, 1961 Bonneville and Invicta? The same goes for MPC models such as the 1965 Coronet 500, the 1966 Bonneville, Polara, and Monaco. Is it that the tooling is missing, in poor condition, or they don't think there is demand for these? I would like to see a lot of the promos from the 50s re-issued in styrene. Even cars without interiors would be cool to add to our collections.

I think anything that could be easily reissued from AMT/MPC has been already.

'66 Bonneville? ,, modified yearly until the '70 cvt. that ModelKing reissued a couple years ago.

Either the Monaco or Polara [not sure which] was modded into a full custom called the "Magnum GT II"

AMT '61 Buick Invicta was updated to the '62 Electra which was reissued not long ago.

The AMT '61 Bonneville was updated to the '62 last seen as the "Polyglass Gasser" in the late '60s. Doubt they'd reissue it even if they could find it seeing as they have the newer tooling Catalina now.

The '64 Cutlass CVT was modded into an altered wheelbase drag car. There have been some pics of the kit popping up lately so who knows on that one. IIRC, the hardtop used most of the same parts.

I do wonder about the '64 Pontiacs. There seem to be some of the parts used in them in the reissued '65s like the engines but again ??

Keep in mind that these are all "educated guesses". I'd LOVE to be proved wrong about any of them being "reissueable"

Edited February 12, 2015 by Can-Con

[Tom Geiger]

..Maybe the rise of the "middle class" in China will affect model marketing decisions soon? It'd be fun to see how developing countries with newfound disposable income might make for a large-enough market to create the same thing that happened here in the 60's.

That's a good point. The Chinese love American cars. When I asked my company contact in China if he had a car he proudly proclaimed that he had a Buick Century! It would be cool if the American model manufacturers could sell kits there, especially since their products are actually made there, making them a domestic product. The big question would be their knowledge of older American cars that predate cars being available to the general public there. There probably is a market for models of Buick Centurys and new Ford Mustangs since they are sold there.

[khier]

From the comments I could figure out there are several definitions of "darkness". The first considers the amount of new model kits released. The other is based on their quality and level of detail. The third is a measure of acceptance and popularity. A sound balance of the three is needed for a happy modelling environment.

It does not help if you have tons of uninteresting subjects released each year, while icons and milestones of automotive design and model kits are absent. How do to define the popularity of a subject? Have a look on Ebay wars for 196X Jo-Han Imperials, for example, and you will understand what I mean.

Higher kit quality is certainly desirable. But if I will have between improving the quality at the cost of new releases I prefer to have ehatever quality we had for decades than rare, high quality models.

Clearly, I am more than happy with the current trend. However, I still unable to understand how we still do not have a '61 Corvette, but two 1962 (I know I know, the Revell kit is waaaaay better than the old AMT junk). I still do not understand how we do not have any of Mitchell's 59-60 masterpieces except the Impala and Eldorado, or not a single Bonneville of the sixties (The Trumpeter kits do not count). I do not understand how we have only the '58 Plymouth and '57 Chrysler 300 out of Exner's fleet of boats. We do not have a single Toronado. Also I cannot get how it took so long to make a Del Rio, a DS, Hudsons or early 300X Chryslers.

Edited February 13, 2015 by khier

[Tom Geiger]

It does not help if you have tons of uninteresting subjects released each year, while icons and milestones of automotive design and model kits are absent. How do to define the popularity of a subject? Have a look on Ebay wars for 196X Jo-Han Imperials, for example, and you will understand what I mean.

Kits of the big cars like Johan Imperials are scarce today because they were not popular kits when they were new. The primary buyers of kits back then were kids, who all wanted the 'cool' cars, customs and hot rods, and kits like Imperials, Caddys, Lincolns and the like wound up on clearance tables in stores.

Even now, those kids grew up and their tastes haven't changed. Of the kits that Model King has sponsored, the big sellers were drag cars and other hot rods. Cars like the old AMT Comet, 1970 Buck and 1971? Thunderbird sold slowly today.

[Danno]

I have to agree with Mostly Chuck and Art ! I think the 'dark ages' ended mid-80s. The quality of experience with model kits has steadily ramped up to the point that we are (IMHO) at the pinnacle ~so far~. I can't wait to see what comes later this year . . . and next year . . . and the year after & etc.

[Art Anderson]

From the comments I could figure out there are several definitions of "darkness". The first considers the amount of new model kits released. The other is based on their quality and level of detail. The third is a measure of acceptance and popularity. A sound balance of the three is needed for a happy modelling environment.

It does not help if you have tons of uninteresting subjects released each year, while icons and milestones of automotive design and model kits are absent. How do to define the popularity of a subject? Have a look on Ebay wars for 196X Jo-Han Imperials, for example, and you will understand what I mean.

Higher kit quality is certainly desirable. But if I will have between improving the quality at the cost of new releases I prefer to have ehatever quality we had for decades than rare, high quality models.

