Making windows, clear styrene sheet or acetate?

[crowe-t]

What's better for making windows, clear styrene sheet or acetate?

I've had clear styrene(model car windows) get stress whitening when slightly bent.  

Will thin styrene sheet(.010") have the same problem with the stress whitening or am I better off getting some acetate?

[MrObsessive]

The .010 styrene sheet will give you more difficulties as it's more flexible than the thicker stuff. I highly recommend acetate, or what I look for when going to the craft store is "clear stencil sheet".

Be aware though that acetate only likes to be bent one way. It's great for flatter windshields with only slight curves, but if you're trying to replicate glass on cars with compound curves out of the late '50's/early '60's, you're gonna have great trouble in trying to get it to cooperate. 

Better to vacuform something like that if that's the case. 

EDIT: Here are a few pics of cars that had their glass replicated using clear stencil sheet.........

There are exceptions to the rules.........in the case of the glass on my '58 Chevy, I was able to use the acetate for its wraparound windshield. It only needed to bend one way, so that was not as fussy.

Something like this...............

Definitely MUST be vacuformed!

HTH!

Edited August 5, 2016 by MrObsessive

[crowe-t]

So acetate is tougher than the styrene?

I'm building a 1964 Cadillac ambulance using a Polar Lights Ecto-1 and a Jo-Han 1964 Cadillac Deville.  The Ecto-1 windshield is OK so I'll use it but the rest of the windows aren't so good and almost act as magnifiers.  I want to make the side and rear windows.  Most of the windows are flat that I'll be making and the rear window will have a very slight curve.  

The small side rear windows are curved.  The 2nd picture of the rear ambulance shows the small side rear windows.

Will clear styrene be better for making the curved small side rear windows? 

Edited August 5, 2016 by crowe-t

[MrObsessive]

No, I'd still use the acetate. That's a simple curve meaning it's not compound.........you shouldn't have any problem bending that. It's best to make some kind of template using perhaps a 3x5 card and then transfer that onto the acetate.

And yes, the acetate is a bit tougher as I've found it not to scratch so easily as styrene. IMO, the acetate reflects the light better giving the appearance of actual glass as opposed to styrene.

If you need any tips on holding the acetate in place, you can go here. Scroll down a bit, and you'll see what I did to the Turbine Car to get the glass to stay in place.

Edited August 5, 2016 by MrObsessive

[crowe-t]

What thickness should I get in the acetate?

[Pete J.]

Google PETG sheets for sale.  This is true thermoform clear plastic.  If I have a piece that I want to make.  I cut it to size and the use a heat gun to shape it over the original piece. As it cools, it will set to the shape you have given it.  Once done, I give it a coat of Future(now Pledge with Future shine) to take care of any small scratches. 

Edited August 5, 2016 by Pete J.

[MrObsessive]

What thickness should I get in the acetate?

IIRC, it comes in .010" where I get it at the craft shop.

[crowe-t]

Bill, Can I glue the acetate in with Formula 560 Canopy glue as I do with kit styrene windows?

Does acrylic paint, such as Testors Acryl clear, stick to the acetate?

I'll need to paint some stripes, using Testors Flat Clear Acryl on the windows as seen on the windows of the real ambulance in my post above.

Edited August 5, 2016 by crowe-t

[MrObsessive]

For perfectly flat areas, yes you can use that. However, acetate likes to stay one way and that is flat. I'd much rather use 5 min. epoxy to fight against it trying to go back to its natural state especially for slightly curved areas such as your small rear windows. To me, good glass in a car is just as important as a paint job. It's highly visible, and ill fitting glass is a major turn-off for me. 

BTW, that's an interesting project you've got going on! I've not seen anyone attempt that before!

[crowe-t]

Thanks Bill, for all the information!  I'll pick up some acetate.

Here's the link to my '64 Cadillac ambulance build thread.  I'm a bit further along and will post some more pictures soon.  There is a lot to work out with this build.  

http://www.modelcarsmag.com/forums/topic/113927-1964-cadillac-superior-coach-ambulance/?page=1 

[Pete J.]

Google PETG sheets for sale.  This is true thermoform clear plastic.  If I have a piece that I want to make.  I cut it to size and the use a heat gun to shape it over the original piece. As it cools, it will set to the shape you have given it.  Once done, I give it a coat of Future(now Pledge with Future shine) to take care of any small scratches. 

