raisin27

The difference in the olds/chevy case was that GM had advertised that Oldsmobiles had the Olds "Rocket V8". Some owners felt cheated when they discovered they had Chevy motors. Even though most would have never known the difference if nobody would have told them and a case could be made that they actually got a better motor when they got the Chevy.

Harry, Personally I agree that Yukons, Hummers, ect. dont make sense for the average driver. However by the same token a hybrid owner might say that my Lincoln Town car doesnt make sense for me. I like the solid construction that a body on frame car offers (especially on Michigan roads) and the smooth quiet ride. Yes I am giving up 10 mpg compared to a Focus, but for me it is worth it. For others maybe its not. Who am I to tell the Yukon driver he cant spend his money the way he likes? As long as the Yukon meets all applical standards its not for me to say you cant have one. You seem to think I am defending GM's (or Ford and Chyrsler's ). managment. Trust me I am not. I see from the inside the idotic things that they do. But in their defense they werent forcing people to buy these Monsters, GM offers a full range of cars and trucks. from fuel sipping econoboxes to the big Hummers. There is a market (although shrinking) for these trucks, and they are profitable. From a business standpoint why pull out and leave that market to someone else? Especially considering this is one thing the big 3 do better than the imports! The extreme examples you mention are a stretch, not realistic choices just as if I were to say we dont need cars at all.........public transportation and bicycles are all anyone needs. People are turning away from the big SUV's, by choice.......not mandates and when and if enough of them decide to drive something else the market will quit making them. But till then I dont think I have the right to tell someone he cant drive a Navigator because i dont like them. I think you arent taking into account that GMC is the heavy truck arm of GM. Do you want them to stop selling heavy trucks too? As to the light trucks its going to cost GM x amount of dollars to make 100 trucks whether they are 90 Chevys and 10 GMC's or whether they are 100 Chevys. I dont see the problem with offering both and I am sure there are several Pontiac and Buick dealers that would agree. A sound business plan to recovery should include fixing the things that are wrong and continuing to do what you do right.

Harry, the reason for GMC's light truck division (all GM heavy trucks are GMC) is so that all the GM dealers can sell trucks not just Chevrolet. The trucks are made on the same assembly lines and are virtually the same vehicle so there is really no added cost in having 2 lines of trucks but it does make them avalible to more customers. As to your remarks about Hummer..........your right, nobody needs a Hummer, and I certainly dont want one. However if there are enough people out there that do want one and are willing to pay the high ownership cost and put up with the hassles why shouldnt they be allowed to have one? You mentioned in another post you might like to have a new Mustang, well nobody needs a Mustang. All that wasted horsepower, the thing barely seats 4 people, and you can get much better milage from a Focus! You can get by just fine with any number of other bare bones econoboxes. But if you want a Mustang than I think you should be able to buy a Mustang. I have always thought one of the things that made America such a great place to live was that we can buy what we like, do what we want as long as we arent breaking any laws and are willing to pay the price of admission. Now I know your going to tell me why I'm wrong!...LOL

Boy are you ever right about that! The CEO's shot themselves in the foot big time. At the very least they should have "jet pooled" and all took the same jet. They have put restrictions on us like "no color copies", closing off half the bathroom stalls, lowering the thermostats, yet they fly in the corprate jet. We have complained for a few years now about our executive vice president who lives in florida and commutes at company expense to michigan several times a week. This is the kind of arrogance that must stop.

Once again.........nobody is proposing giving anything to anyone! Whats being considered are LOANS that must be repaid. Like any lending institution the borrower must convince the lender the loan is a good risk in order to get the money. In this case that must be a sound plan to return to profitabiliy. I dont think that plan can can include limiting the auto companys to only certain markets. For instance if the industry is told as you sugested in order to get this money you must only build small fuel efficient cars then you are effectivly surrendering the one market that the US auto makers beat the imports in hands down. Personally I dont ever see truck sales returning to previous levels but there will always be a market for them and the big 3 hold a tremendous edge in this segment. A realistic plan must include retaining the truck business AND improving the car business. The big three have made great strides in improving the quality of its cars. Consumers Reports says Ford is now virtually the equal of Toyota in quality, GM is close behind, and although Chyrsler does lag behind somewhat they are still ahead of several makes that people are convinced make quality vehicles. The problem is that no matter how good a Chevy might be people PERCIEVE it as inferior. Part of the plan must be some way to convince people their products are good. I agree there must be strings attached............but realistic ones that wont hurt the companys in the marketplace. Someone wth great business sense that understands the auto market should oversee the distribution of these loans and approve who gets what based on the soundness of their plan. Here in Detroit Roger Penske's name is often mentioned as being right for the job, and I would agree. Not sure if he would be interested in taking on such a venture though.

Two things come to mind when I read these posts on GM and the others. First off most of you seem to be under the impression that that the Govt. is giving the automakers billions of dollars. They arent, they are loaning them billions of dollars. This money is to be paid back over time. The other thing is I remember is when the Govt helped Chrysler in the 80's with loan guarantees, and Harley Davidson with temporary trade restrictions on imported motorcycles. It was determined that it would cost us more if Chyrsler and H-D failed than it would to help them out. The result was Chrysler turned itself around and actually repaid the loans ahead of schedule, and Harley Davidson did the same requesting that the trade restrictions be lifted well before they were to expire. Just goes to show that sometimes things do work as they are meant to. Just because you dont work for GM you think it wont affect you if they go under? Think again, even by conservitave estimates the job loss nationwide would be in the millions. I tend to look at the auto bailout the same way i look at the banking bailout.............its not really right, but we are better off with it than without it.