Clearly, I am more than happy with the current trend. However, I still unable to understand how we still do not have a '61 Corvette, but two 1962 (I know I know, the Revell kit is waaaaay better than the old AMT junk). I still do not understand how we do not have any of Mitchell's 59-60 masterpieces except the Impala and Eldorado, or not a single Bonneville of the sixties (The Trumpeter kits do not count). I do not understand how we have only the '58 Plymouth and '57 Chrysler 300 out of Exner's fleet of boats. We do not have a single Toronado. Also I cannot get how it took so long to make a Del Rio, a DS, Hudsons or early 300X Chryslers.

What is "uninteresting" to one modeler (even groups of modelers often is the be-all-and-end-all of model car kits to someone else, another group, perhaps even a different nationality. As others have said already, car subjects such as American luxury cars (of the 50's and 60's, kitted in those years) very much were sales "dogs" back in the day--those never saw very large production runs. Had it not been for the fact that the tooling was already done and paid for as promotional models, chances are they'd never been produced as model kits.

For the first 25-30 years of this hobby, it was one that drew primarily boys who were old enough to dream about driving a car someday but too young to have a driver's license. While it is true that back in the 50's and 60's there were adults who bought and built plastic model car kits--they were not the driving force as to what was popular, sold well. It was kids who did that, and they (we) did that in spades. For that reason, model kits of 60's Cadillacs, Imperials, even full-sized Buicks, Mercury's, Oldsmobiles simply did not sell in numbers even close to Fords and Chevies. For that matter, model kits of Plymouths and Dodges didn't either, not until at least the mid-1960's and the coming of muscle cars and of course, Super Stock drag cars. Model kits featuring Nascar options didn't sell very well outside of the southeastern US, simply because NASCAR was not nationally televised "flag to flag" outside of their home region. (the same is true of model kits of Indianapolis cars too from those years--they sold well enough in the midwest, but in much of the rest of the country, only so-so.

In short, the kids we all once were, back then, far preferred buying and building models of cars we WISHED our dad would buy--sporty, flashy, fast cars; and tended to walk right past models of cars that looked like our parents or grandparents actually drove. With model car kits in those days, it was very much like the real thing: "You can sell an old man a young man's car, but it's very seldom you can sell a young man an old man's car" I think.

That's perhaps the primary reason that models of Lincolns, Cadillacs, Imperials, AMC's, full sized Oldsmobiles, and Buicks bring good prices today--they are a lot scarcer subjects than what you see on store shelves (or even swap meet tables at times).

It's true, of course, that recent years have seen newly tooled kits of such as 1950 Oldsmobiles, Hudsons, '55-'56 Chryslers, '57 Ford Custom 2dr sedans (even the upcoming '57 Ford Del Rio--that's us now grown up 50's and 60's kids driving the demand for those--I will submit that had any of those been tooled up 50-55 years ago, they'd have failed badly in the marketplace. And certainly, Revell Monogram took a bit of a risk introducing their '59 Cadillac Eldorado kits back in the early 1990's, even though the real cars themselves were drawing big auction crowds and high prices--would that truly translate into model kit sales, making the tooling investment worth it? They did succeed, of course. And yes, Hudsons, first generation Chrysler 300's, '57 Ford Tudor Sedans have done well, due to a changing interest among those once-kids/now middle aged adults.

And who knows? Perhaps someday down the road, there could be a similar mass interest in the once-unpopular car kit subjects that were poorly recieved back in the 1960? Stranger things have happened (and no, I'm not predicting anything--so don't ask--this is just my personal opinion!)

Art

[Tom Geiger]

And who knows? Perhaps someday down the road, there could be a similar mass interest in the once-unpopular car kit subjects that were poorly recieved back in the 1960? Stranger things have happened (and no, I'm not predicting anything--so don't ask--this is just my personal opinion!)

Back when I got into the hobby in the late 1980s, the annual kits from the 1970s and 1980s were $3-5 at swap meets. People said they'd never be worth anything, throw away models. But today a bunch of these are bringing collector money, Pacer, Volares and eventually the Cavaliers and Omnis of the world will be sought after too.

The last two issues of Hemmings Classic Car have talked about how the cars of the 1990s are now showing up at car shows and people are having that, "Wow, I haven't seen one of those in ages!" reflections. So guys who either remember these cars growing up or had them as their first cars will want to build a model of one.

[khier]

Art, who is talking about the sixties and its kids? Regardless of what the historical facts are, history is history. I am talking about the present time. I gave several examples of models that have been highly desirable over the last 10 or 20 years, but appeared very late, and there are many never appeared. If the kids of 1960 did not like a 59' Dodge Lancer, the adults of 2000, 2010 and 2015 are butchering each other on Ebay to get one. If the major force of model building in 1965 did not care about the slow and heavy Imperials, they are digging in each hole searching for one today. Practical examples, like Moebius Hdson, prove there is interest in these subjects nowadays. We have seen how Moebius was motivated by the initial success to bring the '54 model in two versions,not only one. What did keep Revell, AMT and the others to go with a similar pace after similar success? Instead of going to fill the gaps, Revell went to make another '58 Impala, Although the market is full of resin custom '49 Mercuries, Revell made a custom '49 Mercury while the modelling world was begging for a woodie (which eventually came but after years). I can go forever, but i will stop with this couple of examples, and I hope I could make my point.