How about skill level 4?

[b-body fan]

I was thinking it would bee cool if someone offered a kit with a nice detail set included. Maybe a wired distributor, some calipers, rotors, backing plates, some line and hose material, flocking, etc. I personally would pay pretty good money for it. By the time you round everything up you probably have more than twice the original kit price with shipping or trips to the store. Thought I'd see what you folks think. Thanks, Mike.

[Harry P.]

It's been tried with the "Pro Modeler" series. People weren't willing to pay a premium price for premium content. The "Pro Modeler" series is history.

Model car builders are notoriously cheap. Most of them complain about the price of kits... they'd never pay even more for a "premium" kit.

 

[Eshaver]

It would scare off enough Retail buyers enough to have a negative number on a company's Bottom Line . Kits are already pushing a US Grant . To me , that is scary. I got into this back in 1960 and even 1.39 was a stretch on my meager lawn jobs .

Now with a Skill 3, we can already assume some difficult assembly and fitment issues ............................

 

[Crazy Ed]

   Hey Michael have you looked into Model Factory Hiro's Full Detail Kits? LOTS of little goodies to keep ya busy!

[ERIK88]

I agree us model builders are cheapskates, the majority of us don't have enough of a disposable income to buy a " premium" kit. If we did we probably would be buying the actual cars in 1:1 and not 1/24 ! . I think there are  enough household items and everyday items to be able to detail engines like electrical wiring, fittings, even evergreen styrene. I personally do not wanna pay more than $15 for a kit even to this day. I can't justify spending more than maybe $18 on a really good kit. This is why I don't shop at local hobby stores, use 40% coupons at michaels an hobby lobby, and shop eBay. I have been able to buy over 250+ kits in the past three years many rate for under $15. A skill level 4 at a premium price would drive the price to more insane levels than what they already are. 

Although I must say, it takes a lot of work to find bargain prices models, it is a rarity , but when you find those deals its best to act quickly. I've wasted a lot of time just bargain hunting for kits online, rummage sales, flea markets, secondhand stores. What's funny about this is that many would consider this opportunity cost to defeat the purpose of saving Money, but actually find it enjoyable and probably accounts for 45% of the fun of this hobby! 

[b-body fan]

  On 8/5/2015 at 11:28 PM, Crazy Ed said:

   Hey Michael have you looked into Model Factory Hiro's Full Detail Kits? LOTS of little goodies to keep ya busy

I'll check it out. Thanks.

[ERIK88]

what if level 4 included your own 3d files to incorporate 3d printed parts in your base model to keep costs down? Lol

[SfanGoch]

  On 8/6/2015 at 12:45 AM, ERIK88 said:

what if level 4 included your own 3d files to incorporate 3d printed parts in your base model to keep costs down? Lol

Have you checked out the prices for 3D printed parts? You won't be cutting costs that way. The cost per part goes up if you choose a better finish quality and type of material. 

[bobthehobbyguy]

Its been tried more than once by monogram with the performance series corvette, firebird. Also the ultimates had photoetch for the cobra and corvette. Amt also included photoetch with the newly tooled stock 57 chevy.

Check out scalemotorsports c5 racing corvette.

For it to make sense it will have to be a small aftermarket vendor for it to work. Just too limited a market for amt or monogram,

[slusher]

I always believed the skill level was mostly about the number of parts in a kit. 

[uncle potts]

Don't we already have that wih Pocher?

[b-body fan]

  On 8/6/2015 at 1:24 AM, uncle potts said:

Don't we already have that wih Pocher?

I didn't mean that premium. I was thinking more along the line of  their regular level 2 or 3 kids with some extra stuff. Maybe your usual $25 kit for $35 or so. Not rivet counting crazy, just the usual things most of us do to most of the kits we build.

  On 8/6/2015 at 1:20 AM, slusher said:

I always believed the skill level was mostly about the number of parts in a kit. 

Me ttoo. 

[Belugawrx]

Skill level is not based on a number,.....

[Quick GMC]

  On 8/5/2015 at 6:47 PM, b-body fan said:

I was thinking it would bee cool if someone offered a kit with a nice detail set included. Maybe a wired distributor, some calipers, rotors, backing plates, some line and hose material, flocking, etc. I personally would pay pretty good money for it. By the time you round everything up you probably have more than twice the original kit price with shipping or trips to the store. Thought I'd see what you folks think. Thanks, Mike.

Twice the price? I'd say if you had to buy a sprecific detail set for the vehicle, plus miscellaneous goodies like hose clamps, belt stuff, brakes, mis. engine stuff, wiring, etc. you'd be around $100 per model. This isn't bad considering it takes a while to build something like that. 

The Revell Corvette Grand Sport has PE included, the Monogram Ultimates 1:43 has a full blown PE detail set. 

