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1 hour ago, CabDriver said:

I haven’t had luck with their primers/sealers - no matter what I tried I couldn’t get them to adhere to styrene well enough that I could safely mask over it.  

That's good to know. I've had the sealers work OK on bare plastic, but not involving masking. It would be a bummer to pull your tape off and have your whole paint job come with it.

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I think we have two concepts going on here in the thread. One being the title question about Autoair, then interjected is suggestions about using regular Createx. People need to note that the two are not really the same products. That said, I watched a 5 minute video from a Createx rep saying you can prime with any primer. They do have their own but the paints will go to and stick to any good primer. Then he went on to thinning. I'm gathering the Createx is thicker than Autoair by the nozzle requirement and thinner proportions. It seems their gloss improver product is only used in the Autoair but I could be wrong. I doubt it's needed anyway if clear coating. But the number at any rate I believe was 4030. And then one last note, Autoair has a true candy line, these are basically transparent colors that very obviously need a base coat under them.

All the selection of paints are not translucent in nature though, they do have an opaque line made up mostly of solid colors. FWIW.

So all this said, members were headed off to HL to buy into this line. What did you get, Createx or Autoaire ?

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Not sure about auto air but, I painted this computer case using duplicolor primer, wicked color paint a d reducer, and duplicolor clear. The colors where applied back to back with little to no dry time between them. One bottle each of paint and reducer will be enough to do several models. Only enough reducer is needed to give the paint the consistency of milk.

Hope this helps

Screenshot_20201027-085410_Facebook.jpg

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You're right James.  I did start off asking about the Auto Air  line of Createx and the discussion did go off course. Really tho, I think I may have been the cause of that because I think I asked about the diffenence in the Auto Air and Wicked Colors.  I think I've already got myself convinced that the Wicked Color would be a better choice for me. It is less expensive and seems more user friendly for my skill set and is available at Hobby Lobby.

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Ultimately regardless what paint you use, it will come out as good as the prep work and your own understanding in applying what ever brand you use. The paint itself is not the magic, learning each ones ways is.

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18 hours ago, TransAmMike said:

Thats a lot for me to digest there and I can appreciate wanting perfection.  I'm sure those concoctions are an improvement over the off the shelf thinners and likely produce optimal results but don't y'all think I can achieve  pretty good results with say the Createx reducer??  Or even just washer fluid and/ or a  lower percentage alchohol and washer fluid mix.

Go to the web site there are lots of informative videos, Also you can go to youtube and to look for videos 

 

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I've used the Auto Air and Wicked Color lines for quite a few projects and models and have had really good success with them.  Things to remember about Acrylic paints:

1.  Acrylic paints have a shelf life, don't buy more paint than you will use in 3 - 6 months time.  I've purchased some really old Auto Air and Wicked Colors opened them and found old coagulated paint inside.  I suppose you could strain it, but I always return it to where I purchased it. (Hobby Lobby exchanges it no questions, as does everywhere else I've bought Createx products.  I've got more old paint from Hobby Lobby than anywhere else.)

2.  Much of the paint work that I do with Acrylic paints are done for paying customers not myself.  So I always use the Paint Manufacturer's Recommended Reducer / Thinners and have never had any issues.  They've put a lot of science, time and effort into developing their product; why reinvent the wheel?

3.  Acrylic paint, lacking a solvent to bite into the surface like a bit of a tooth to properly adhere to so they don't like bare plastics.  Normally any good solvent base automotive primer (spray can or mix your own through an airbrush or spray gun) works it's solvent provides the bite into to the substrate and the tooth the acrylic likes as well.  Try to match the primer color with to the acrylic color, you can't go wrong with white primer, brightens up almost any color of acrylic paint.

