aurfalien Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 Hi, Please excuse my many posts, but I iz a barny. At any rate, can I assume that a Fujimi GT40 68' LeMans winner Gulf Livery #9 is an Mk1? I can't find much on a #9 car but Wikipedia does say in 68' Mk1 cars were raced and won LeMans.
Matt Bacon Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 http://blog.thehenryford.org/2014/03/gt40-1075-a-two-time-le-mans-champion/ It's actually a Mirage. Based on a GT40 Mk1, but you need to flare the rear wheel arches more, because the BRM wheels they ran tracked wider. bestest, M.
Cato Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 Chassis 1075. http://blog.thehenryford.org/2014/03/gt40-1075-a-two-time-le-mans-champion/
MrObsessive Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 Weren't the front fenders wider as well? That's what prevented me from ever building that kit-----the body's not quite correct to me to represent a Gulf car. Just hasn't struck my fancy to want to sink the work into it-----------yet!
Matt Bacon Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 Well, the refs I have mention a "wider rear clamshell"; I think also that the Mirage cabin was smaller, and more tapered toward the roof. Not sure about the front end -- it's just described as "smoother". bestest, M.
Ace-Garageguy Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 (edited) The '68 winner, ol' 1075, appears to be bodied as a Mk I. Also, please to notice the later Mirage-body cabin is entirely different from the GT40 it's based on. Rather lots of other differences too. Mirage: GT40 Mk I: (I think) Edited June 18, 2015 by Ace-Garageguy
Ace-Garageguy Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 (edited) There are so many versions of the GT40s around, it's sometimes wise to go to a known good source for info. Try this. http://www.gt40gulfliverycars.com/home.html Edited June 18, 2015 by Ace-Garageguy
unclescott58 Posted June 19, 2015 Posted June 19, 2015 Bill - Ace, you've got your GT-40s identified correctly. The top and bottom ones you show are the modified Mk Is use in '68 and '69. The Mk IIs can be quickly identified by two extra scoops on the rear deck. Mk III is a street version with round headlamps and a longer rear deck. Mk IV is a totally different car all together. And then there are Mirages. They look like Mk Is with pinched in cabins. And are not included as true GT-40s, as Ford had nothing to do with them directly. I love the GT-40s. Including the Mk IIIs and IVs. I like the Mk IIs the best. The Mirage just doesn't look right to me. They did not have the success on the track, like the other race prepped GT-40s. And I don't know why, since they were basically the same cars beyond the cabin? Scott
unclescott58 Posted June 19, 2015 Posted June 19, 2015 Oh, by the way, the Fujimi GT-40s are great kits. Despite being curb sides. Just in the last week I finished my Fujimi Mk I. My Fujimi Mk II should be done sometime next week. And my MPC Mk IV in the next day or two. The MPC Mk IV has a lot more detail than the Fujimi kits. But, it's lot more difficult to build, and has a lot of things that are not correct on it. It is turning out to be a nice model though. Scott
Ace-Garageguy Posted June 19, 2015 Posted June 19, 2015 According to the lore, the GT40s raced by John Wyer in Gulf livery were no longer called "Fords", but were renamed Mirages, even with the Mk I bodywork. Then there were, of course, the Mirages that looked like Mirages. Some say 1075 is supposed to have been built on a "new" Mirage chassis, even though it carries GT40 Mk I bodywork (modified, and partially carbon fiber) and is usually identified as a GT40. Some say 1075 was built entirely as a Ford GT40, but Ford had abandoned this type of racing when the car was built...by JWA (John Wyer Automotive). Either way, to me, 1075 is and always will be the quintessential road-racing car, and my all-time favorite automobile. Years ago, I was on the list for a continuation GT40, to have been built in England by Safir. My finances collapsed and I don't know if the English continuation series ever materialized, but I understand that now, there is an "exact" continuation series licensed by Safir, being built by Superformance. I saw an example at a recent event at Road Atlanta, and other than the bodywork being considerably heavier fiberglass than the real race-cars ran, it looked very very good. There is, or was, also an exquisite full-detail aftermarket set for the Fujimi kits. I've seen one built up, and it was stunning.