There are so many aftermarket things out there already, especially the domestic stuff from Model Car Garage, it doesn't make any economical sense. They could do in house design and PE production, which will add to their bottom line, source it from someone like MCG, which will add to their bottom line. Kit prices are going up and they are already high. It's a great idea, but it isn't feasible. 

[Aaronw]

Eduard offers a lot of their aircraft kits in three levels:

Weekend builds - plastic parts, no aftermarket, one decal option.

Profi pack - includes the most popular aftermarket items made by Eduard for the kit (generally some PE parts and a few bits of resin) to add detail beyond the basic plastic kit level, plus 3 to 5 decal options.

Royale - Pretty much all the aftermarket items made by Eduard for the kit and a load of decal options

 

Royale kits are limited, not something offered for every kit they sell, most of their kits are available in either weekend or Profi packs. 

 

No reason this couldn't work with model cars, although the cheap skate reputation is a legitimate issue. Aircraft and armor builders seem to be much more willing to part with their money, and it shows in the kits offered to them.

[SfanGoch]

The Eduard sets are re-boxed kits from other manufacturers like Academy with, as you pointed out, a few resin parts and usually  PE thrown in. For this, you pay what I would consider too much money for what are essentially sub par models to begin with. 

I primarily build military subjects. A Voyager TUSK II conversion set for the Dragon 3536 M1A2 Abrams SEP set me back 128 bucks. Toss in a set of Bronco T158 Bigfoot tracks to replace the gawdawful DS Tracks included with the kit and you're already looking at way over two bills including the kit itself. To be honest, It'd be nice if car kits were available with the works included and I'd pay the extra cash for that.

[Agent G]

^^What he said^^

 

Dragon's new Tunisian Tiger set me back $79.99. I added a set of Fruilmodel metal tracks, see above comment, that I was lucky enough to score off EBay for $35.00. Add to that additional PE from Eduard, $26.00 of which I will use a fraction and a set of metal tow cables at $ 15.99.

Roughly $157.00 before ever cutting parts off the sprue.  

This is not counting the Tamiya paints I will need to mix the proper colors. The base shade of brown requires three different colors of paint, the green camo requires two.

G

[Atmobil]

Yes, as a member of IPMS I have seen many military and planebuilders go crazy on the aftermarket detail bits and they can easily make a big and already expensive kit in to a much more expensive kit. We are probably talking about 200-300$ range for many of the models.

And the higher skill level has been tried, Gunze High-Tec kit is one example I can think of where you got white metal parts and photoetch in the kits and like Eduard does with many of their aircraft kits I think it could be done with car kits aswell. I would buy a extra detail kit if it was possible even if it ment that it would be a lot more expensive but maybe I'm just not a cheapskate?

[Tom Geiger]

First I'll say that the logic expressed above by the military modelers doesn't apply to our market because military modelers aren't as cheap as our US car builders, so you are giving the logic of what you will pay for an accurate military model and you'd pay that for a car.  The same with comparing Gunze / Japanese, especially exotic cars and such-- again the folks that work in that arena are used to spending a decent amount to have an accurate model.

Enter our herd...  US based modelers who primarily build US replicas and hot rods. This is a pretty cheap group.  Note the constant whining about kit prices on the boards.  Note the constant mention of going to Hobby Lobby with the 40% off coupon.   That's who we are!  And as such,  high end kits with all the bells and whistles would delight a few, but wouldn't be consumed by the typical modeler in our demographic.  

That happened when Galaxie originally did the 46-8 Chevys.  Here Gary (and I believe it was Tom West) designed a seriously detailed kit, nice enough that the built chassis can be displayed by itself.  They were answering the cry from auto modelers that we needed a higher end, very detailed kit and we'd pay extra for that.  Well, WE LIED!  Once the kits came out, there was a lot of moaning and grumbling about the price, which was a step above the AMT / Revell kits of that time.  And they didn't sell well.  At the time we noticed that we didn't see a lot of them built at contests, and we didn't see parts like the fabulous Chevy 6 from that kit used in kit bashes. I remember  people posting on the boards asking if the kits would go to Odd Lot stores so they could buy them cheap. Those who did buy the kits bought just one.

The Galaxie kit is an ancient example, especially since I believe that the new R/M and Moebius kits done today are at that design level.  So the market may be ready for the new variations of this kit that Galaxie is releasing now.

 

Edited August 6, 2015 by Tom Geiger

[John Clutch]

Im a manager now, but a metal fabricator by trade. Most know Im new to this, considering its been 30 years since I built a model. So the fabrications is where its at for me. Im working on a 1/16 Charger and have been carving up the "lego" hemi block for a week now with a #11 and Im loving it! It might not be 100% correct but it looks better than what the kit came with, and Im pretty proud of it. I think alot of modelers enjoy making their own parts. Some might not have the skills or tooling to do what they really want, but Im sure thats a very low percentage of the community, which I feel a level 4 kit would be aimed at.