4.  Acrylic paints, shrink in more than solvent based paints, so they require a smoother orange peel free primer surface.  I've had good luck "polishing" out prime with 1000 and 1500 grits of sand paper to prepare the surface for the acrylic paints.  Remember cheaper paints (not just acrylics) have less pigment particles in them, which is why they don't cover as well  as "better" paints; you get what you pay for; thankfully we are not talking about Createx acrylic paints.  More coats do not always equal a better paint job with acrylics, can lead to obscuring details.  If the surface is too smooth the acrylic paint will let you know by beading up, it will also let you know if the surface is too rough by showing every imperfection in the surface.  Acrylic paints do not respond well to polishing efforts, to put your effort into providing a smooth primed surface for the acrylic paint to lay down on;

5.  Clear Coats, I've had really good luck with Duplicolor (and other decanted, touch up spray can primers) and catalyzed automotive clear coats (which I generally apply through a cheaper single action airbrush for the catalyzed clear coats, you will have to experiment a little with air pressure to get what works for your application).  Polish the clear, most clear coats shrink in as they "dry" so they leave a bit of wrinkled surface as the clear cures.  Use just enough abrasive grit to get to the bottom of the clear coat imperfections working finer then polish and wax.

Sorry for long explanation but this what I normally do to get good results on my projects.  Develop a system that works for you and don't deviate from it. 

Edited by Skip

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No apology need for "long explination" Skip.  I really appreciate the detail.  So as I understand, I should do a "polishing" on the primer before laying down the color coat??  I seem to have read that too smooth a primer finish wasn't a good thing for adhesion of the top coat but it does make sense to have as smooth of a base as possible.

As for clears,  I'm not too sure about decanting since i've never done it. In fact, as I said, I havn't cleared any of my rattle can paint jobs. I did one (and only) nail polish paint job and sprayed Future over it but thats the extent of clearing I have done.  What I didn't know is you could put laquer (ex:Duplicolor) over Acrylic as I do know you can't over enamel.

Thanks Skip.

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13 hours ago, TransAmMike said:

No apology need for "long explination" Skip.  I really appreciate the detail.  So as I understand, I should do a "polishing" on the primer before laying down the color coat??  I seem to have read that too smooth a primer finish wasn't a good thing for adhesion of the top coat but it does make sense to have as smooth of a base as possible.

As for clears,  I'm not too sure about decanting since i've never done it. In fact, as I said, I havn't cleared any of my rattle can paint jobs. I did one (and only) nail polish paint job and sprayed Future over it but thats the extent of clearing I have done.  What I didn't know is you could put laquer (ex:Duplicolor) over Acrylic as I do know you can't over enamel.

Thanks Skip.

OK, Polishing was probably a poor choice of words here as it brings up the idea of "Final Polishing" a paint job; the term Color Sanding would probably have been more appropriate.  Where the goal is to be knocking down the high spots and lowering to the bottom of the low spots for a smooth, flat, level surface.  The 1000 or 1500 grit sand papers are the final color sanding grits used before shooting the acrylic.  My goal is smooth but with enough bite for the acrylic color coat to bite into and still lay smooth so no sanding scratches, orange peel, shrinkage can be seen. 

Primer does shrink and does burn the styrene a little, that's why I color sand it, if you don't it will show through the color coat and into the clear coat, so we want baby bum smooth here!  Since acrylic paint likes to follow the primed surface it will show any imperfection in the primed surface through to the color coat after the acrylic has cured and shrunk in.  You can color sand slight imperfections in acrylic, if you are very careful and use really fine grits of paper or non-wax polish, the polish is a gamble you may have to use a wax remover before shooting the clear coat.  Slight imperfections would be a dust spot, really small fine hair or lint, I've never had good luck trying to get a dog hair or beard hair out of acrylic it's just not forgiving enough, soft and thin doesn't make for a good color sanding.

You have basically established two barriers over the styrene to be able to shoot a lacquer based or other hotter top coat.  First the primer acts as somewhat of a permeable barrier to allow a normal lacquer to be shot over it.  You're taking a chance with hot lacquer over primer, it might burn and it might not, so stick to what's worked in the past.  Second the acrylic is another barrier which is far less permeable than the primer , the acrylic acts more like a sealer. 