Cato Posted June 19, 2015 Posted June 19, 2015 Lee Holman is still producing the MK II. For a million a pop.
Ace-Garageguy Posted June 19, 2015 Posted June 19, 2015 (edited) For a million a pop... Well, it won't be in this year's Christmas stocking then. Course, the engine-less Superformance "exact" clone is only a buck and a quarter...but that's still too rich for me these days. Edited June 19, 2015 by Ace-Garageguy
keyser Posted June 19, 2015 Posted June 19, 2015 Chassis 1075 won both 68 and 69 LM24's. No other chassis has done so. Mirages are GT40's, too much essential componentry the same, or derivative. Mk. II and IV farther from original in many ways than the Mirage. Gulf-Wyer didn't change heritage. Agree, amazing chassis. Fujimi kits the 68 and 69 iterations of 1075, nicely.
unclescott58 Posted June 19, 2015 Posted June 19, 2015 This all brings up a question. Has anybody ever offered a model of a Mirage? Scott
Matt Bacon Posted June 19, 2015 Posted June 19, 2015 (edited) Yeah... I think I was misinterpreting what my references said. #1075 was a new-build based on a Mirage tub, but with a GT40 Mk1 body (made, as Ace says, with carbon-reinforced fibreglass panels). So the cabin is not the narrow Mirage cabin. However, both "Ford vs Ferrari" and my Haynes GT40 manual, plus that online reference I posted agree that it had a "wider rear clamshell". You can see the hips flare in the third of Ace's images there. Not sure what's going on in the first one -- the angle's not great, and it does look a bit dinged up around the rear wheel arch! As for the Mirage, Le Mans Miniatures did one: but it's out of production and seriously had to find... bestest, M. Edited June 19, 2015 by Matt Bacon
afx Posted June 19, 2015 Posted June 19, 2015 (edited) Fujimi offers both the wide and the narrow rear body panel versions of the GT40 Mk1. Lots of GT40 kit information here. Edited June 19, 2015 by afx
ZTony8 Posted June 19, 2015 Posted June 19, 2015 1075 GT now resides at the Henry Ford Museum at Greenfield Village.I'll be at the Motor Muster at the Village on Sunday and if the weather is lousy I'll head over to the Museum for a visit and scope 1075 out some more.
Matt Bacon Posted June 19, 2015 Posted June 19, 2015 Shoulda looked in my stash! I can confirm that the Fujimi GT40 P1075 Le Mans 1969 boxing does indeed have the wider-flared rear wheel arches on the clamshell part... bestest, M.
Cato Posted June 19, 2015 Posted June 19, 2015 Rick Muck is an SPF dealer on here and can answer any questions on the replicas. Pete J has been in the Holman continuation car.