I must have had that on my mind too!..............Its Dave Crane, I corrected the name in the post.

Our local model club recently spent the day at Dave Cranes garage. Dave is a great guy with a huge collection of vintage drag stuff and even more fascinating stories! He was the chief starter at the Martin Mich. U.S.131 dragstrip for many years and started "collecting" when all this stuff was just considered junk. I have never seen so many early hemis in one spot! It seemes every piece has a story behind it........I could have listened for a week! I took a bunch of pics to use as reference if anyone cares to look................... http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v19/amaz...27/Club%20Trip/ Thanks, Raisin

My vote is for AMT, although that doesnt mean I dont like Revell kits. When comparing Revells newer kits with AMT's newer kits AMT wins hands down. The 60 Starliner, 62 Pontiac, 58 Chyrsler 300, 62 Thunderbird , 58 Edsel, and a few others have details far superior to the recent Revell issues like the 55 Chevy, and 49 Merc. I recently built the 62 Pontiac and I think its probably the best engeniered kit I have ever built. The AMT kits have very nicely detailed chassis, engine, and interiors that outdo Revells offerings. This doesnt mean Revell kits are bad, far from it! The Revell 32 Fords are great. and most of there other kits can be built into fine examples of what they represent. Now if you compare AMT's older kits tooled back in the 60's to the newer Revell issues then of course Revell is a better kit. Much as a 2005 Chevrolet is better equiped and higher quality than a 1960 version. AMT is often critisized for continuing to sell these old lesser sophisticated kits, but I think its great that they are still avalible to us at reasonable prices. I mean after all more choice is better isnt it? and if you dont want to build an old tool kit nobody is making you buy it. Let me make this clear before I get a million negative comments..................I LIKE REVELL KITS!, I just think AMT's (newer) kits are a bit bgetter designed. Raisin

Heres a pic of the chassis for the Starliner. This a beautifully detailed chassis straight out of the box, but I added fuel and brake lines along with a parking brake assembly made from evergeen stock and craft wire. Tires are from the AMT 58 Edsel, and the factory full wheel covers are from Modelhaus. Thanks for looking, Raisin

Thanks guys, The spark plug boots are made from insulation that I stripped off of some coimputer "eathernet" wire. Raisin

That is one cool project, very creative and well done. Raisin

Havent done a factory stock for awhile so I thought I would give it a go. Doing it as a car my dad bought new back in 60. He told me that he had bought a 59 Ford just the year before but it was a real dog. When the 352/360 package came out he traded in the 59. This is the first car I remember from my childhood. I was 4 when my dad bought the Starliner and i remember sleeping on the huge back shelf when we went on trips. Its a wonder any of us survived the 60s! Started with the motor, a 352 ci / 360 hp big block. I noticed in the pic that I forgot the oil dipstick so I added that along with raising the air cleaner about .030". I think the motor in this kit along with the one in the 62 Thunderbird are the best representations of the FE ford motor out there, very detailed and accurate. Next up, the chassis...... Thanks for looking, Raisin

Like just about anyone my age I built models as a kid but pretty much stopped when I got old enough for a real car. Never really thought much about models after that, and then about 30 years later I just happen to be walking along the toy isle in a miejers store and noticed a model of a 60 Ford Starliner. Well the 60 Starliner has always been my favorite car, but I never knew anyone else even heard of one, let alone produce a model of it! There was no way to resist buying it! I looked the kit over when I got home and noticed it was much more detailed than what I built as a kid. About a year after that I decided to build it...........it turned out awful! I bought another one, built it and it turned out much better. That was about 4 years ago and Ive been at it ever since. Raisin

I believe the car only ran one time with that paint scheme. I found this posted on a drag racing board.............. http://www.draglist.com/stories/SOD-Jan-2003/SOD-011103.htm

The Munster coach first appeared in "Rock-A-Bye Munster. The Dragula was only in one episode "Hot Rod Herman"

It was great meeting you George, glad you decided to join. Raisin

A sad day indeed, I met Bob at the KC Slammers show this year. He truly seemed to care about the hobby and the people in it. What an great man he was. My heartfelt condolenses to his family and all who knew him. Raisin

Nice and clean......excellent! Raisin

Welcom aboard, Seeing these great Thunderbolts is making me want to build one! Looking forward to seeing those transam cars too. Raisin

Your right.........those are some SERIOUS injecter stacks! Nice job. Raisin

Some really great stuff there, and you know...........I really dont mind that everyone elses stuff looks better than mine. It gives me something to shoot for!! Raisin

Interesting piece, I look forward to seeing it. Raisin

thank you Spike for the offer, I did find a plate though. Thanks again, Raisin

Started this over a year ago. Got the chassis, motor, and interior done. The body is ready for decals and foil, but my decal source dried up on me si I ended up putting it away for awhile. Was wondering if there is anyone out there who might know where I could get some decals to finish it up? Thanks , Raisin