I have never used it but have read more than once where some painters use an acrylic such as Future over the bare styrene or primer to provide a barrier to shoot a "Hot Lacquer" without burning / crazing the styrene.  I think I read once that someone used Future over silver paint to provide a bleed barrier for red styrene which kept bleeding through their color coat, (I haven't tried that one yet either), makes sense though.

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Thanks again Skip for your in-depth info.  I really do want to step-up my paint jobs and you have given me much to ponder.  I just like the idea of using acrylic more for easy cleanup than anything else.

 Humidity and temperatures here in middle Tennessee (a south of Nashville) canbe an issue and as I understand acrylic may be a little more forgiving to not so ideal conditions.  At least that's my assumption.

Getting back to Createx, the wicked color line seems to be what I want.  I don't want a lot of metallic but more of a pearl effect.  One color I am looking at is the gold to kind of replicate the early 70's Cutlass

 

 

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22 hours ago, Skip said:

I have never used it but have read more than once where some painters use an acrylic such as Future over the bare styrene or primer to provide a barrier to shoot a "Hot Lacquer" without burning / crazing the styrene.

I like Future over my Createx when I’m going to be masking and adding more layers too.  It’s super thin so it doesn’t build up a bunch of depth and obscure details, but it’s tough enough to mask over and I’ve never had ANY tape I’ve used pull it up.  But if tape WERE to pull up something, I’d rather it was clear than something nice that I’d painted...

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18 hours ago, TransAmMike said:

Thanks again Skip for your in-depth info.  I really do want to step-up my paint jobs and you have given me much to ponder.  I just like the idea of using acrylic more for easy cleanup than anything else.

 Humidity and temperatures here in middle Tennessee (a south of Nashville) canbe an issue and as I understand acrylic may be a little more forgiving to not so ideal conditions.  At least that's my assumption.

Getting back to Createx, the wicked color line seems to be what I want.  I don't want a lot of metallic but more of a pearl effect.  One color I am looking at is the gold to kind of replicate the early 70's Cutlass

 

 

Oldsmobile had three golds in 1970, all metallics. No manufacturer I know of had pearls yet in 1970, in fact pearl paint was a high expense custom job in that era, usually buried in about 10 coats of clear lacquer. Clear coating itself was an art not a standard like today. FWIW.

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25 minutes ago, Dave G. said:

Oldsmobile had three golds in 1970, all metallics. No manufacturer I know of had pearls yet in 1970, in fact pearl paint was a high expense custom job in that era, usually buried in about 10 coats of clear lacquer. Clear coating itself was an art not a standard like today. FWIW.

Granted, pearl paints were not available in 1970, but a pearl paint will give you a more "in scale" look in 1/25th scale applications than many metallics will, so in the case of model cars, pearls or "mica" colors can often be more desirable than metallics.

 

 

 

Steve

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26 minutes ago, StevenGuthmiller said:

Granted, pearl paints were not available in 1970, but a pearl paint will give you a more "in scale" look in 1/25th scale applications than many metallics will, so in the case of model cars, pearls or "mica" colors can often be more desirable than metallics.

 

 

 

Steve

Ya I get the concept Steve. Not sure it can be pulled off with Createx.

Anyone can see the Oldsmobile charts from a simple browser search. It took me about 40 seconds to find one and bring it up. Maybe Createx will match one, I doubt it but ya never know.  I bet Scale Finishes would match it though.

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I do know there were no pearl paints in the early 70's and that the Saturn Gold that was on my car was metallic. I'm with Steve in that as far as I'm concerned any automotive "touch-up" paint has too much metallic and I too feel like the pearl would give it a more "in-scale" look.  I think Createx has a metallic and a pearl in a gold color fairly similar (but not exact) to the Saturn gold but without trying them who knows really how close.  My wife who I met when owned the car back in '71 is adamant (LOL) it HAS to be the correct color.  

