Kit Bashing - The Art of Rivet Counting

[mike 51]

Yeah Bill, straighten up!

....and lose that smile too buster...

[Chuck Most]

The "rivet counters" (for want of a better term) always seem to be quick to point out a kit's flaws and are extremely vocal about such things, but I'm convinced that the majority of modelers simply don't care. They don't care about a few proportional inaccuracies, they don't care if the separation line between the cowl and fender aren't there, they don't care if the kit includes some goofy and/or inaccurate feature or component that wasn't offered on that car in that model year,, or what not.

I'm not saying these folks "don't care" in a bad way, I'm just saying... well... they don't care. Things like that don't bother them, they just want something that looks like a 1957 Wimbildon Whatzit hardtop. If the kit does that one thing decently enough, it's good enough to get their money. Has there ever been a completely accurate kit? No. So rather than go on and on about how kits "should" be perfectly accurate (despite the fact that we're a good 60 years into the hobby and said perfectly accurate kit has yet to exist), they keep doing what they've always done- having fun with the kit, and maybe even fixing a few of those inaccuracies along the way. Or not. 

It's like those "why don't they make a kit of fill-in-the-blank" subjects that get dragged out into the sun every other week. There may be a very VOCAL segment who would like that kit, but that group is a minority. The guys who want a 100% accurate kit aren't much different, the way I see it. Small but very vocal minority. There may be 20 people who say they'd love to have a full-detail American Bantam kit and will bring up this fact at every opportunity, but consider they might be the only 20 people who'd actually spring for one. Maybe the people who REALLY want a 100% accurate kit are a small number of a small number... let's face it, automotive modeling ain't quite as popular as it once was.

Now, having said all of that, is it wrong to point out a kit's flaws? Nope. Isn't, wasn't, never will be. But on the flip side, it's not wrong to accept a kit's flaws. To be honest, I think people on both sides of the fence just need to agree to disagree and stop being such babies about the whole matter. 

Edited September 6, 2015 by Chuck Most

[Ace-Garageguy]

  On 9/6/2015 at 12:03 AM, midnightprowler said:

Well Bill, if this kind of thing is that important, I feel sorry for you.

 

I do sincerely hope that feeling sorry for me makes you feel as superior and justified as must be necessary to your continued existence as you know it.

As Mr. Most said above, and with whom I agree in entirety, ..."is it wrong to point out a kit's flaws? Nope. Isn't, wasn't, never will be. But on the flip side, it's not wrong to accept a kit's flaws."

Funny thing here, though I posted the incendiary notification that the Revell '29 Ford nailhead was indeed flawed, I also "accepted" it, voted with my wallet and bought one, posted positive remarks about it AFTER actually having one in my hands, and have ordered two more.

Who's being the baby?

There's lots of nice kits out there. Many have instantly visible flaws. Many of you just don't care. I get it. 

[blunc]

  On 9/5/2015 at 11:01 PM, midnightprowler said:

I posted that, as I can't get my point across to you just how trivial some of this tripe is Bill.

not helpful nor addressing the thread topic.

fail!

[MrObsessive]

Well, my handle on this board speaks for itself. If I'm passionate about a particular car, I may try to fix its flaws------otherwise I'll let it alone.

Body lines/roof contours are a big thing with me.......something about them being off changes the whole character of the car IMO.

Just the same, I can live with engine details not being quite right, options that should be on the car but aren't, etc.

It all depends on whether that particular car strikes a chord with me or not.

Don't get me started on RC2's horrific '58 Plymouth......pages and pages of comments went on forever about that one!

[Aaronw]

I think this thread does a good job illustrating the point. Leave it at the details, and let others decide for themselves if it is important or not. That is were the personal stuff and name calling usually begins.

[detailstymied]

syntax much?

[Agent G]

I do find it interesting that in this digital world, with references galore, prototypes to examine and state of the art hardware/software, major errors seem to abound.

It has happened in the armor modeling world as well as the automotive lately.