If you go to Granger you can get it as thin as .063" which is really easy to manipulate.  It is also cheaper, $3.10 for a square foot.  than what you get at the hobby shop.  You can buy as little as 1 12" X 12" sheet.  With shipping you may want to get 3 or 4 which would be a lifetime supply.  Here is the web site.  Oh, and Granger is a very well know and respected commercial tool and material supply house. https://www.grainger.com/product/GRAINGER-APPROVED-PETG-Sheet-Stock-WP143606/_/N-c1p?s_pp=false&picUrl=//static.grainger.com/rp/s/is/image/Grainger/1UNK3_AS01?$smthumb$#nav=%2Fproduct%2FGRAINGER-APPROVED-PETG-Sheet-Stock-WP143606%2F_%2FN-c1pZ1z0nsqj%3FR%3D1UTJ7%26_%3D1470421618139%26picUrl%3D%2F%2Fstatic.grainger.com%2Frp%2Fs%2Fis%2Fimage%2FGrainger%2F1UNK3_AS01%3F%24smthumb%24%26s_pp%3Dfalse

[PatW]

I buy a large tub of Fruit Yoghurt each week. It has one seal that you tear off made from very thin cooking type film. They also supply a clear acetate clip on lid to seal the top of the carton if you don't eat it all in one go. From that I cut out flat side windows which I attach with brush on clear (no.35 Humrol) or use the complete top to decant paint from a rattle can tin to paint with a brush to touch up small areas. 

[Snake45]

Clear plastic is where you find it. Last week I spotted a usably large clear plastic box top on the dining room table. It was from a box of Christmas cards that The Lovely Mrs. Snake was working on. When I asked, she gave it to me. I don't know if it's acetate or some kind of plastic, but it's very thin, very clear, and will make LOVELY vent windows. Been on a vent-window kick lately and have decided that I don't like looking at the thickness of them on my builds. I'm gonna start cutting them away from the main windshields and start substituting in this stuff.

[Scott Colmer]

I'm with Mr. Snake. I scavenge clear plastic wherever I can. Right now is the season for clear box covers. The plastic in new shirt colors works well too.

 

If you need a compound shape you can use the original kit glass and form it using heat. I tried using Evergreen clear plastic, but it is too touchy. In the pics below I used plastic taken from a box of christmas cards.

Step 1 - Secure your buck. That's what you are going to use to shape the windshield.

Step 2 - Heat the plastic over a flame until it sags a bit. You may waste some before you get the right softness.

Hosted on Fotki

Step 3 - Pull it over your buck.

Hosted on Fotki

Make a few copies and try to have at least two keepers in case you over trim one when you are fitting it.

Hosted on Fotki

I've also use this technique to make one-off pieces like this seat that needed to flex a bit to fit in the chassis.

Hosted on Fotki

Scott

Edited December 15, 2016 by Scott Colmer

[BigTallDad]

Rather than use a candle (which can deposit carbon soot on the plastic) why not build a small alcohol burner or use a soldering iron for heating the plastic?

[talon63]

I use an electric candle warmer. The surface can get up to 280 f, but it comes in handy for either melting small amounts of styrene (in a little pot I picked up in a BBQ kit) or for softening, I use a frame made from wire, lay the plastic over it suspended a bit above the surface and wait for the sag to start.

Edited December 15, 2016 by talon63

[BigTallDad]

I use an electric candle warmer. The surface can get up to 280 f, but it comes in handy for either melting small amounts of styrene (in a little pot I picked up in a BBQ kit) or for softening, I use a frame made from wire, lay the plastic over it suspended a bit above the surface and wait for the sag to start.

Good idea!

Is that anything like a warmer for coffee mugs? Sure sounds like it.

Edited December 15, 2016 by BigTallDad

[Scott Colmer]

Good upgrades - Ray and Allen!

[talon63]

Good idea!

Is that anything like a warmer for coffee mugs? Sure sounds like it.

It's probably the same device, surface area seems the same. I found it as a candle warmer for less than 10 bucks, and the little stainless pot and bbq brush set was around 7. For really small amounts I've fashioned little cups out of heavy duty tin foil with good results.

[Snake45]

Scott, great tutorial! I've been hearing about "heat and smash" in Model Airplane World for two or three decades but have never actually tried it myself. I do have a Mattel Vacuform which I've used occasionally for things but have never done car windows on it. I think the heat and smash might work better for that. I'm planning to try it soon, using the clear plastic from common 2-liter soda bottles. Been trying to work out a heat source.

[Scott Colmer]

Good luck with it, Snake. It's pretty easy. While I like the heating upgrades suggested above, I can say the open flame has worked well for me so far. 

[davysmodels]

Need to make a rear window for the AMT 1960 Mercury Hardtop. It has curves on the sides. I have .007 clear -lay film. Works great for simple front or flat windows.

Any suggestions for the Merc rear window. Thank You, larry 

[Beans]

In a previous life as a leather worker I found clear plastic they use for the little windows in wallets that works really well for scale models.  It is thicker than what you might find otherwise but flexible and will curve well.