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3 hours ago, TransAmMike said:

I do know there were no pearl paints in the early 70's and that the Saturn Gold that was on my car was metallic. I'm with Steve in that as far as I'm concerned any automotive "touch-up" paint has too much metallic and I too feel like the pearl would give it a more "in-scale" look.  I think Createx has a metallic and a pearl in a gold color fairly similar (but not exact) to the Saturn gold but without trying them who knows really how close.  My wife who I met when owned the car back in '71 is adamant (LOL) it HAS to be the correct color.  

Well hey, the whole wife thing is a completely different story, seriously !!! Good luck with that by the way ( ya I have stories, not bad they just have their own ideas).

As to the paint, the Saturn Gold I thought I saw somewhere that listed as an iridescent paint. If that be the case you may be on to something with a pearl paint. So is it the Wicked W350 you're considering ?

Edited by Dave G.

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Yes, that is the Createx color i'm considering.  It may be a little bit too gold but if you look at the numerous pictures of the early 70's Cutlasses and 4-4-2's there is a variance, but that could just be the different camera settings and lighting.    🤪🤔

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The actual color you get can be influenced by the color you put under it, be that primer or sealer coat of some sort. You would be surprised by how much too. Always test your combo before shooting the model.

 

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Thanks Dave, I'm thinking if that Createx gold is just  a bit too golden colored, it could be "toned" down some but with what color??  I'm sure a lighter primer or a base coat maybe of white would make a difference.  

You're right, its gonna take some experimenting.

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1 hour ago, TransAmMike said:

Thanks Dave, I'm thinking if that Createx gold is just  a bit too golden colored, it could be "toned" down some but with what color??  I'm sure a lighter primer or a base coat maybe of white would make a difference.  

You're right, its gonna take some experimenting.

You can really make it easy on yourself and take Dave G's advice and just order a bottle from Scale Finishes.

There is no possible way to go wrong with their product.

 

 

gm_1971_oldsmobile_ppg_c_01.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

Steve

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29 minutes ago, TransAmMike said:

Thanks Dave, I'm thinking if that Createx gold is just  a bit too golden colored, it could be "toned" down some but with what color??  I'm sure a lighter primer or a base coat maybe of white would make a difference.  

You're right, its gonna take some experimenting.

If I decided on that particular paint I'd start my test shots over white and over black. One might hit you right away. But they are pure base colors and will give you a feel for the lightest version and darkest for that paint. It's surprising though how the highlights can change too.. It matters too how much you thin and how many coats go down. Also don't conclude anything till you clear coat your tests, that can make a tint pop that you couldn't see before it was shot with clear.

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33 minutes ago, StevenGuthmiller said:

You can really make it easy on yourself and take Dave G's advice and just order a bottle from Scale Finishes.

There is no possible way to go wrong with their product.

 

 

gm_1971_oldsmobile_ppg_c_01.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

Steve

Ya, I'm one to play with paints and make them work but it can take time, effort etc. It works best with solid colors too. And guessing by craft store charts or looking at paints in the bottle rarely gets you there. And get this, sometimes you just simply don't win in the end. Scale Finishes is a pretty sure bet .

I'm either going blind or Saturn Gold has some green in it.

Edited by Dave G.

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6 minutes ago, Dave G. said:

Ya, I'm one to play with paints and make them work but it can take time, effort etc. It works best with solid colors too. And guessing by craft store charts or looking at paints in the bottle rarely gets you there. And get this, sometimes you just simply don't win in the end. Scale Finishes is a pretty sure bet .

I agree to an extent.

I pretty much always mix my own colors for interiors and the like, but I'm a real stickler for accuracy for body colors.

Being an almost exclusively "factory stock" builder, I like to get the body color as close to correct as possible, and I figure with Scale Finishes and MCW using factory formulations, I'm not going to get it any closer by eye.

Especially when you look at a particular color on ten cars on line, and get basically ten different shades!

 

 

 

 

Steve

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