djflyer Posted June 19, 2015 Posted June 19, 2015 (edited) It doesn't appear that Fujimi (or any of the re-boxes) offers what's been referred to as the Mk.1 nose - the design after the protorype chassis and before the first Mk 2's. Supposedly the best replica of chassis 1075 was done by Thunder Valley, but good luck finding one. I believe that MiniExotics and one of the Japanese resin makers also had a Mirage, but both are also very hard to find. The best option seems to be adapting one of the available slot-car bodies to the Fujimi chassis. Another good reference for GT40's is this site: http://gt40.net/ Edited June 19, 2015 by djflyer
Deano Posted June 19, 2015 Posted June 19, 2015 (edited) A Japanese company called 'Joker' did a resin transkit of the Mirage. I wasn't aware of Mini Exotics doing one. I have a Thunder Valley kit around here somewhere. I'll post photos as soon as I dig these up. Edited June 19, 2015 by Deano
unclescott58 Posted June 19, 2015 Posted June 19, 2015 It doesn't appear that Fujimi (or any of the re-boxes) offers what's been referred to as the Mk.1 nose - the design after the protorype chassis and before the first Mk 2's. Supposedly the best replica of chassis 1075 was done by Thunder Valley, but good luck finding one. I believe that MiniExotics and one of the Japanese resin makers also had a Mirage, but both are also very hard to find. The best option seems to be adapting one of the available slot-car bodies to the Fujimi chassis. Another good reference for GT40's is this site: http://gt40.net/ The nose you see on the models here are the common one used on the Mk Is that were raced. There was a prototype nose on some of the earlier cars. But, the aerodynamics of that nose had some problems. The Fujimi kits of the different Mk Is are very accurate. If you want a kit with the earlier nose, you need to find the old Aurora kit. The Aurora kit in recent years has been put out under the Revell banner. So it can still be found fairly easily. Scott
djflyer Posted June 19, 2015 Posted June 19, 2015 (edited) The nose you see on the models here are the common one used on the Mk Is that were raced. There was a prototype nose on some of the earlier cars. But, the aerodynamics of that nose had some problems. The Fujimi kits of the different Mk Is are very accurate. If you want a kit with the earlier nose, you need to find the old Aurora kit. The Aurora kit in recent years has been put out under the Revell banner. So it can still be found fairly easily. Scott Scott - I have an old Monogram slot body of the roadster with the "prototype" nose - looks closest to chassis GT109 as it ran at LeMans, but will still need alot of work to be accurate. The nose I was referring to is the coupe that ran Daytona in 1965. It supposedly was different than the prototypes. Most of the reference material I have indicates the design that was developed for the Mark 2 was more or less standardized for every competition car that ran from 1965 on, except for the Mark 4's. One picture also refers to a "2b" design where the brake ducts are included in the radiator opening, but doesn't identify which cars actually used it. Deano - I have an old MiniExotics list that includes a Mirage as well as a J-car and a GT40 roadster, presumably a Mark 2. Having never seen any I can't swear to exactly what was produced. Edited June 19, 2015 by djflyer
Junkman Posted June 20, 2015 Posted June 20, 2015 (edited) 1075 is not a Mirage. It's a GT40 MKI with a 289 engine. Ford ended its involvement at Le Mans after 1967, but other teams continued to field GT40s. Ford’s domination with the big 427 engined MKIVs provided a break for the smaller 289. The big engines regularly pushed cars past 200 miles per hour on the Le Mans circuit and French officials, fearing a catastrophic accident on a track designed for slower speeds, imposed a 305-cubic inch limit for 1968. The Mark I’s 289 cubic inches suddenly didn’t seem too few. John Wyer Automotive Engineering dominated the next two racing seasons with Mark I cars, including chassis 1075. It's a MKI with flared wheelarches and the Fujimi kit is a very faithful representation. Mexican Pedro Rodriguez and Belgian Lucien Bianchi drove 1075 to its first Le Mans win in 1968. It was the third win in a row for a Ford car, but the first for the original Mark I design. Car 1075 came back to Le Mans in 1969, this time with Belgian Jacky Ickx and Brit Jackie Oliver at the wheel. Car 1075 traded the lead with a Porsche 908 constantly during the last 2½ hours. On the last lap, the Mark I crossed the finish line a mere 100 yards ahead of the Porsche – in a race of more than 3,100 miles. With that second win, car 1075 earned its place in history. This is a photo of the very car as it was exhibited at the Henry Ford Museum: Edited June 20, 2015 by Junkman
aurfalien Posted June 20, 2015 Author Posted June 20, 2015 (edited) I went on 1999.co.jp/eng to compare Mk1 vs MkII models. Check out the rear flares, looks way cooler on the Mk1. Plus you can get a killer engine for it from HRM. I see how its Mirage-esque as you all are saying. Too bad one can't get the LMM Mirage, it looks bitchen. Edited June 20, 2015 by aurfalien
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