[blunc]

I think the idea of "trans-kit" detail sets may be the answer, a kit that has all the parts to go to what ever detail level you wish to attempt.

It would be like a shopping list from an online seller...

I know there are detail master PE sets for a LOT of kits (an amazing resource), wheel sets from various makers, various pre-wired distributor sellers...but a person would need to know all these sources and be knowledgeable enough to choose all the right parts.

A web site where you can select a complete or partial detail set for a particular kit without having to hunt through several sellers sites might fill a modeling niche market.

I have seen a couple sites that carry most items needed for most detailing areas but I haven't seen anyone offer an easy to select (and kit specific) option as described.

A question to be answered will be whether model builders would pay the extra cost to have someone else do all the work for a "laundry list" of detail items to build a 67 Shelby 350 with proper options, engine, interior and chassis details including PE for all areas.

[1930fordpickup]

I was thinking that was that early 56 Chevy kit by Revell and some of the IMC kits were aimed at this. 

[b-body fan]

  On 8/6/2015 at 3:31 PM, blunc said:

I think the idea of "trans-kit" detail sets may be the answer, a kit that has all the parts to go to what ever detail level you wish to attempt.

It would be like a shopping list from an online seller...

I know there are detail master PE sets for a LOT of kits (an amazing resource), wheel sets from various makers, various pre-wired distributor sellers...but a person would need to know all these sources and be knowledgeable enough to choose all the right parts.

A web site where you can select a complete or partial detail set for a particular kit without having to hunt through several sellers sites might fill a modeling niche market.

I have seen a couple sites that carry most items needed for most detailing areas but I haven't seen anyone offer an easy to select (and kit specific) option as described.

A question to be answered will be whether model builders would pay the extra cost to have someone else do all the work for a "laundry list" of detail items to build a 67 Shelby 350 with proper options, engine, interior and chassis details including PE for all areas.

I agree. Many of us spend it anyway. It would be nice to cut out some of the leg work. Even a less specific parts pack would be good with the more general items like I mentioned in the original post.

[Atmobil]

  On 8/6/2015 at 2:51 PM, Tom Geiger said:

First I'll say that the logic expressed above by the military modelers doesn't apply to our market because military modelers aren't as cheap as our US car builders, so you are giving the logic of what you will pay for an accurate military model and you'd pay that for a car.  The same with comparing Gunze / Japanese, especially exotic cars and such-- again the folks that work in that arena are used to spending a decent amount to have an accurate model.

Enter our herd...  US based modelers who primarily build US replicas and hot rods. This is a pretty cheap group.  Note the constant whining about kit prices on the boards.  Note the constant mention of going to Hobby Lobby with the 40% off coupon.   That's who we are!  And as such,  high end kits with all the bells and whistles would delight a few, but wouldn't be consumed by the typical modeler in our demographic.  

That happened when Galaxie originally did the 46-8 Chevys.  Here Gary (and I believe it was Tom West) designed a seriously detailed kit, nice enough that the built chassis can be displayed by itself.  They were answering the cry from auto modelers that we needed a higher end, very detailed kit and we'd pay extra for that.  Well, WE LIED!  Once the kits came out, there was a lot of moaning and grumbling about the price, which was a step above the AMT / Revell kits of that time.  And they didn't sell well.  At the time we noticed that we didn't see a lot of them built at contests, and we didn't see parts like the fabulous Chevy 6 from that kit used in kit bashes. I remember  people posting on the boards asking if the kits would go to Odd Lot stores so they could buy them cheap. Those who did buy the kits bought just one.

The Galaxie kit is an ancient example, especially since I believe that the new R/M and Moebius kits done today are at that design level.  So the market may be ready for the new variations of this kit that Galaxie is releasing now.

 

Interesting that you should mention the Galaxie Chevy kit. I owned one of those kits once but only for about 30 minutes. I bought it from a fellow club member at a meeting and then sold it again to another member. The guy who bought it from me usually builds military and aircraft models and he has often described many of the older AMT/MPC/Revell/Monogram (and other equals), kits that we car modellers usually build, as rubbish/bad kits but when he looked in the Galaxie kit he said it was a very nice kit and he wanted to build it and asked if he could buy it from me.

Now, this does not take in to account the price as the money that changed hands at that meeting was far less than what the kit cost new but the kit that was very detailed did create enough spark for him that he wanted it. Maybe this means that the ones that are happy with an old AMT reissue with lots of flash also think that models should be cheap and the once that like accurate, crisp kits are prepaired to pay for it if they can find it?

I don't know the answer to that, it is just a specualtion from my side.

[b-body fan]

On the same token some consistency in the kits companies offer to begin with would be nice. Obviously Johan in defunct, I opened one of their older kits that I was pretty excited about and lost all interest in about 1 minute. It was horrible. I had another one of their trophy series kits and it was a beautiful kit. No slam on Johan, just an example. Sorry I may have gone on a tangent there.