Curious.

Are we more intolerant of error that has been with us all this time, or is this a modern phenomena?

G

[mikemodeler]

  On 9/6/2015 at 12:19 AM, Chuck Most said:

The "rivet counters" (for want of a better term) always seem to be quick to point out a kit's flaws and are extremely vocal about such things, but I'm convinced that the majority of modelers simply don't care. They don't care about a few proportional inaccuracies, they don't care if the separation line between the cowl and fender aren't there, they don't care if the kit includes some goofy and/or inaccurate feature or component that wasn't offered on that car in that model year,, or what not.

I'm not saying these folks "don't care" in a bad way, I'm just saying... well... they don't care. Things like that don't bother them, they just want something that looks like a 1957 Wimbildon Whatzit hardtop. If the kit does that one thing decently enough, it's good enough to get their money. Has there ever been a completely accurate kit? No. So rather than go on and on about how kits "should" be perfectly accurate (despite the fact that we're a good 60 years into the hobby and said perfectly accurate kit has yet to exist), they keep doing what they've always done- having fun with the kit, and maybe even fixing a few of those inaccuracies along the way. Or not. 

It's like those "why don't they make a kit of fill-in-the-blank" subjects that get dragged out into the sun every other week. There may be a very VOCAL segment who would like that kit, but that group is a minority. The guys who want a 100% accurate kit aren't much different, the way I see it. Small but very vocal minority. There may be 20 people who say they'd love to have a full-detail American Bantam kit and will bring up this fact at every opportunity, but consider they might be the only 20 people who'd actually spring for one. Maybe the people who REALLY want a 100% accurate kit are a small number of a small number... let's face it, automotive modeling ain't quite as popular as it once was.

Now, having said all of that, is it wrong to point out a kit's flaws? Nope. Isn't, wasn't, never will be. But on the flip side, it's not wrong to accept a kit's flaws. To be honest, I think people on both sides of the fence just need to agree to disagree and stop being such babies about the whole matter. 

Thank you Chuck, I think this sums it up. 

 

Please keep a copy of this for the next time this topic comes up (and you know it will).

[jbwelda]

some people can just suck the joy out of any and everything. personally its threads like this and the ones preceding it that cause me to question whether I want to continue to build model cars or just go with old man stamp collecting.

naw, better to just ignore, or better yet, poke at the haters. they got nothing better going on and are very sad people. sad clown town.

jb

 

[keyser]

Yes, just like your hateful multiple responses to showcar threads. 

Double standard much jb? Sad indeed. 

For that matter, your "they probably sell more kits than all the USA "manufacturers" (there are none, nothing is made in the USA except toothpicks and wood pellets evidently) put together. and to a much higher standard of detail for what is there" comment in a Cobra Daytona thread is pretty pathetic too. 

Edited September 6, 2015 by keyser
Wood comment

[blunc]

thread lock in 3...2...1....

come on ladies, try to stick to the thread topic and leave the personal attacks till you can see your prey face to face.

[keyser]

LOL. Nobody sees anything face to face here.  

I had to point out JB hypocrisy since that subtlety lost on most. 

At least a couple people congratulated the OP on getting his master cast by someone. Doubt the "it's good enough" gang can say that. 

[blunc]

actually, you didn't really HAVE to point out your observations of another forum member....since everyone's forum behavior is plainly evident.

I seem to recall that "personal attacks" can get you banned from the forum.

I really don't want anyone banned because there is usually something I can learn based on posted projects.

If you feel a personal attack coming on, take a moment to consider if your reply pertains to the thread topic (and not someone else behavior).

Your opinion on a thread topic is safe, your opinion on another forum member..not so safe.

[Eshaver]

Finially , I see SOMEONE here "Gets It " ! Uh huh, Hey Chuck, that lehgthy post "Nails"  me . Even when I'm scratch building my service stations , I have to realize some things simply arent't going to HAPPEN . At my age and nearly escaping death twice , I don't have tinme to sweat every rivett and every crease or charicter line . You foklks wanna know why I so seldom post here any longer ? Look at the Arguing the Gnashing ot teeth and the PUT DOWNS you run on kits , many are re releases dating to 1960 ! I'm DONE here , I have should made fresh coffee an hour ago .................. 

[detailstymied]

reminds me of the ron white gag. he was being thrown out of a bar and the police were called. his observation paraphrased "i had the right to remain silent, but not the ability".

[mike 51]

"...and nearly escaping death twice"  

 You didn't escape ..twice?  

 

.

 

Edited September 6, 2015 by mike 51

[Greg Myers]

  On 9/5/2015 at 10:21 PM, midnightprowler said:

Interesting selection in light of your flag. 

[afx]

I guess the point of my OP was that there has to be a minimum threshold of accuracy for a manufacturer’s kit.  Would I like every detail to be accurate – absolutely.  I suppose am more tolerant than some about smaller detail discrepancies but I can’t really understand how major body panel deficiencies can be acceptable.   

But why would a manufacturer not want feedback from the hard core consumers of their products?  I would think this would be nothing but beneficial even if a bit difficult to bare at times. It would help them in the decision making process of what compromises to allow to remain in the kit and which ones to invest in to correct.

[afx]

And thank you, Len and Christian.  The kit is HRM's Porsche 914/6GT.

[Ace-Garageguy]

Congrats on getting your 914 race car in series production. I watched your conversion process; nice work.

It would have been good if more of this thread had been devoted to a discussion of the concept of "a minimum threshold of accuracy for a manufacturer’s kit", as you say above, rather than primarily focusing on repeated attacks on those members who point out flaws that could have easily been avoided.

[b-body fan]

That is pretty darn cool they're going to produce your model!!!! Don't feel bad, I've noticed it doesn't take much to stir the pot on here sometimes. Often after a few posts the original topic is pretty well lost and the rants begin. People forget we all do this for different reasons. They also forget we don't all have to be like minded to be right. Some time ago I started a thread on a model rail road forum called "rivet counting or just having fun ". The same thing happened. I was just curious as to why and how fellow modelers enjoyed the hobby. A battle ensued. Live and learn I guess.

[keyser]

Nice Weber IDA's. Brad and Norm's Weber castings rock. Just need emulsion tubes and jets. 

914/6 GT was great race car, fun street cars. 

Pretty funny, I was gone for awhile, and same 'ol nonsense. 

If a business can't take criticism of any kind, or improve "how the model looks", not the micron measurements, it's a failed business.

Running away from a forum when FB, etc. are out there (the people that bring this up often don't usually have smart phones!!) is ludicrous

I'm going back to work on my sweet white Mono 1/24 Camaro...

 

 

[afx]

  On 9/7/2015 at 4:24 PM, Ace-Garageguy said:

Congrats on getting your 914 race car in series production. I watched your conversion process; nice work.

It would have been good if more of this thread had been devoted to a discussion of the concept of "a minimum threshold of accuracy for a manufacturer’s kit", as you say above, rather than primarily focusing on repeated attacks on those members who point out flaws that could have easily been avoided.

Agreed. Present a vigorous argument in defense of your point of view, but don't denigrate other posters. 

[kruleworld]

  On 9/5/2015 at 2:29 PM, afx said:

  I was very reluctant to agree to the use of my master for fear that the resin caster would face criticism for the short comings of my work.

I get that. thepartsbox is a small australian supplier that fills a niche of few australian-built cars in 1/25 scale. someone was bashing their work as 'complete BLAH_BLAH_BLAH_BLAH' when it was actually issue with just one or two body lines. i pointed out that it was only out by half a mm, but that didn't seem to matter to him.

  Quote

There has to be a balance between constructive criticism and nit-picking rivet counting bashing.

true, but getting things like the basic dimensions and shape should be a priority, like the issues pointed out with the revell 74 torino with the wonky sized roof/side-window. (any word if they fixed that?)